Jeremy Corbyn

You think that a couple of decades of the Tories being allowed to do what they like, totally unopposed, will ultimately be beneficial to the people the labour party are meant to represent?

Which bit specifically? When they reintroduce workhouses? Or when they legalise peasant hunting?

binners you keep asking questions - you never answered the one about the alternative. Are you an Owen Smith supporter? Do you believe he has a significantly more credible chance of wining a general election than Corbyn?

You seem to hate Blair but want another Blair to lead the party. 😕

Are you an Owen Smith supporter? Do you believe he has a significantly more credible chance of wining a general election than Corbyn?

Does anyone really think that Owen is anything but a fall guy to take the heat until David M can get reelected to Parliament? (the candidate they would have won the last election with if the loonies in the unions hadn't elbowed his brother into place)

Do you believe he has a significantly more credible chance of wining a general election than Corbyn?

I'd say pretty much anyone has more chance of winning a general election than Jeremy Corbyn. Not least because as we've seen shown by the absolutely bonkers attitudes of his supporters, winning a general election doesn't seem to be a particular concern of his. Not a priority. Not for a while at least.

Call me old fashioned, but I'd like the leader of a political party, particularly the one I'm a member of, to have more than a passing interest in not handing a permanent electoral hegemony to the Tories

Maybe that's just me though?

David M ain't the answer to Labours problems. TBH the political landscape will be so changed by the time Labour even get close to power, it's irrelevant whether Owen is any good, as he'll be caretaker anyway. Labour have to be looking to 2025, unless something weird happens between now and then.

Do you believe he has a significantly more credible chance of wining a general election than Corbyn?

Is he competent, able to motivate a shadow cabinet and not accidentally sack them at random or inspire them to all quit? Can he avoid publicity disasters like traingate? Then he can certainly be in with a shout.

...agree with much of what's above. The best we can hope for from this grim pass, and the best Smith could do, is be a focus to hold the party together rather than doing a 'son of SDP'. If we bugger off then that it really is unopposed Tories forever plus a few fun demos to go on.

So the plan is keep putting people up against Corb until one wins, or someone competent comes along from his wing of the party to replace him, it was Corbyn who proposed that Labour should hold annual leadership elections, after all.

grum - Member

Do you believe he has a significantly more credible chance of wining a general election than Corbyn?

I think you are pissing in the wind if you are attempting to get a sensible comment from binners.

binners - Member

Rolf Harris would have more chance of winning a general election than Corbyn.

Posted 1 month ago

You think that a couple of decades of the Tories being allowed to do what they like, totally unopposed, will ultimately be beneficial to the people the labour party are meant to represent?

Of course not, but then I never thought I'd see a labour government/shadow cabinet supporting tuition fees, benefits cuts, privatisation and outsourcing of the NHS, workfare, deregulation of the financial industry, tax loopholes for billionaires, a two-tier education system etc. (and I didn't even mention the war!)

Here's a question, since Corbyn became leader, do you think the tories have moved more to the right or the left?

BTW, just to be clear, I'm not a Corbyn supporter (this time) 😉

Have we got to the stage where people are trawling back through old posts to score points yet?

Morning Comrade!

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I think Ernie's gone mad Flashy. He's been trawling my posts for the drivel I wrote a year ago to quote back at me. I don't know if he went mad before, or the madness is a direct result of this. Its a chicken and egg situation. I wouldn't wish that on anyone! 😀

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Have we got to the stage where people are trawling back through old posts to score points?

Well it's something which you have been doing for quite a while Flashheart. Would you like me to trawl back and find a few examples ?

ctk - Member
PR referendum aswell! Dave bloody loved them!

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO #

No he didnt. He gave us an AV referendum which nobody asked for knowing full well he could win it (rather than PR in which victory was less assured).

On trains - yes renationalising is going to cripple us. Look at the abject failure that was East Coast and how it twice had to be bailed out by private operators. I got that the right way round didn't I?

And Jamba, Branson didnt't take the ECML for profit, of course. You crack me up. I suppose the small matter of having a monopoly on long distance rail isnt going to earn him anything. You are aware that Virgin is only a brand and the companies are all completely different entities with differing degrees of ownership right?

