Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 87 total)
  • Hope and Trickstuff – “How much?!” content
  • appltn
    Full Member

    I was lucky enough to spot an in stock set of Trickstuff Direttissimas on Bike24 about 6 months ago at a time when I had some cash in my “bike pot”.

    They’ve been amazingly good but I can’t help wondering if a set of Hope Tech 4 V4 might be just as good and let me put a few (hundred) pounds back into the bike pot for other things.

    Has anyone ridden both and can tell me how they compare? I care about lever feel (free stroke and total stroke), overall power, quality of feel (I know this is subjective), robustness and reliability. I’m happy to spend ages getting them set up perfectly but then ideally I’d not need to constantly faff to keep them that way.

    Now would be a good time to offload them as they’re still in basically perfect condition but on the other hand if I ended up regretting it then it’d be impossible to buy another set! Poor me, I know 😂

    mildred
    Full Member

    I realise this isn’t what you’re asking but it may add food to your thoughts… I’ve got tech3 levers E4 calipers on one bike with 203mm & 180mm rotors & tech4 levers and E4 calipers on the other bike with 180mm & 160mm rotors. Same red pads in each.

    The tech4 even with smaller rotors have as good if not better power, but more noticeable than the power is the modulation and feel. They’re probably the best brake I’ve ever used; one of the nicest features on Hope levers is the adjustability – I’ve got little hands and struggle to get a nice feel with a lot of manufacturers but then Hopes can be tweaked to perfect for me. Definitely a step forward from Hope.

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    I’m only commenting as I’d like to know the answer. Having said that, there’s only so many variables to play with when designing a brake system like this. It’s mostly mechanical advantage at the lever and hydraulic advantage of the system.

    Ultimately, how far do you move the lever and how much does that move the pads.

    I think quite a bit of the trickstuff magic was reducing friction losses and I believe that the Tech 4 has tried the same. Bearings 9n the lever pivot, stainless piston sleeves, I believe there’s even a bushing in the master cylinder and a lighter return spring.

    sharkattack
    Full Member

    Sorry, I’ve ridden neither but I’ve heard lots of people say they prefer the E4 to the V4. Not sure why. I’m curious as I’ll be buying some next year.

    appltn
    Full Member

    one of the nicest features on Hope levers is the adjustability – I’ve got little hands and struggle to get a nice feel with a lot of manufacturers but then Hopes can be tweaked to perfect for me.

    This is a real positive, I only have one nit with the Trickstuff and it’s that I’d love there to be a bit less free stroke. If I could just wind the lever into its travel slightly like you can with the Hopes then it’d make all the difference.

    I’ve heard lots of people say they prefer the E4 to the V4. Not sure why.

    I’m guessing but it could be that the V4’s larger calliper piston diameter causes the lever throw to increase. Perhaps those folks prefer less lever stroke between the initial bite and lock up and find the E4 to have enough absolute power such that the V4 isn’t worth the trade off in lever throw?

    Relatedly, my first impression (before riding) of the Trickstuff was that the lever was quite soft feeling. This was actually me misinterpreting the low system friction which makes the levers so much lighter to pull. Once I actually rode them I realised they didn’t need much effort to get to the maximum usable power.

    appltn
    Full Member

    I think quite a bit of the trickstuff magic was reducing friction losses and I believe that the Tech 4 has tried the same. Bearings 9n the lever pivot, stainless piston sleeves, I believe there’s even a bushing in the master cylinder and a lighter return spring.

    Right, and I think it’s that stuff that gives them the hard to describe “great feel”. Everything is tight, precise and light to the touch. I’ve read all of these words as descriptions of both sets of brakes, I’d just love to know what someone who has squeezed both thinks 😆

    sharkattack
    Full Member

    I’m guessing but it could be that the V4’s larger calliper piston diameter causes the lever throw to increase.

    Yeah I’ve heard that actually. Apparently the E4 give up max power sooner which I think I’d prefer.

    Let’s cut to the chase…how much you selling them Direttissimas for?*

    *for everyone else’s benefit obviously, I can’t buy them!

