just wondering really, I guess the next car, or next but one, will be electric as that is the way things are going.

Is it possible, and legal, to plug a car into a domestic socket and run a cable across the pavement?

Also how do the chargers I see on the motorway work? I assume they are pay to use? but on what basis, time, kwh delivered? I haven’t seen many around towns, do they not exist, or have I not noticed them?

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I see loads on my travels, a few of the owners can probably fill you in better. Real question is how often do you need to charge? Do you have access at work?

yes, interested in this too….next car likely to be leccy

Do you have access at work?

at this time no, and I cycle most days anyway.

at this time no, and I cycle most days anyway.

So how often do you need to charge – that would be the real question, that will tell you what you need to find or supplement.

I’ve been running a Leaf for about a year now.

I can charge it from a 3-pin – takes about 12 hours for a full charge.

The public chargers vary hugely depending on where you are. Most of the public chargers here in Scotland are free – a rapid charge will take about an hour or so. In England I’ve had some that were almost free (something like £1 connection fee) or about £8 for a full charge – paid for by the kWh.

I’m looking forward to the day when the chargers aren’t tied to specific networks and aren’t largely hidden away in random car parks with no facilities. There will be money to me made at some point providing something for people to do while they wait for their car to charge.

There will be money to me made at some point providing something for people to do while they wait for their car to charge.

Actually, what we’re working on is making slow rate chargers so plentiful that you’ll just leave your car charging while you do something more useful – work, shop, eat, watch a film.

We’re a way off yet, but little, slow and often is probably best. Ask Nissan how often they recommend a fast charge (a techy not a salesperson) – the answer came back “never”.

Also the meter reds to go in the car not the charger, partly so you can plug into any charger and it just works (not need for credit cards, passes for a given charging network, mobile coverage, or even comma to the charger), but also for a sack load of other reasons.

The current view of charging networks is an interim solution even once it’s actually rolled out properly.

There will be money to me made at some point providing something for people to do while they wait for their car to charge.

Something you can do while staying in the car? There are carparks round here which offer a similar service. I understand you just pull up and flash your lights. Apparently…

Cables running over pavements. Trip hazards. Local kids vandalising them. People nicking your leccy. You have no guarantee or legal right to park outside your house. Official charge points provided but won’t be enough for the two or three car families, their guests and anyone who just wants to park in your street because it’s handy for somewhere.

And as for charging on travels, until there’s a universal solution that means I can pull up, a minute later I’m full charged again and off, or have enough charge to cover 400 miles and guaranteed infrastructure to charge up for return journey, or I can do a trip to the alps still in about 10 hours, then it’s still a non starter for me.

And unless I’m guaranteed the source of the electricity for charging actually comes from a non fossil fuel source, then there’s really no point.

And unless I’m guaranteed the source of the electricity for charging actually comes from a non fossil fuel source, then there’s really no point.

Off we go again…..
What is the CO2 output for a power station vs your car? What are the emissions stats?

And as for charging on travels, until there’s a universal solution that means I can pull up, a minute later I’m full charged again and off, or have enough charge to cover 400 miles and guaranteed infrastructure to charge up for return journey, or I can do a trip to the alps still in about 10 hours, then it’s still a non starter for me.

400 miles = 5.7 hrs of montorway driving, how safe are you to continue after that? Who drives safely for 5hrs solid?

Next up is the point that you have confused the need to own a single vehicle for everything – stupid idea vs one for 90% of your life and source something different for the 10%, how much would that save you?

ICE = thinking inside the box

Next up is the point that you have confused the need to own a single vehicle for everything – stupid idea vs one for 90% of your life and source something different for the 10%, how much would that save you?

What, buy two massive lumps of metal (and the “destruction” that causes) rather than one? Great idea.

What, buy two massive lumps of metal (and the “destruction” that causes) rather that one? Great idea.

ICE = thinking inside the box

See what I mean

In the short term I expect it won’t be an issue trailing a cable, assuming you prevent a trip hazard, but once everyone is doing it, then I expect it will be legislated against in some form. But, by that time, it won’t be an issue anyway IMO, as EV cars will have 300+ mile range and public chargers will be extensive and super fast. For people without private drives it should all turn out very similar to how you would currently fill up with petrol.

My impression of the current public charging infrastructure is that it’s all a bit shit right now, especially Ecotricity who have most or all of the motorway sites (is it them that run the underground chargers at Ikea in Leeds, which being underground, doesn’t have mobile reception, but you need to use an app to activate the chargers?). However, I hope that it will come good eventually now that big players BP, Shell etc are getting in on the game and might bring some order to the current disjointed chaos that prevails amongst small players. BP, Shell etc have a current ICE estate to get more even coverage and installing simple EV chargers on site should be easy compared to handling highly contaminating explosive volatile liquids.
It’s not just the chaos of every vendor doing their own thing, it’s just stuff like virtually no chargers are undercover, so currently expect to get piss wet thru whilst you fiddle about with plug-in, pressing buttons and whatever charger activation method, whilst out in the open air under UK skies.
Other main issues are around people using ‘charging’ spaces for parking, not charging. It’s not yet socially unacceptable, like it would be to park in a disabled bay or park at a petrol pump and walk off for 30mins.
Note that I don’t say the infrastructure isn’t there, it is there for people who have home charging, it’s all just a bit lacking, disjointed and amateur at the moment and for people who don’t have home charging, it isn’t adequate unless you are lucky.