THM - did you honestly just call Scotland sectarian? Truly awful choice of owrds, if they were deliberate then congrats, I think you just got ****er of the week.

binners - Member

I think Ernie's gone mad Flashy. He's been trawling my posts for the drivel I wrote a year ago to quote back at me.

Well as you can see I don't need go back that far to find drivel which you wrote, unsurprisingly. The example above was a month ago, although I'm sure I could find drivel which you wrote yesterday.

Me reminding you what you wrote is madness, whilst you describing your own posts as drivel is obviously completely sane ! 🙂

Here's a question, since Corbyn became leader, do you think the tories have moved more to the right or the left?

Neither really. Its that centre ground thing. The one that wins elections. Even though nobody actually knows what our new PM is going to do. I suspect its just more of the same really. Meet the new boss.... same as the old boss...

The fact of the matter is though, she can do what she likes. Its not like there's an opposition worthy of the name to frustrate her. Too busy pulling daft stunts in train corridors

Neither really. Its that centre ground thing. The one that wins elections.

Well I'd argue that they've moved to the left under May. I'm sure we can agree though that they haven't moved to the right? The centre ground is a very narrow, constrained place. If as you say a party only has a chance of winning power by occupying this, then surely it follows that there's never going to be much difference between them.

The fact of the matter is though, she can do what she likes.

No she can't. She's still got to occupy that hallowed centre ground you talk about. If she leaves it, someone else will step in.

binners - Member

"Here's a question, since Corbyn became leader, do you think the tories have moved more to the right or the left?"

Neither really. Its that centre ground thing. The one that wins elections. Even though nobody actually knows what our new PM is going to do.

And there you go again completely contradicting yourself. A while ago according to you the Tories were going to "take a torch to workers rights", just to remind you :

binners - Member

Because they're awful middle class lefties, who will stand by and moan about equal rights for one-armed, free range, organic hermaphrodite marriage, while the Tory party take a torch to workers rights
They are the very worst human beings on the planet

Now "nobody actually knows" what the Tories will do. Although you tell us that the Tories occupy the "centre ground", which according to you is where the Labour Party should be - despite telling us that you are not opposed Corbyn's policies (just to add to your contradictions).

So what exactly is your problem binners, apart from hating everything? You think the country should be led by a party of the centre ground. According to you the Tories now occupy the centre ground and Labour doesn't. Surely it isn't difficult for you to decide who to vote for.

Obviously you hate the Tories but then you are always going to hate whoever you vote for.

Well I'd argue that they've moved to the left under May.

Any evidence of that? She's not done owt yet.

Her problem is that she has a tiny majority. An the more right wing lunatic fringe of here party are feeling massively enboldened by their 'victory' in the referendum, and the fact they've seen off a leader they always regarded as a namby-pamby liberal.

They've shown themselves to be rebellious in the past, and given how dependent she is on them with such a slim majority, I can only see things gong in one direction. And it aint left.

The perfect opportunity for a more centrist opposition to take advantage of this.

Oh... bugger.....

She's not done owt yet.

Agreed - she's certainly made some extremely 'tanks on the lawn' statements indicating nomination of the centre ground, but I agree done nothing yet.

For what it's worth, If I were her I would drop the bedroom tax, more hassle than it's worth for the value, and drop the planned ESA WRAG cut, same reason. Would change press coverage overnight

And there you go again completely contradicting yourself. A while ago according to you the Tories were going to "take a torch to workers rights

when you look at who they've put in charge of negotiating Brexit (I hate that word) - Liam Fox, David Davis - you think that getting rid of the EU workers protections isn't right at the very top of their 'to do' list? What do you think this 'red tape' they so fervently wanted to get rid of consists of exactly?

That's why right now, more than ever, we need a proper, effective labour party, not a sixth form protest group

binners - Member

you think that getting rid of the EU workers protections isn't right at the very top of their 'to do' list?

Well make your mind up ffs. 37 minutes ago you said [i]"nobody actually knows what our new PM is going to do"[/i] now you are asking what I think is [i]"at the very top of their 'to do' list"[/i]

You understand how politics works, right comrade? Surely even a Marxist understands the basic functionality of a parliamentary system?

Maybe not....