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Hope got a set of Trickstuff brakes to benchmark against for the Tech 4. Question is, did they just get close, or did they actually beat them?

    appltn
    Full Member

    Apparently the E4 give up max power sooner which I think I’d prefer

    And I guess you can always go up a rotor size to get the equivalent power if you want it (unless you’re already on 220).

    Let’s cut to the chase…how much you selling them Direttissimas for?*

    *for everyone else’s benefit obviously, I can’t buy them!

    Lol I was hoping to get a bit further into the thread before revealing the stealth ad! I’ve seen some folks asking insane prices for them but probably just look to recoup what I paid and make sure they’re going to someone who plans to use them rather than sell them on. Regardless, they’re not for sale yet!

    appltn
    Full Member

    It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Hope got a set of Trickstuff brakes to benchmark against for the Tech 4. Question is, did they just get close, or did they actually beat them?

    Tell you what, everyone chip in to buy me a set of Hopes and I’ll do the comparison for you. It’ll be worth it I promise!

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    Given that you actually have a set of Trickstuff, I reckon that means you and Tomhoward are about the only people who could do a comparison

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    Same, if anyone wants to send me a set of hopes, I’ll do a Direttissima/Maxima comparison…

    (I’m actually thinking about a new set of brakes, between Hope, Radic, Braking and BSA, because niche)

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    So niche, I’ve not heard of most of them.

    fathomer
    Full Member

    Pretty sure RickDraper has/had both and I’m sure I’ve seen a comment from mboy about the Hopes being as good as the Trickstuff. Could be wrong though 🙂

    appltn
    Full Member

    Those Braking inca’s are not good looking at all. I know that’s not supposed to matter but for that money I’d at least want to not hate them.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    The BSAs are an acquired taste too (and I’m pretty sure there’s a link betwixt them and Braking.)

    Radic KAHA look good though.

    sharkattack
    Full Member

    I can’t even find the BSA ones. All these brakes are either impossible to Google, or have terrible websites with a lack of useful information.

    Cosmetically, I’d forgive almost anything if they work well and are endlessly rebuildable.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    Took some rummaging, but https://bici.andreanigroup.com/en/product-search/?cat=FRENI

    For the BCA’s

    appltn
    Full Member

    Radic KAHA look good though.

    No arguments from me on that one, they look great.

    RickDraper
    Free Member

    Embarrassingly I still haven’t had time to try my V4’s, I have taken the Maximas off my Megatower and replaced them with the V4’s, I will hopefully get time to try them this week. One slight niggle is I wish hope would stop drilling/dimpling the brake lever where your finger sits, the smooth Trickstuff levers feel a lot nicer to hold as they aren’t dimpled.

    honourablegeorge
    Full Member

    appltn

    Those Braking inca’s are not good looking at all. I know that’s not supposed to matter but for that money I’d at least want to not hate them.

    They look amazing in the flesh, and come in black and silver now also

    chakaping
    Free Member

    It’s good to see some of you are waaaay further down the rabbit hole than me when it comes to bike parts.

    I’ve just had a weekend riding 4-pot Deores on a 180mm bike and they seem to offer all the braking I could wish for.

    I’ve heard from people I trust that Trickstuff brakes are amazing, but how would you describe the benefits they bring in terms of the rider experience?

    razorrazoo
    Full Member

    Paul Aston, who is very forthright in his comments on product, rates the Tech 4s as the best brake on the market right now.  I’d like some in the future, though still happy with my Tech 3 E4s.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    Paul Aston, who is very forthright in his comments on product, rates the Tech 4s as the best brake on the market right now. I’d like some in the future, though still happy with my Tech 3 E4s.

    Hasn’t/won’t try Trickstuff though, mainly because of lead time (2 years, as a regular punter buying direct), and I guess Trickstuff haven’t sent him any.

    appltn
    Full Member

    I’ve been doing maths to compare hydraulic ratios between the Hopes and Trickstuff based on this spreadsheet.

    * Trickstuff Maxima (17mm and 16mm calliper pistons, 9mm lever piston) gives a hydraulic gain of 6.728.
    * Trickstuff Direttissima (14mm and 16mm calliper pistons, 9mm lever piston) has a gain of 5.988.
    * Hope Tech 4 V4 (16mm and 18mm calliper pistons, 9.5mm lever piston) has a gain of 6.430.
    * Hope Tech 4 E4 (16mm and 16mm calliper pistons, 9.5mm lever piston) has a gain of 5.676.

