Keep what you got but yeah, a full facer wouldn't be a bad idea if you're messing about in the one spot.

Protective gear will rarely stop broken bones - better to continue on your current path, maybe with a full face.

Decent set of flat pedals and some good shoes. Looks like you're on SPD in the pic? Stacking a jump with SPD's will hurt......

Technique > protection

[quote=Rob Hilton ]Technique > protection

However protection useful whilst gaining technique

Yes I'm on spd's, feel very comfortable using them and enjoy being attached to the bike, have considered flats though.

So looks like full face is unanimous then keep working up in small steps.

teleport.

When it goes wrong hit the button and transfer your atoms to your nearest ball pit.

Full face would be a very sensible option. I'd seriously ditch the SPDs, you can get pedals which are flat and SPD together, so they may be worth a look.
I think all the stuff like shin pads, body armour etc. is really unnecessary (neck braces are another story...), I'd stick with knee pads and maybe elbow pads, but neither are gonna stop broken bones, just cushion the landing a bit.

Definitely get a full face though - I've got a 661 comp shifted and it's great unless you're a weight weenie or brand man (don't talk to me about troy lee helmets...)

you can get pedals which are flat and SPD together, so they may be worth a look.

They're not.

I switch between flats & clips on a whim 🙂 I've found I apply techique better for jumps & drops on flats - maybe because I [i]have to[/i]. I wouldn't use clips for just jumping, have used them plenty for uplift days with jumps involved.

Have to say mate im no expert but you look like your doing good as you are in that pic, id definatley be wearing a full face but then I jump badly

I didn't realise you were on clips - flats will promote better technique and be safer because of that and ease of bailing.

On all the jumps I have crashed on I have never hit my head. You generally Arnt going that fast especially when beginning. I would suggest a piss pot helmet and some flats. You don't need to spend a lot getting grippy pedals and 5:10s, a lot of the kids are on cheap plastic pedals and any old skate shoes from tk maxx.

As for the bike, drop the saddle and if those forks are travel adjust then lower them all the way.

What you need is a mattress.

You look comfortable in the air in that pic so you've overcome the first hurdle - confidence. A full facer will not only be obviously safer it will inspire a little extra confidence in you too. As others have said, ditch the clips and stick some grippy wide profile flats on instead.

Don't see how pulling up on the pedals with clips is bad technique. Clips are there to be used and will allow you to move the bike around in the air better. Big wave surfers are strapping themselves to their boards so they can get better manoeuvrability by pulling and pushing the board around on straps. Don't see why using the clips should be seen as bad technique. Just different. Don't DH racers mostly use clips now?

Not trying to be obtuse but I've had more painful moments from my feet coming off the peddles than any other thing.
Is the idea of cleats built into flat peddles to ease the 'hot spot' under your feet?
I'm tempted to give flats a go though, makes sense to become accustomed to them but I do ride the Pig as a go everywhere bike and it's singlespeed which does sometimes require a bit of upstroke pull to get up meatier climbs.

btw the saddle is slammed all the way to the top tube and all 160mm of fork is in use. Lot's of confidence gained from that.

The kit your wearing is fine.

On another note I would suggest switching the stem to a 50mm.

First off, I would like to congratulate you on the achievement of your first ever table top.. I spent many years tutoring basic skills courses, and the table top was always a psychological one. If you can do it on a table top then it's exactly the same technique as performing it on a gap, however overcoming this physiological obstical is the hard bit! Bit of courage and you will see! As for the helmet, I would seriously advise in a paying a premium for a top quality helmet such as troy lee, and yes definitely a full face, there is no point in all the body armour if your not going to protect the one part that is the most vulnerable to gravitational impacts.

Clips are there to be used and will allow you to move the bike around in the air

Especially tailwhips

Talk to the Porc (!) The people there you see jumping will be a lot more helpful than some of the opinions given on this thread.

Don't DH racers mostly use clips now?

Quite a few do but they'll also be using proper technique for jumps not just relying on being able to pull up on the clips. I'd have thought that just pulling up on clips on jumps would have some undesirable effects in the air? (I don't use clips so don't know)

60mm stem and my mates 710mm bars are going to happen this week.
Tempted to buy a helmet online as not many retailers round here sell the more extreme stuff.
It's funny, just when you think you don't need to buy anything else...

Back on the noodly race bike tomorrow for Gorrick spring series final round. i'm going to be looking for ramps everywhere. Not sure thats a race winning tactic. 😉

Not trying to be obtuse but I've had more painful moments from my feet coming off the peddles than any other thing.