She has a majority of 12. What she wants to do is one thing. What her party will allow her to do/demand that she does is another thing entirely. Ask John Major. And the same 'Bastards' that made his life a misery are feeling rather full of themselves right now, and know the power they have

They're also very right wing.

You see this is what the labour party should be worried about right now. Not sitting in train corridors, and chanting kumbyaaaa in the common room

Any evidence of that? She's not done owt yet.

None at all. Just first impression based on her statements and cabinet appointments. Of course it could be empty rhetoric, after all empty rhetoric and soundbites are the modus operandi of the centre ground. As for the tory right, they've been given control of their cause-celebre, I doubt they'll be putting their heads above the parapet for quite some time. Why would they?

I'm much less fearful of what May and Hammond might do than I was with Cameron and Osborne. And besides, they're going to be so occupied with the brexit shambles that I doubt they'll have much time for anything else.

binners - Member

You understand how politics works, right comrade?

I don't understand how your head works.

You claim nobody actually knows what the Tories will do and then half an hour later claim that it's obvious what is at the top of their 'to do list'.

You can't seem to make your mind up about anything. Even from one hour to the next, never mind one year to the next.

they're going to be so occupied with the brexit shambles that I doubt they'll have much time for anything else.

The 'Brexit Shambles' offers the right wing of the Tory party an opportunity they've dreamed of for decades. A 'Year Zero' scenario where they get to scrap all EU workers protections, social security provision, environmental controls, and all manner of other stuff, and start with a clean sheet of paper to re-write the lot.

Think that's going to end well for your average bloke on the street?

Anyone heard anything from the labour party regarding any of this?

No... me neither....

Theresa May may not want to do this. Who knows? But the fact that she's appointed who she has to oversee negotiations doesn't bode well. Seems she's well aware she can easily be held hostage by the right wng loons on her backbenches so she's letting them have what they always wanted. The above....

Comrade - like most Corbynites/Momentum loons/raving Marxist/Trots - you seem considerably more intent on pouring scorn on people like me, who are nominally on the same side as you, than on anything the Tories are doing, or are going to do.

How do you see Theresa's agenda panning out then? What do you think the outcome of Brexit negotiations will be? Think [url= https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10213/liam_fox/north_somerset ]Liam Fox[/url] has your best interests at heart? Do you even care?

Feel free to enlighten us all comrade....

Rolf Harris would have more chance of winning a general election than Corbyn.

Sadly, this was a sensible statement. That is exactly the point many of us are trying to make Ernie.

Junky if Corbyn cannot stand up to the debate (or coup if you like) within his party then he has zero chance of doing so against the onslaught that will come during a General Election. So far he has shown quite clearly what we've been saying, he has too little ability and far too many skeletons in his closet.

IMO there will not be an SDP style breakaway, nor indeed a radical left breakaway as we already have the SWP. Both sides are fighting for control of the Labour Party as that's the organisation with the rescources to fight a General Election. Momentum/SWP/AWP none have the rescources or organisation to fight a General Election so they are trying to take over the Labour Party. Like I said.

Cuckoo.Cuckoo.

binners - Member

you seem considerably more [b]intent on pouring scorn[/b] on people like me

[u]YOU[/u] are accusing people of pouring scorn ?!?!?.........and after calling me a "raving Marxist/Trot" in the same sentence !!!!!

The beauty of it all is that I have no doubt that you are blissfully unaware of your own hypocrisy and contradictions 😆

The 'Brexit Shambles' offers the right wing of the Tory party an opportunity they've dreamed of for decades.

Prove that they were talking bllx on Europe?

May has placed the Tories firmly in the middle ground (surprising some), given the Brexit BSers enough rope to hang themselves on and is no doubt enjoying the Labour panto like the rest of us.

She probably cant believe her luck.

Binns and Ernie - careful, you are sounding like a Labour Party meeting.

How would you know what a Labour Party meeting sounds like ?

No comment to make on the issues raised then Comrade? No opinions on that?

Its almost like... a protest group. A totally ineffectual self-absorbed protest group....

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jambalaya - Member

"Rolf Harris would have more chance of winning a general election than Corbyn".

Sadly, this was a sensible statement.

Despite making the comment himself binners today described it as "drivel".

But you think it's "sensible"......righty-O.

