I still can’t make sense of dropbars off road

As always I’m trying to squeeze too many disciplines out of the same bike, and handlebars are proving tricky.

I’ve got an Arkose which serves as my do-almost-anything bike, but even with the big flared Ritchey drops on it, for anything bar the smoothest off offroad trails I’d much rather have flat bars.

I realise for a proper offroad drop-bar setup you need the drops set to about the height you’d normally have flat bars, but to my mind that then defeats most of the on-road benefits of both drops and hoods (both too high). Right now my drops feel too low offroad and too high on.

What makes more sense to me is to get a flat bar with some mini-aero bars like these, or something like the Velo Crazy or Koga Satori Denham bars.

Is there anything I’m missing here or are others in the same boat?

Not holding the handlebars properly?

Watch out for walls or pot holes.

I had inboard mounted bar ends on flat bars which were good for my commute when I wanted to be a little more aerodynamic. Closer to the stem than in your photo though. And only any good on long stretches with a good surface and no need to be near the brakes.

I’ve the Velo Orange Crazy Bars on the Solaris. They might work on the Arkose, just make sure you angle them down a few degrees to find the most comfortable position.

Compromise in not being ideal for everything shocker 🙂

Yeah, drop bars pretty much suck for challenging off-road. But they’re great for tarmac and gravel and suchlike. Obviously there are people who are happy riding drop bars on gnarlier stuff than you or I might be, but even John Tomac would admit that flat bars are better suited to MTBing.

The halfway house bars are a halfway house. Kind of ok at both jobs but whether you get on with the compromise is up to you. Personally I’ve not really got on with them, I’d rather put up with either drops or flats being sub-optimal for parts of a ride than put up with a compromise bar being sub-optimal all the time, but that’s me, and maybe I just haven’t tried my Goldilocks bar yet.

If I found myself feeling compromise-curious again I’d probably try the Denhams.

I was looking at my singlespeed MTB the other day and noticed that bar ends would fit between the brake levers and grips and would end up roughly as far apart as the hoods on a road bike. Might try it if I get bored 🙂

for anything bar the smoothest off offroad trails I’d much rather have flat bars.

Hit the nail on the head.

They’re far better than people give them credit for, but they’re not meant to be better! I use my CX bike(s) for “round the edge of a field” type XC and into the Chilterns where being able to do a 50mile+ loop from my door on a variety of trails trumps either having to get in the car or pootle round the same trails every time. A 50mile range in a (long) evening means anything within ~20miles radius is rideable.

I’ve ridden Swinley on a CX bike, it’s doable, but it’s sketchy as hell on the fast downhills!

Flat bar + aero bars would achieve a similar outcome with more variance, you’d be even faster on road, and faster on technical stuff, with maybe a slight penalty on non technical stuff like fire roads and back lanes where it’s too sketchy to be on the aero bars.

Compromise in not being ideal for everything shocker

The thing is I don’t think the compromise with bars is inevitable. With tyres it obviously is: if I want grip I have to sacrifice rolling resistance.

With bars though, there’s no reason something with a nice wide-high position, and nice narrow-long/low position couldn’t exist, with brakes in reach from both. It would just require a design something along the lines of the picture I posted, and possibly a totally new design of shifters/brake levers to match.

Like imagine if hydro levers had two blades, and the second went vertically up underneath the mini aerobars on the Koga things above, like tri levers. That’d be sweet.

Flat bar + aero bars would achieve a similar outcome with more variance, you’d be even faster on road, and faster on technical stuff, with maybe a slight penalty on non technical stuff like fire roads and back lanes where it’s too sketchy to be on the aero bars.

That may actually be better for UK ‘gravel’ riding, if it makes sense to call it that. Or at least for the riding I often do, which involves 10-20 mile road slogs linking up rocky and rutted old moorland tracks.

I did a 100 mile loop last weekend that was around 50% tarmac, 30% cycle track and 20% very rough track with boulders and rock. That’s when compromise matters. I’ve done the “flats with aero bars” thing and it was OK but it’s never my first choice.

I also enjoy riding rough terrain with drops (Woodchippers in my case), partly because it’s an added challenge. I could take my FS and flatten it all out if all I wanted was an easy ride.

That may actually be better for UK ‘gravel’ riding, if it makes sense to call it that.

I don’t think my gravel riding is the same as your gravel riding and every time we do this thread folk chip in with all the gravel riding in their area. Maybe you just need to travel to try it.