    This doesn’t account for lever length which is also key to the power that a brake can output, unfortunately I can’t find information on the geometry of the Tech 4 lever blade. It does at least suggest that the Hopes will be in the same ballpark as the Tricksuff equivalent in terms of power though.

    I have a feeling that the Tech 4 lever might be longer than the Direttissima and possibly the Maxima which would crank up the power at the expense of more lever throw. This is a total guess though.

    It’s good to see some of you are waaaay further down the rabbit hole than me when it comes to bike parts.

    I’m not sure what you mean.

    appltn
    Full Member

    Paul Aston, who is very forthright in his comments on product, rates the Tech 4s as the best brake on the market right now. I’d like some in the future, though still happy with my Tech 3 E4s.

    Hasn’t/won’t try Trickstuff though, mainly because of lead time (2 years, as a regular punter buying direct), and I guess Trickstuff haven’t sent him any.

    He did review the Direttissimas a while back for Pinkbike, I’d love to know how he compares the two but it doesn’t seem like he’s going to tell us.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    New calipers since then though.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    I’m not sure what you mean.

    Geeking out over fancy niche kit.

    zerocool
    Full Member

    Even if they’re not quite as powerful (I have tried neither) you can actually by the Hope brakes which is more than can be said for the Trickstuff ones. I know people still awaiting theirs from ages ago.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    Speaking of which, Intend – purveyors of ridiculously engineered German things, have just released this…

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Clyf0GHMk_S/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

    There’s a lot to unpack from that, but I’ve never seen those calipers before.

    I know people still awaiting theirs from ages ago.

    Mine took 10 days, and 2 years, to arrive.

    appltn
    Full Member

    New calipers since then though.

    Good point (I have them!) afaik they just introduced a different pad shape and easier bleed port but kept the functionality the same?

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    (I have them!)

    I don’t. Because I ordered ‘custom’ brakes, (The res cover and lever were black, with a silver body) I didn’t get the new caliper.

    Brakes are amazing, company is shit to deal with.

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    And that point it why I’d probably end up fitting Hope unless someone convinced my that Trickstuff were vastly better

    appltn
    Full Member

    Brakes are amazing, company is shit to deal with.

    I have to say I’ve had the opposite experience. I managed to shear a bleed port screw and then a lever bolt in pretty quick succession and each time I had a replacement in the post (free of charge) within a day or so of emailing. They took ages to arrive because of shipping from Germany but I can’t really knock them for that.

    I don’t think either bolt should’ve sheared from the force I was putting on them but that’s another issue, at least they dealt with it quickly for me.

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    I haven’t had to ask for any spares/assistance yet, people I know that have, it’s been good. They always responded quickly to emails, it was just the contents of the mails that have left a sour taste. Seems once you get the brakes, everything is good, it’s just getting to that stage.

    zerocool
    Full Member

    @appltn – Paul Aston said recently that he thought the new Hopes were the best brakes he’s ridden. He also liked the Braking Incas 2.0 but I believe there were problems with them.

    Paul Aston MTB

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Took some rummaging, but https://bici.andreanigroup.com/en/product-search/?cat=FRENI

    What I don’t quite understand is:

    Full set of Andreani upgrade fork cartridges with compression and rebound adjustments and springs – £500

    Set of MTB brakes – £1300, rotors not included.

    Surely the brakes have less parts than the cartridges?

    argee
    Full Member

    What brakes are best is a pretty much pointless question for any brakes, they’re all pretty much similar, looking at flow or pressure gains and so on is pointless as well, that’s good for a closed system but disc brakes on a bike, with so many outside influences (rotors, pads, conditions, compressive rates of the fluid, etc).

    Most people can adapt to any brake, given time for setup and use, i’ve seen more change in brakes by changing pad brands/types than changing actual brakes in terms of actual performance, i.e. ignoring the whole function part such as bite.

    simondbarnes
    Full Member

    £1300 for a set of brakes? Blimey, and people have the cheek to moan about £150 jeans!

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