I don't ride clips but I can't remember the last time I lost a foot on flats - could be you're relying on the cleat to keep you attached to the bike?

Rob Hilton, that's the best advice. How did we cope before the internet eh?
Of course it's mainly kids in tee shirts at Porc rather than 38 year olds who should know better. The woman running the place seemed very concerned for our welfare when we arrived. lol

Yes Chiefgrooveguru, very much. 😉

Relying on cleats? Probably. But so what if I am? I never use flats so no point in developing flat pedal specific technique. What's wrong with utilising the kit you've got? What the point of cleats if you're not going to use them. DH riders must have moved over to clips as they must provide some benefit and more control in the air will be a good reason I'd bet.

Good efforts to the OP though. I was working on table tops today, worked my way upto about 3ft, but the OP's photo looks more than that.

Relying on cleats? Probably. But so what if I am? I never use flats so no point in developing flat pedal specific technique

The technique is the same for both, it just clips mean you can do it wrong.....

Clips really don't provide more control in the air, unless you have them so tight that you'd never get out of them if something went wrong. Things go wrong when you're learning to jump!!

DH racers use them as there is marginally more power and let you pedal through the roughest stuff without worrying about your feet coming off. Plus there won't be a rider on the pro circuit who can't jump well on flat pedals.

Just kinda skimmed the replies but i'd strongly suggest a pisspot lid and not a full face one. Several reasons for this - so you can pick the one which suits you best 😉

1. Better visability
2. Easier breathing (especially if you're sessioning a jump spot)
3. It's unlikely* you'll hit your face in a crash unless you actually want to.

* This depends on two other things. First is get a shorter stem and secondly, get flat pedals.

I realise this is the inter-o-net and you'll get lots of differing opinions, but mine is correct on this subject 😆

Have fun. You'll soon discover (if you haven't already) that flying through the air on a bike is the best thing EVA!

Seeing as you asked...

Relying on cleats? Probably. But so what if I am?

You're doing it wrong.

flat pedal specific technique.

No such thing; same technique.

DH riders must have moved over to clips as they must provide some benefit and more control in the air will be a good reason I'd bet.

To pedal harder on the flat sections, would be my bet.

I was working on table tops today, worked my way upto about 3ft, but the OP's photo looks more than that.

Up to 3 ft? The OP's photo looks like a drop, not a tabletop. Small drop, but it'd be silly to start with a large one. 😉

Looks to me like he's got his weight off the back and pretty straight arms and very bent legs. With weight centered, there'd be better control on landing and some force going into the front wheel instead of it being light. Straighter legs would enable soaking up the landing by bending them, just like you do when you jump without a bike.

Might be fine for a small drop, but doing the same off a bigger one would magnify the errors & increase the crash potential - I know, I've been there 🙂

That was indeed a drop at Pitch Hill last week.
Today at Porc was focusing on trying all different aspects of flight; tail down, nose down, flat. Just playing around with the balance at the moment. Am working on extending my legs more during flight as I have a habit of scrunching up.
Loads to learn which is why I'm enjoying myself so much.
One of the best bits was finding a near vertical jump with a pile of bark chip at the top. I'm already infatuated with the place.

Guy with a photo of himself doing a big drop with as much protection as you will ever need asking about tips for protective gear???

Ok then. As well as the stuff you are wearing on of these:

[img] [/img]

And if that is not enough ask this guy

[img] [/img]

or this one:

[img] [/img]

Seriously don't worry so much about the stuff you are wearing. You need to be able to move about. More important to find the right places to jump, a pump track is really good practice to get used to pushing into the jump. I have no claims to greatness but watching the Martin Söderström fall off on massive jumps and walk away I would seriously say that learning how to fall off looks like a very useful skill.

Trying to learn to jump on spds is like learning to drive automatic. You'll only ever be able to drive that automatic rather than unleash the full power of manual mayhem.

Plus it's dangerous! If you come unclicked mid air or while hammering down a drop line you'll never find the pedal in time to save yourself from the next phase of the move - the landing! Once you learn flats you will genuinely wonder why you persisted with spuds for so long.

I can't remember ever coming off my flats and skinning my shin.

SPDs with a platform are not any form of replacement for proper flats; they are simply to provide more stability and quicker clipping in when using cleated shoes.

One other point on SPD's that I don't think has been mentioned is that they put your foot in the wrong place. You want the axle in the middle of your foot, if it's too far forward when you land heavy it will over rotate your ankles. That hurts.