As we say in @ukgravelcollective there are #norules so go with a flat bar. It’s more about getting out and enjoying the ride than how the look compares to convention. I’ve got flat bars and bar ends on my #fakegravelbike and it’s SS too.
Just go ride

Just go ride

This I can wholeheartedly agree with. If you don’t get on with drops don’t use them. Just get out and ride what feels good to you

I like the drop bar position on my gravel bike, wider and higher than a normal road riding position but still lower than my MTB. I do get forearm pain if I get rattled around a lot offroad or try drops on it – I’m sure its partly poor technique but I definitely find it easier to absorb impacts on flat bars.

As we say in @ukgravelcollective there are #norules so go with a flat bar. It’s more about getting out and enjoying the ride than how the look compares to convention.

I’m not trying to follow rules here… I admit to having aesthetic preference when building a bike, but this question isn’t about that, it’s about having a set up that feels good on the sort of rides I do, which are often very mixed. The whole point of having an all-road kind of bike for me is so I can ride from the doorstep and get more time on the bike than in the car or train. But I want to still be efficient on the road so I can get to the best trails without being knackered.

I’ve compromised my drops to be more aero, because that bike gets used for mixed riding and less gnar.

Definitely flats for gnar, but the I’d want suspension and bigger tyres too, so it’s just an MTB.

Jones Loops / On-Ones are a good compromise. I always liked the inboard bar-end set up for MTB touring, similar to what those Koga bars offer, Mike Hall set the TDR record with that rather than aero bars. All the benefits of a flat MTB bar with a narrower road hoods position when needed.

Like imagine if hydro levers had two blades, and the second went vertically up underneath the mini aerobars on the Koga things above, like tri levers. That’d be sweet.

Just go ride

Yep. Was riding a fixed gear bike with drops for last few years on gravel and a bit of off road and I enjoyed it. Now riding a slack hardtail for off road and a bit of gravel and I am enjoying that.
I just enjoy riding bikes and ride whatever I have and don’t worry about any compromises.

I think a huge part of it is bar height. On my Croix De Fer I often feel out of my comfort zone on the drops on steep and bumpy stuff, whereas on my Vagabond they feel perfectly natural on that same terrain.

A handlebar is just a curly or straight tube for controlling the bike. It really doesn’t matter on a gravel bike what shape it is so long as it is comfortable.

A gravel bike is not intended for peletons or time trials on the road, and nor is it intended for gnar heroics offroad, its purpose is to get you places, not get KoMs. So just fit what works for you.

For me a dropbar works, but I set up like a 1950s touring/randonneur bike, not a racer. However I prefer mtb brakes so I’m just as likely to swap to a mtb bar if I’m going somewhere steep.

I was thinking about this today riding my Arkose down a steep rutted stony single-track off the downs. It was slow and not a huge deal of fun.

But I actually reckon drop bars are fantastic for techy off-road. I’ve never been a fan of ultra wide flat bars and drops feel natural to me. I like the security in the drop and love descending at speed on or off road using them

Problem is that thin carbon forks, no suspension and narrow 40mm tyres aren’t actually that great for anything but…gravel.

Don’t conflate a bike not that suitable for the conditions with the bars. I reckon a short travel xc 29er on drops with 2.0 speedy tyres would be my idea of a UK gravel bike

Hmm, so there’s no solution to this yet it seems.

Perhaps I’ll try the flat bar, inner bar end thing, while I await a less ridiculous version of these:

https://www.instructables.com/id/road-bike-handlebar-modification-mtb-hand-position/

It just takes commitment (and god-like bike skills).

I actually tried riding a tricky technical descent on a hybrid MTB with drop bars once having seen a CX guy do something similar when he was coaching his kid around an XC race course. Jesus Christ, that left me in no doubt about how low on the bike skills ladder I am.

Do the 3 Peaks CX. I found that chicken levers helped massively.

If they are good enough for Rob Jebb they are good enough for me.

One advantage the old bikes had was that it was a matter of seconds to raise or lower the bars because they had quill stems.

So not only did dropbars give you a few different hand positions, but you had the further option of adjusting the height.

Want to be full on aero on the boring road, stem right down. Get to the good stuff, raise the bars.

But I want to still be efficient on the road so I can get to the best trails without being knackered.

No one was ever knackered because they used flat bars.

No, but drops are definitely worth a couple of gears of free speed. Not enough to knacker you on its own but does make covering distances a bit more viable and entertaining.

A gravel bike is not intended for peletons or time trials on the road, and nor is it intended for gnar heroics offroad, its purpose is to get you places, not get KoMs. So just fit what works for you.