I feel as if I've just walked into a a comedy script.

I feel as if I've just walked into a a comedy script.

we all have ....and plenty to come....

Ok crap as an opposition but bloody entertaining otherwise. Whats the expression? You couldn't make it up.

A bargain for only £25

...on which note, has the conference been done yet?

Some on NEC forced and passed a surprise vote - when a large number of NEC members had left and that Iain McNicol had tried and failed to get ruled out of order - to boycott G4S because of its dealings with Israel.

GMB’s gen sec Tim Roache said his union would picket the Lab conference if Showsec won the contract, forcing Labour MPs and members either to cross a picket line or not attend: a major Labour-affiliated union picketing the labour party conference.

McCluskey says the whole thing would then be cancelled (revenge on McNichol for stopping Jeremy's mates from voting for him?): “It is the responsibility of the general secretary of the Labour party, Iain McNicol, to implement decisions or to deal with any problems that may arise,” “I am astonished that we are only four to five weeks to conference and that he has not done so.”

Satire is dead.

If the conference does get cancelled because Labour can't organise an argument in a seaside town then at least there'll be plenty of free seats on the train to Blackpool and no one will need to make an arse of themselves on the floor.

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[i]Comrade - like most Corbynites/Momentum loons/raving Marxist/Trots - you seem considerably more intent on pouring scorn on people like me, who are nominally on the same side as you, than on anything the Tories are doing, or are going to do.[/i]

@binners - you write that but at the same time seem to prefer this in-party squabbling than using your time by being critical of the opposition.

For example. A couple of weeks ago I started the Theresa May thread for the sole purpose of hoping to provide a platform for people to be critical/debate the Tories and their policies. Didn't last though. People seems more focused on in-party squabbling than attacking the opposition.

Nifan and co must be giggling hard because they keep stoking this thread and you react to it. You can hardly call Corbyn a weak opposition if you cannot demonstrate a strong one yourself...

Edit: I should note this is directed at all of us in oppostion to the Tories

(random stat) email from my union today:

Over 20,000 members participated in a consultation to inform their nomination of Labour leader. The consultation saw 58.1% of members who voted indicating that the Committee should nominate Jeremy Corbyn and 41.9% for Owen Smith.

fairly solidly pro-Jez. Wonder how much there was a degree of self-selection though...?

For example. A couple of weeks ago I started the Theresa May thread for the sole purpose of hoping to provide a platform for people to be critical/debate the Tories and their policies.

We can resurrect that when she's been in the job for a bit. Her policies/priorities are quite simple, implement the manifesto and get Brexit done. The reality is the Labour leadership election is much more interesting not least as its summer recess.

@john yes I saw all of this re: the security. Really sticking it to Israel cancelling your own conference eh ?

@binners - you write that but at the same time seem to prefer this in-party squabbling than using your time by being critical of the opposition.

For example. A couple of weeks ago I started the Theresa May thread for the sole purpose of hoping to provide a platform for people to be critical/debate the Tories and their policies. Didn't last though. People seems more focused on in-party squabbling than attacking the opposition

Much as we might want it to (or not), posting on STW is never going to offer effective opposition to the government. Also I might break my keyboard.

I've posted a bit on this thread because there is actually a mix of pro and anti Corbyn views, which might be reflected in people who have a quick look at the thread, some of whom might have a vote (I could be wrong about this, but hey...)

Most other places I know tend to be entirely pro or entirely anti Corbyn, so there's not much point joining 'discussion'.

@jambayla....great demonstration of the point I'm trying to make....cheers. 😀

so there's not much point joining 'discussion'.

You'll do well to weed out any discussion from the noise on this thread 🙂

I hadn't really thought about the party conference. I'd imagine its going to dissolve into a level of farce that Amando Illucianelli could never possibly have scripted in the most acid-crazed version of the Thick of It.

It will literally be like watching a car crash. Involving an Austin Allegro. A brown one.

Presuming its not canceled of course

For example. A couple of weeks ago I started the Theresa May thread for the sole purpose of hoping to provide a platform for people to be critical/debate the Tories and their policies. Didn't last though.

Dont be hard on yourself, EVB, the raw material is nowhere near as funny

We did get to learn about the importance of the H tough, so you efforts were worthwhile

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