They're not.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=67250

Read the description, you can.

Imagine landing on the SPD side, there is a whole load of pain right there. They are described as trekking pedals for a reason.

Ok.

I've ordered a full face and some padded pants (I want to learn to do that really cool back wheel stays on the ground, front wheel floats over the double/gap thing - going to land on my arse sooner or later mastering that one)

You've convinced me to at least try flats out. I'll buy some cheap skate shoes and borrow some flats. Best that I try get used to them now before it's too late.

38 going on 13!

Imagine landing on the SPD side, there is a whole load of pain right there. They are described as trekking pedals for a reason.

(I want to learn to do that really cool back wheel stays on the ground, front wheel floats over the double/gap thing - going to land on my arse sooner or later mastering that one)

That is a manual, and they are really difficult to do properly - it'll probably take a long time to learn - or at least it is with me 🙄

I crashed on Thursday night trying to manual. I had no knee or elbow pads and only my Giro Xen helmet on. I didn't die, but I did scratch my leg. Like I said you don't go fast enough to get hurt properly.

I'm with Euro on the helmet thing but never mind.

Clips for jumping, I don't know about you but I like to know that if a landing is looking bad then I can ditch the bike. Hitting the ground with metal tubing in between my legs doesn't sound fun. Chicks dig scars but not guys with broken willies. 😛

Also you can do gnarcore skillz wid flats

A short stem is perfect, I'd rather have a short fork but be fairly upright on the bike thanks to a short stem.

*caution I'm not a pro jumper I have done a little bit - but that's what I've got from what I've done*

I only dirt jump with an open face lid, I have always found that a full face has a blind spot ( usually where the landing is for me). I also only use knee pads as I find everything else restricts movement a bit too much. For downhill I will pad up like a storm trooper.

Flats only when dirt jumping, there are few things worse than landing clipped in, your hands slip off the bars and you end up using your nuts for a brake. Riding flats will teach proper technique which can be transferred to riding in disco slippers and party pedals, like keeping you weight in the right place rather than relying on the clips to hold your feet onto the pedals, overall knowing how to ride flats properly will make you a better all round rider. I frequently swap between Flats and clips on my XC bike to stop me getting lazy.

I only dirt jump with an open face lid, I have always found that a full face has a blind spot ( usually where the landing is for me). I also only use knee pads as I find everything else restricts movement a bit too much. For downhill I will pad up like a storm trooper.

Flats only when dirt jumping, there are few things worse than landing clipped in, your hands slip off the bars and you end up using your nuts for a brake. Riding flats will teach proper technique which can be transferred to riding in disco slippers and party pedals, like keeping you weight in the right place rather than relying on the clips to hold your feet onto the pedals, overall knowing how to ride flats properly will make you a better all round rider. I frequently swap between Flats and clips on my XC bike to stop me getting lazy.

Ok.

I've ordered a full face and some padded pants (I want to learn to do that really cool back wheel stays on the ground, front wheel floats over the double/gap thing - going to land on my arse sooner or later mastering that one)

Lid choice is entirely personal, and if a FF gives you confidence to try new stuff then fair play. Glad you decided to go with flats though. It's really not a good idea to learn* to jump clipped in, anyone who says differently should be ignored for your own safety.

Manualling is cool (and far harder to master than you'd think) but the best skill you can learn is how to bail out and fall properly. This is just one of the reasons that spds should not be used. If/when things go wrong during a jump you'll need to try to get the bike away from where you want to land. A gentle but firm push on the bars and pedals at the same time generally does it. Push too hard and you risk the bike bouncing back towards you, which isn't all that pleasant.

*Once you are really confident at jumping (and ejecting), you can switch to spds if you really wish.

This thread is hilarious... I haven't read the whole thing but you've asked for some advice on an area you are unfamiliar with. The best bit of advice has been flat pedals and you've rejected it.

Flat pedals and a shorter stem is good plan looking at your bike set up. Why flat pedals? Not so much technique as ability to bail, when jumping gaps it cam go wrong and landing from 10ft up in the air losing control and trying to unclip and eject the bike is not something that will happen naturally.

I'd also suggest rather than modding your xc set up buy yourself a cheap jump bike (can pick one up for about £200 on ride.io classifieds.

In the adapted words of Baz Lurman.... Trust me on the flat pedals.

I started off riding jumps and skate parks and trials as a teenager. Have ridden and raced DH and now ride mostly all mountain xc.... I'd never hit a set of dirt jumps on clips as it's just dangerous... Really dangerous.

