Roe v Wade: US Supreme Court strikes down abortion rights https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61928898

Crikey!

The USSC, yesterday:

In the same week where the US Supreme Court voted 6-3 in favour of widening rights for Concealed Carry Weapons against the wishes of those states, we have another 6-3 vote that has no place in the 21st Century.

Funnily there is 6 republican nominated judges on the supreme court, and 3 democratic nominations, for judges who are meant to be making evidence based judgements, it comes up as 6-3 on almost every occasion there is a party lines case.

We bemoan Johnson and the tories a lot, but even they would struggle to do what the republicans can in the US, even when they’re not in power!

Depressing step backwards from a overtly religiously-extremist government?

Or an attempt to continue to produce an exploitable underclass when birth rates are falling?

Depends on your level of tinfoil.

Clarence Thomas also suggesting that legislation covering contraception, same sex relationships and same sex marriage should be ‘re-visited’.
That’s inviting a (series of) direct challenge(s) which, I guess, he hopes will progress through the judicial system to the SC.
Vote was 6 – 3 but don’t know who voted which way; guessing that trump’s three were with Thomas in the majority.
Talk about a great leap backwards…

“Home of the free”. Hmmm

Under his eye.

Turns out the USA wanted to be Iran all along. And it will be catching unless there is an effective resistance. Feudal theocracies, here we come.

America really is a crap hole

No rights for woman do with their bodies what they wish, but don’t you dare take that semi auto rifle out the hands of an inbred redneck

Depressing step backwards from a overtly religiously-extremist government?

Its a politically appointed Judiciary that is doing this, not the US government. Something which Conservative think tanks are keen to import to the UK.

The big problem with the USA, is the way it exports it’s political “morality” through trade deals. The reason much of the worlds drug policies mimics the USA’s is because the US wrote it into trade deals. I expect this medieval policy to be exported with similar zeal by the next republican government.

The US is as big if not bigger threat to the world as China and Russia, they just have different methods of damaging the world.

I expect this medieval policy to be exported with similar zeal by the next republican government.

It was written into foreign aid. No mention at all of abortion if you wanted any aid although I think Biden has dropped it now.
It is the one real achievement of Trumps although most of the heavy lifting was done by others. Stacking the supreme court with partisan nutcases for years to come unless the democrats accept its been corrupted and respond in kind.

What effect might the two recent SC decisions have on the next election? Will swing voters be unhappy about the decisions and turn to the Democrats, or (for reasons my brain can’t identify) turn to Republicans?

I am amazed how political the US judiciary appears to be. I’ve always thought the UK judges were fairly neutral, although Boris disagreed.

The Taliban would be proud with the USSC’s decision.

Certainly makes Australia look like a more attractive option for young, skilled brits to emigrate to.

I think that one nuance that is being missed is that this has removed federal power to the State level legislature. Which means that whilst regressive, loony states will act predictably, progressive states will actually strengthen abortion rights on the back of this.

The bigger story is that this is another huge step towards a fragmented and fractured USA, which may, in our life time, cease to exist in the way it does now. There are already two Americas, and the U in USA is looking more ironic than ever.

The stacking of the court to achieve this has been done by dubious methods too. This podcast covers that (and covers Roe v Wade in later episodes). https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/what-trump-can-teach-us-about-con-law/id1242537529?i=1000519278248

Democratic norms are being ignored, what are we slipping towards?

The crazy thing is that the clear majority of Americans believe abortions should be legal and there should be stricter gun controls

So much for democracy!

And what really worries is that the UK seems to be following in America’s footsteps

what are we slipping towards?

In the extreme – civil unrest?

It always amazes me that a nation with so many bright talented people spawns so many nut-jobs. And that the elected government are powerless to stop this.

I don’t think the UK is anywhere near (hopefully!). Religion just doesn’t have the same hold over people.

Religion just doesn’t have the same hold over people

It’s not necessarily religion, it’s people’s ability to harness it for the wrong things.  What seems to be happening is that we are getting better manipulating smaller and smaller demographics for one single goal.  I read somewhere that during the last US election rather than cut people up into male/female, young/old etc there was over 300 demographics that using things like Facebook they could individually be targeted.  Religion is just one (or several) of those now 🙁

Its a politically appointed Judiciary that is doing this, not the US government. Something which Conservative think tanks are keen to import to the UK.

They’ve been pretty open about it too.

There are already two Americas, and the U in USA is looking more ironic than ever.