That’s fine, but not everyone bought a hybrid for bimbling 😉

Have a foot in this camp for some time now. Similar to you OP I like to ride to the trails and also sometimes like to tour/bikepack, setup camp and then of course go off-piste with the same bike. It satisfies/frustrates some utilitarian streak that also sees me obsessing over tents, lights, footwear, kit-bags and multitools 😜

Cut teeth on 1980s steel road bike. Then bought steel ATB. Then alu FS MTB. By the time I’d reached my mid-twenties it became apparent that the ATB had served my type of cycling best of all. Sturdy and simple, with some capacity for woodland/moorland shenanigans without killing myself or feeling too beaten up.

Off-road bike designs have moved on a lot in many ways since the 1990s of course yet ATB DNA lives on with bikes/frames from Surly, Genesis, Swift, Jones etc.

I stuck with hardtail and rigid mountain bikes until recently buying a Genesis Vagabond which is currently ‘about right’ for that type of riding but yes the bars could be wider and I just fitted a pair of inline top-mount levers for scrubbing soeed. I can actually lock the back wheel with one or two fingers on the lever, although the front is strictly for scrubbing speed. Perfect for bimbling on the tops and in traffic, but for a workout offroad it’s like wrestling narrow fixie bars as I guessed – it proves out that covering brakes from the drops are the only option at speed when on trails/offroad descents

I wonder if cross top levers might work for you on much wider, shallower drops, obviously clamped further outboard and taped either side, not near the stem as per mine?

Early days for me with this new dropbar offroad business and still not convinced I didn’t enjoy Mary bars more. The most comfortable all-round option I chanced upon were wide risers with Procraft XL bar-ends for long road stretches. Bonus was the bar-ends were light and could be removed and stowed in backpack in a minute if the trail got tight and likely to snag. It was almost like having transformable touring/butterfly/MTB bars.

Those bar(gainous)-ends:

Procraft iGrip large

*safety note – if I took them out for ride in the woods the bars then didn’t have endcaps but I made sure the ends were effectively covered by lock-on (Ergo) grips.

I’ve toyed with the idea of inboard bar ends (although not for an aero position) as I often find myself holding the bar inboard of the controls at times and I’ve just stumbled across the Farr Bar[/url] which looks interesting; they’re carbon but I’d hope that they’d also take standard bar ends.

They look like they might be pricey though.

— Edit —

Oooh, some interesting stuff at Riddfarr.com[/url] including this –

Early days for me with this new dropbar offroad business and still not convinced I didn’t enjoy Mary bars more.

That’s what I’m thinking. I really liked upside down Mary’s on the CDF hack I once had.

I think if I could combine that with some mini aero bars like in the riddfarr like you’ve posted PJay, I’ll be pretty happy on road and off, until something better comes along.

And the other thing I realised this morning while changing a brake cable on my drops, I f**king hate simple maintenance tasks with drop bars…

And the other thing I realised this morning while changing a brake cable on my drops, I f**king hate simple maintenance tasks with drop bars…

Leave outer cables on? 😉

Fitting those cross top levers was not much faff at all tbh, just pulled out old inner cables, offered up lever clamps then snipped the extant/fitted outers in situ, clamped the new levers then threaded new inner cables. Also tightened up and tidied the bar tape which took a few mins.

Most disapponted it didn’t take a whole evening with a cold one or two to complete 😎

Those Velo Crazy bars look like an option. Mary bars while IME being better than regular xc flats or risers on long boring/paved sections (ie +50 mile B road/towpath/fireroad sections they aren’t nearly as useful as drops to relieve numbness/boredom/headwinds.

Time for someone to update those old suicide levers for super-wide, flared, shallow drops running cable-discs?

ooh. Nice old Peugeot.

@malvern Rider – the Crazy Bars are pretty decent, assuming you can get hold of them – I only found one shop with them in stock last year despite quite a few claiming to have them. The “horns” are set at 400mm spacing so basically the same as the width of the drops on drop bars – in-fact VO say that riding with your hands at the joins is the same as riding with hands on hoods. The horns are also at a better width for a TT style position, traditional TT bars are a bit narrow for most.

I’d not come across the KOGA Denham bars before – look interesting (link for anyone wanting to know about them – https://www.cyclingabout.com/koga-denham-bars/) What I’d like to see is a bar where the bar ends “droop” so that they are lower than the clamp. Not as much as even a shallow gravel style drop bar but enough that your weight is better distributed. Jones bars, Crazy Bars and the Moloko all recommend that the bars dip toward the rear but this puts the front loop or horns at an awkward angle and to be able to rest your forearms on the bars you have to drop your body even more. If the bullhorns on the Denham bars were mounted 10degs or so down as it were then this would sort that out.