See what I mean

No, I don’t. And you don’t have the answer either, but I’m sure you’ll reply rather quickly without thinking about what you’re actually saying.

Their point was buying two vehicles to cover all your use cases is old thinking. You get one that covers 90% and rent/borrow/share one that covers the occasional requirements. Not difficult really.

No, I don’t. And you don’t have the answer either, but I’m sure you’ll reply rather quickly without thinking about what you’re actually saying.

Really, you still subscribe to the idea that you own what you drive, for the exceptions rather than the rule can you hire?Pick a vehicle more suitable and then own something more useful for every day? It’s a model that is catching on and I’d say will soon take off.

for the exceptions rather than the rule can you hire?Pick a vehicle more suitable and then own something more useful for every day? It’s a model that is catching on and I’d say will soon take off.

I personally think it will be much harder to achieve mass car share, than just getting people to buy cars that run on a cleaner fuel that requires a slightly different refuelling mindset. Diesel/petrol can never be clean, at least an electric car can only get cleaner as we move more to wind, sun, hydro.

Short term, I’d just prefer not to give any more of my money to the likes of those murdering bstrds in the House of Saud.

In Portsmouth we have started using lamp posts

https://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/ext/travel/electric-charge-points

In case you cant be arsed to open the link it basically says the following

Portsmouth is the first city to introduce an ‘ad hoc’ solution utilising lamp column electricity. This is where electricity is provided by the street lamp column (either directly or via a bollard) and is charged on a pay-as-you-go basis.

Charging areas will be identifiable by a marked bay. To park in the bay, the vehicle must be plugged in and charging.

Not the ultimate solution but a start, can see eventually that outside each house next to the kerb will be a small charging point which will have contactless payment a bit like parking meters, you wont charge your car from your own electricity supply as in Portsmouth its rare to be able to park outside your own house

Actually, what we’re working on is making slow rate chargers so plentiful that you’ll just leave your car charging while you do something more useful – work, shop, eat, watch a film.

We’re a way off yet, but little, slow and often is probably best. Ask Nissan how often they recommend a fast charge (a techy not a salesperson) – the answer came back “never”.

In contrast, VW group (Porsche) are upping the game in fast charging infrastructure.

Porsche electric car prototype achieves new record 400 kW charge rate

Improvements in wireless charging tech so that for example, cars can be charged by the barriers as you drive along the motorway, or as it’s parked above a built in charging pad, like they are trialling for some buses at bus stops has ultimately got to be the way it goes. Clean and convenient without the need to actively search for charging facilities.

https://link.medium.com/X9IWqUXQzV

Always going to be a huge infrastructure issue in a city like Edinburgh where many ( Most?) people live in flats. Can I trail a lead out of my windows 70″ above the ground and round the corner from any possible parking? I rarely have a car parked but when I do it can be up to a couple of hundred yards away.

The model of car ownership does not really work with EVs and a city like mine. Shared ownership like car clubs would of course

I personally think it will be much harder to achieve mass car share,

It’s a model I exploit a couple of times a month its called a hire car….

Presumably people in flats would either have a communal charger (pay per use) or would use council installed chargers (like the Portsmouth lamp posts) . Maybe not as convenient as having a dive way and your own charge point but also not a massive barrier to having an EV

“It’s a model I exploit a couple of times a month its called a hire car…”

Which is handy as you live in a densely populated area.

I tried that once….but moving from a non densely populated area to a densely populated area caused significant stress and insomnia and a lack of cycling.

But in not living in a densely populated area(health comes first) means that to hire a vehicle would take at least 2 hours to collect and return and require the use of a vehicle to go each way.

It works for you but I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking it’s not quite the simple solution that you pitch it as every single time this comes up

TJ doesn’t own a car. 🤔

I live within walking distance of a Budget Car Hire firm. I have hired from them in the past. I still can’t make owning one car with one set of capabilities and a hiring a second car with another set of capabilities make financial sense or sense in terms of time. (In spite of desperately wanting to.)

I suspect a huge number of people are like me, they need the smallest cheapest car 5 days a week and a massive car at the weekend that’s going to end up dirty inside and probably with a few marks (kids: camping, beach, biking, kayaking, sailing). If I can’t make it work and end up needlessly driving a large car 5 days a week I can’t see how anyone else is going to if the nearest hire car source is 30 mins away or whatever. In future the ‘shared car industry’ is going to have this problem. Everyone needs a small can all week and a big car weekends and holidays. I can see them having to discount large cars midweeks which is no different to someone owning a large car.