Paul

When you buy a full facer do not mess about. Get the best one you can afford. I destroyed a tld d3 this week and those things are solid. I now have another. I also use a neck brace but that is up to you. I would not dh and or jump without it. Flats pedals are a worthy investment as are some decent shoes that will grip said pedals and also protect your feet. Look at how your bike is set up as well. The first thing Jedi did to my bike was alter the position of the brake levers.

full face and done!

Am i right in thinking that is you in the picture?? to the OP

As for your question you certainly have a point in asking that.
What was you thinking trying riding of a professional level in the picture without being seriously kitted out im baffled!

It goes without saying that proper protective apparel is without doubt the most important thing when trying anything even remotely close to that level of freeride next time wear it!

Chilled76, I said I'd try flats, so er... Chill fella.

Thanks everyone for all the advice, look forward to the journey.

During my race today there was a rollable gap jump, had to quell the urge to go for it and squash the bumps. My xc bike flies like a dream but the SID fork feels horribly noodly on landing.

don't need a full face, listen to the guys bout flats though. I jump on spds now ('cause that's what's on my bike), but learned on flats and the advice "Get the bike away from you as fast as you can when it goes tits up" rings as true now as it was when I was taught it years and years ago.

crashing off a jump on spds is a world of wrongness

nickc - Member
don't need a full face, listen to the guys bout flats though. I jump on spds now ('cause that's what's on my bike), but learned on flats and the advice "Get the bike away from you as fast as you can when it goes tits up" rings as true now as it was when I was taught it years and years ago.
crashing off a jump on spds is a world of wrongness
POSTED 46 MINUTES AGO #

Hmmm.. Who would have taught such a thing as 'getting the bike away' during a crash?? The one thing I always taught my clients was to try think more about body posture, do NOT tense up, this is by far the worst mistakes that I see on a regular basis! Stay calm and keep as relaxed as possible, thus stopping any breaks that could occur if one was to tense up, when you concentrate on getting your bike away you are not relaxing! Please do not listen to the people telling you not to wear a full face, that would be plain silly when trying such manoeuvres on a bike. Hope this helps to take you to the next level. 🙂

richmtbguru

A quick hop over the bars and running out >>>>>>> holding onto the bars, relaxing and falling onto my face

Being able to eject from the bike with zero notice has saved me over and over and over.

As others who have said (from my life time riding DJs/BMX, spending my whole life around DJer and BMXers)

.Flats
.Short stem
.No excessively loose clothing
.You already have helmet/knee/elbow pads, that's all you need

LOL @ Pro DHers using spudds cos they're better for jumping

Yep. One of the most useful skills I learned from riding bmx trails was getting away from the bike when it all goes wrong.

I think this is the most unintentionally hilarious thread I've seen in a long time!

Please rename this thread to "Davy Jones' locker" as I'm certain its chocked full of dead sailors.

Ahoy hoy! 🙂

richmtbguru

You've clearly never seen me jump chap. Really, some times getting the hurty metal thing as far away from where I'm intent on landing has saved me a few times. I get what you're saying about staying calm and relaxed, but don't worry after 20 years, and no bust bones, I'm happy to carry on carrying on..

thanks though

I think this is the most unintentionally hilarious thread I've seen in a long time!

Please rename this thread to "Davy Jones' locker" as I'm certain its chocked full of dead sailors.

Ahoy hoy!

One has certainly lost me there?

Dead sailor is a term used to describe a jump gone wrong. Usually a [i]nothing [/i]jump where the rider goes stiff and falls through the air instead of flies. Happens to everyone once in a while.

And richmtbguru, you don't really teach people do you?

And richmtbguru, you don't really teach people do you?

I often think this.

How dare you? He's a guru!

A dead sailor is where you are really stiff in the air surely (ie have no style), just like a dead sailor would get all stiff due to all the salt in them?

And agreed with the hilarity of this thread, coming from a dirtjump background - piss pot, flat pedals (not even 5.10s as they are too grippy), and get used to ditching the bike.

Sorry mate, so you did. I said I'd not read the whole thing, I got to the bit where you were saying you didn't need to try flats a few times and then I skipped to the end and posted...

You won't regret it. Also no footers are one of the easiest tricks to learn first when you start getting airborn.

Think I'm due a burial at sea but genuinely grateful for this thread because hidden within it is some good advice. Just need to work out where. 😉

Update.

Just bought some shin guards.

er... what flat peddles for under £50 thread diversion....?

Superstar or Carbon Cycles for pedals