But I want to still be efficient on the road so I can get to the best trails without being knackered.

You’ll be fine on flats.

No, but drops are definitely worth a couple of gears of free speed.

Disagree. What’s important is aerodynamics. Flat bars don’t have to be set high and wide for ultimate control. On my rigid bike I have fairly narrow bars set low, at a similar height to the hoods on my road bike which is low. Probably the same position as the drops on a drop bar MTB or relaxed tourer. This is a nice positive position for getting down power, and is pretty aero for an MTB. Off road it’s not too bad either because the bike is rigid so I don’t have to worry about diving suspension chucking me OTB. I actually hold PRs for some road segments on it, with 2.3″ tyres on too, so it’s not that slow. But I can ride any singletrack I like on it. Of course I don’t go fast if it’s rough, but I can go pretty fast somewhere like Swinley because the handling is quick.

Then again – if you’re on an Arkose, I don’t think you’ve got enough rubber to go fast on anything technical, so I personally would be on drops. But try flats, you might like it. On my rigid bike I don’t feel I’m losing out on road at all. I’d happily ride all day on it, and if I really had to have a do-it-all bike I’d keep it exactly as it is.

I take your point about aerodynamics molgrips. I’m probably making too big a deal of any losses a flat-bar would bring. The issue is more that a 50mm tyred, flatbar bike is pretty boring on the road precisely as it’s so stable, even if it’s not much slower.

Then again – if you’re on an Arkose, I don’t think you’ve got enough rubber to go fast on anything technical, so I personally would be on drops.

I’m not so sure there though. I think that precisely as I don’t have much rubber underneath me, a wider & higher bar is useful, because I can make up for the lack of tyre volume to some degree by being able to skip and hop the bike around comfortably when the terrain gets rough. I almost feel like drop bars would be ok on a rigid 29er on the sorts of trails I’m thinking of, as the tyres would deal with a lot of the rough stuff.

I quite like drops off road – I run Salsa Cowbars – wide, moderately flared compact drops – on my cross bike. They’re okay on the road, I feel secure and locked in on the drops. I doubt that fitting flat bars is going to make much difference on proper off-road stuff as the limitation is arguably narrow tyres and no suspension. It’s not like fitting wide risers would transform it into a demon mountain bike or none-flared, full narrower drops would make it into a demon road bike. I guess if I were riding successive 200km days then I might be more fussy, but for general use they seem fine. The character of the ride on and off road is more to do with the bike and its limitations / qualities than the bars, within moderately sane limits anyway. All imho etc.

I used to hate drop bars offroad, so much so that I sold the extra wheels for my CX bike and just used it as my winter road bike.

However, when I changed to my Tripster, something magic happened with the geometry of the bike, and now I LOVE drop bars off road, even riding much the same stuff I hated before. I do know that for me the difference between ‘these bars feel great’ and ‘I hate all bikes’ is pretty narrow though – I had some other bars on there with really similar drop/flare etc but just slightly different reach and really hated it. Took me a while to track down some UK salsa stock.

FWIW, my bars are set in a reasonably racey position, which helps both off and on road for me.

drop bars would be ok on a rigid 29er on the sorts of trails I’m thinking of, as the tyres would deal with a lot of the rough stuff.

Genesis sell a bike like that, called a Vagabond … 😀

Of course I don’t go fast if it’s rough, but I can go pretty fast somewhere like Swinley because the handling is quick.

Swinley is hardly a great example of a technical trail, is it. I took my Vagabond around there – I wouldn’t do that around a Welsh or Scottish trail centre.

The thing is I don’t think the compromise with bars is inevitable. With tyres it obviously is: if I want grip I have to sacrifice rolling resistance.

And for me this tangential point is kind of key. Tarmac, big rocks, mud etc all have different and conflicting requirements for tyres, which limits the idea of “one bike for everything” if everything crops up in one ride. To be fair, tyres are obviously a little easier to change than bars, although on a singlespeed a bar change can be a 10 minute job.

Disagree. What’s important is aerodynamics.

Disagree 😉 What’s important to me (YMMV) is hand positions. These days I ride far more road than MTB so I find drops and hoods very natural for tapping out the miles, and I get less hand numbness than I do with flat bars. But flat bars give me waaaay better control on rough stuff.

That Instructables hack is somewhat ill-advised. Don’t try this at home.