My lad went to the World Scout Jamboree in America in 2019, and he was clear there were two distinct types of Americans, and he couldn’t see how the two could coexist

I think that one nuance that is being missed is that this has removed federal power to the State level legislature.

Correct. The USA is not one country. The whole idea is that only certain things are federal. All this does in respect of abortion rights is shift them to state level. Whatever the rights or wrongs you at least have the option of changing them at state level or moving to a state you like better.

I was once waiting outside a post office in San Diego to post maps when it opened. Two locals arrived one after the other. Turned out they knew each other. For the next 5 minutes they chatted casually about Satan, God, and the resurrection. America can be a strange place.

For the record I am pro abortion in some circumstances. Whether the rules are best set by 9 unelected judges or at state level where there is some chance of a democratic campaign to change the rules is a good question.

Under his eye.

Blessed be the fruit.

I don’t think the UK is anywhere near (hopefully!). Religion just doesn’t have the same hold over people.

So then you have to find something else to leverage for manipulation. 🙂

As I understand it, the Pilgrim Fathers weren’t forced to leave England because of religious intolerance towards them, it was because of their lack of tolerance towards other religious points of view, and that intolerance becomes ever more obvious with each passing year – The Christian Right in America is no different to the Taliban in Afghanistan, and its something to be feared as far as its increasing influence of state leaders around the world.

In my humble opinion.

Biden should stuff the supreme court. Trump played dirty along with the rest of the Republicans over this. Sod turn the other cheek.

Biden should stuff the supreme court.

It’s a bit late for that though. They are life long positions I understand, and Trump (or his puppet masters) appointed (relatively) young judges.

Thete is no constitutional limit on numbers. Appoint 6 young libetals

or at state level where there is some chance of a democratic campaign to change the rules is a good question

I’m all for devolving the decision making down to the most local level. How about leaving the decision down to each individual woman to make the difficult choice for themselves?

And anyway, why just mention the state level? The battle to decriminalise abortion is often a battle between state legislatures and county/city government. This decision will make it harder for local governments to protect women from overreaching state government.

Thete is no constitutional limit on numbers.

Ah, I was unaware of that. Could get a bit crowded though, if you start that particular arms race.

you at least have the option of changing them at state level or moving to a state you like better.

A fair old chunk of people who will need abortion won’t have that luxury at all, as well as not being able to afford to travel across one or possibly two states to get an abortion. This is just another “on yer bike” statement.

Indeed, the “option” to go out of state all depends on the power, wealth and control of each woman.

Indeed, the “option” to go out of state all depends on the power, wealth and control of each woman.

Ah, but that’s the American dream. A persons value is directly proportionate to their bank balance, with the usual modifiers of which genitalia or skin colour they possess being extremely important if that number is small, but less important if that number is large.

The abortion decision has been pushed down to State level, but the gun control decision has removed State controls.

V8ninety is very much correct here. This will further fragment the pro-life and pro-choice states. Think of US more like Europe than a single country where womens reproductive right can vary widely from (until recently) no abortion in Ireland to our progressive views. Essentially states have widely different policies on many things, healthcare, gun rights, taxation etc… it’s a great and terrible country at the same time…depending where you are!

Also looks like gay marriage is next in the sights.

the “option” to go out of state all depends on the power, wealth and control of each woman.

When the likes of Texas right to life set up websites to grass up women suspected of having an abortion the “option” becomes even more limited.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/07/texas-abortion-whistleblower-website-forced-offline

I’m all for devolving the decision making down to the most local level. How about leaving the decision down to each individual woman to make the difficult choice for themselves?

In theory yes. But are you OK with an abortion performed at 8 months?

It should also be noted that during Democratic presidencies, when family planning clinics tend to be better funded, there are far less terminations than when the republicans are in charge. Creating a caring and supportive environment for women to make decisions is pro life. The campaigns which hypocritically label themselves as “pro-life” are actually campaigns of hatred and death,

“Roe v Wade: US Supreme Court strikes down abortion rights https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61928898”

well no they didn’t. They said that the legality of abortion is state not federal. That means it is up to the individual states to choose.

well no they didn’t

Yes they did, if it is a right as it was before today, the individual states can’t legislate that right away, the SC took away that right.

What a desperately backward country.

In theory yes. But are you OK with an abortion performed at 8 months?

Except that’s so absolutely, vanishingly aware as to basically not be a thing and is just dog whistle language. The vast, vast majority of abortions happen <13weeks gestation, with rare late term abortions happening between 13 and 24weeks. Later than that are incredibly rare, and will most likely be because of medical emergencies.