…and it wasn’t there.

A thread to express concern and speculate about the deteriorating situation on Ukraine’s borders.

———-
[Mod] Ukraine thread has been reopened, this one will now be closed.

What is this Ukraine you talk of?

Do you mean West Russia?

Yeah, the thing is, there really should be a thread on this. It might be something of huge concern soon (even more so than now) though I hope not!

However, and I have much respect for the posters in that thread on both sides of the debate, it did become all about “winning the argument” more than anything. Then things went downhill from there and the mods rightly closed it.

I suspect at least a few of the posters in the thread were probably glad it was closed in the end as there had to be some “overspill” into their actual lives. It was getting pretty heated by stw standards.

Is it posturing on Putin’s part? Or is he seriously going to risk a finger wagging from the West if he does invade?

There’s obviously some form of underlying reason that’s not the headlines, but that’s all that’s reported on MSM.

Not firing up an argument but I don’t know enough about the politics I that part of the world. Or is it not as simple as Putin flexing his muscles?

What if Russia wins?

Ukraine has loads of important natural resources apparently (surprise!) and is strategically v crucial for gas pipelines. Nato has been encroaching on Russia/former soviet states but Russia are also ****s. That’s my not very informed take on it anyway.

Horrible fact if he takes Ukraine he will control 25% of the worlds grain production.
Rubbish start to the year for the Russian and Ukraine people.
A dictators last stand?

I think grum and pk13 sum up my worries. I think it’s a dictator trying to create a legacy of greater Russia.

The parallels with Germany annexing other countries ahead of WW2 are obvious.

It’s not NATOs role to physically defend Ukraine, to do so gives Russia the justification to reply by attacking NATO countries and properly starting WW3.

I feel terribly guilty that sacrificing Ukraine seems the least worst option for the West at this time, knowing that it probably won’t be the last place to face this kind of Russian aggression.

Funnily enough, my mind overthinking all this is partly why I’m online when I should be asleep

I thought the Russian forces were withdrawing and heading back to their bases in Russia. At least, that’s what RT said a couple of days ago. They’d know, surely.

Rule#1 please

Ukraine are managing the situation with more dignity than some.

I think it’s a dictator trying to create a legacy of greater Russia.

Hasn’t that been the case throughout history. Russia, Britain, Germany and going back Greece, France, Assyrian, Turkish, etc etc

In fact its quite a list. Running into hundreds, from 4500BC right up to the Nazis in 1933.

So I don’t think it’s ever going to end. there will always be someone who sees their country as the one which should run the show, who knows best. But history has shown they never last.

Some like the first Mexican empire only lasted 2 years, while others like Sumeria lasted 2600 years.

More transparent American propaganda, everyone knows there is no covid in Russia, zero. On top of that, those Russian troops all went back to Russia last week.

COVID is ripping through the units stationed in Belarus. Official stats have case numbers breaking all records. Army units have *really* high numbers at all ranks & they infecting the locals. Many soldiers are treated in field hospitals (tents?) as local facilities are full 2/9

— Katsiaryna Shmatsina (@kshmatsina) February 18, 2022

I thought the Ukrainian Presidents speech was worth a listen,

I thought the Ukrainian Presidents speech was worth a listen,

He’s obviously just a NATO imperialist lackey running dog of the people-eaters, fed on scraps of human flesh.

Just when you thought one thread couldn’t get any sillier.

In steps Thols into the new thread.

🙂

Thread locked in 5,4,3….

Rinse and repeat.
Some postets on here think they have god given right to correct others with the superior skills of debating.
You don’t
It’s like the blind leading the blind into a self fulfilling echo chamber of dribble.

@pk13. That’s why I gave up on the previous thread. Every time I thought of posting a question, they may well have been very simple questions, the thread turned an obscure corner followed by bickering and point scoring.

Very much like trying to negotiate with a dictator I suppose.

Growing up in Northern Ireland in the 70’s and 80’s you learn not to enter into these debates unless you’re vested/immersed/or professionally / academically involved. Otherwise what you add is ill informed subjective piffle and unhelpful.

Unfortunately piffle has proliferated since the dawn of the internet. Why not spend time reading good quality resources on the background history instead of spaffing sploddle on internet forum threads?

I’m happy for us to have an informative thread, but FFS can there be no bickering or snide comments of a personal nature please.

@waderider

That’s why I asked an ill informed question. I’m not an academic or professional, I don’t know what is good quality resources or internet spaffle.

Well I dont think anyone here can have an opinion on this crisis one way or the other beyond saying I hope nothing happens.

What the Russians or the Ukrainians choose to do can only be speculated upon, and that on here thus far hasn’t proceeded well.

So like everyone else, I hope they sort this mess out diplomatically.

There’s a thesis that WW1 and WW2 were essentially the same conflict ( the 30 year European civil war) just with slightly different alliances. Post WW2 the threat of MAD and the consensus drawn from the experiences of the people that had to fight those conflicts meant that we’ve had 70 without Europe tearing itself apart.
The problem is that, according to the thesis, the predominant underlying cause of tension behind both WWs, – huge, competing economies seeking hegemony over Europe – has never gone away ( and never will) and now it’s got the monkeys of post imperialism, post industrialisation, virulent Nationalism and the loss of those voices from both WWs on its back.
I personally feel that the threat of MAD will stop this spilling into a wider conflict but you’re never going to stop the root cause as there are just too many huge powers in Europe all in direct conflict over the same markets and resources.

Ukraine

We’ve given a break to some of the troublesome members. So we’ve reopened the original thread.