Same goes for trains, I hate driving, I’d love to travel to work by train. I live a short walk from a station and work a mile or so from a station. On the face of it the Train ought to work for me, but in spite of nightmare traffic the Train still makes no sense. Again if I can’t make it work I can’t see how people in more rural areas can.

The one thing I do to reduce my impact on traffic and the environment is I car share, which is a mighty ball ache but just about works. (And by works I mean I’m slightly worse off, but can tolerate it for the public good, and as soon as my car share buddy stops I will feel I’ve done my bit and go back to sole occupancy.)

So I’m in a better position than most to do the right thing. I am keen to do the right thing. In spite of that I can’t make the right thing make sense for me. I think we need to stop pretending that doing the right thing is convenient and start accepting that we’re all going to have to make big sacrifices for the people to come.

I’d very much like a EV for the next car, as most of our driving is city based, but with 2 small kids and all the stuff they come with there currently seems little choice.

I would love the idea of shared use, but with the mess, car seats and general faff of a family I can’t see it taking off for a while yet. We only use our 2 cars at the same time for about an hour or so a day, but it is every day, so hire car options for a second car aren’t an option.

GlennQuagmire, this is Nissans short term solution to what is being alluded to above. re changing current mindset over car ownership. So, for 90% of journeys your 200 mile range car will be more than adequate, but for that holiday in the alps:
USE OF PETROL OR DIESEL CAR
YOU want to make extra-long journeys in your car.

NISSAN PROMISE that your selling dealer will lend you a petrol or diesel car, free of charge, for up to 14 days during the first three years of ownership. All you pay is the insurance.

This is just Nissan’s short term answer to people like DeadKenny who won’t change their ways or thinking.

My personal view of the future of electric cars is that battery tech and charging tech will continue to move on at a pace, we’ll come to a point very soon (within 5 years) where your new electric car will have range and refuelling speed similar to current ICE. My future is quite simple really, there won’t be need for millions of lampost chargers or motorway barriers that are charging your car as you drive (WTF). My near future is that EV’s will have 400+ range and people will realise it’s much more than enough for 90% of journeys. Charging will be fast enough to be done in the time it takes you to take a piss and eat a sandwich between 300+ mile stints to the alps, or 10 journeys too and from work, petrol stations will gradually change use and accommodate slightly longer refuelling times. We are already there, what has been achieved in the last few years just takes time to roll out in vehicles and infrastructure now. What’s out now is what was achieved in the lab or R&D 3-5-8 years ago.

DeadKenny’s image makes the point many are missing.

I suffer from this now and have four powerstation recently built on doorstep (within 5 miles)

Thankfully the prevailing winds blow crap back over the city, where they think they are now clean. All poncing around in there fake green cars.

Basically a SEP. Somebodies Elses Problem.

and dont forget poor bastards mining the Lithium for the batteries etc.

USE OF PETROL OR DIESEL CAR
YOU want to make extra-long journeys in your car.

NISSAN PROMISE that your selling dealer will lend you a petrol or diesel car, free of charge, for up to 14 days during the first three years of ownership. All you pay is the insurance.

14 days per month would work fine, probably OTT. I suspect they mean 14 days per year or even 14 days over the entire 3 years. That’s never going to fly.

And family holidays are hard on cars. Stuff on the roof rack, in and out covered in sand. I can drive my car to and from work 1000 times without putting a mark on it. I suspect every single family holiday my car picks up some kind of scratch/mark/ding. Do Nissan cover the excess or does the borrower?

Borrowing/hiring a car for holidays/dirty jobs is so obviously beneficial that there must be a very good reason why we don’t all do it. …and there is.

Certainly nobody is resistant to hiring cars for holidays quite the opposite. Who wouldn’t want to keep their own car spotless and return a hire car full of sand with a scuff where a kayak got dropped and some sick on the back seats? The resistance to the model isn’t from the consumer, it’s from the hire firms.

I’d love to get an electric car as our second family car. It doesn’t need to do super long journeys – we have the main car for that. It doesn’t need a large loadspace. We have a drive and could charge at home.
Ignoring the fact the there’s no way we could currently afford to buy a new car, I don’t think I could justify the cost increase to go from ICE to electric.
Using the VW UP! as an example – top of the range (not GTI) most expensive one is £13,740 on the road. The e-UP! is £20,150 on the road after the £3.5k goverment discount.
A different of over £6k and nearly 50% more expensive than ICE. That would buy more than 40,000 miles worth of petrol! (before considering the cost of buying the equivalent electricity).

So, currently I can see no financial way of justifying buying an electic car.
I know that prices will come down as take up increases and technology improves. And that it’s not all about money and it’s about whizzing round feeling good about protecting baby robins and childs faces but, it is about money really and that’s the big problem.

Correct Drac. I hire one when needed and get the appropriate one for what I am doing.

I mean maybe if people stop voting anti-clean energy parties in to power it would help…

The current lot have already canned the Swansea tidal powers station, forced through fracking, dragged there feet and new solar tariffs, put more barriers on wind and eight new nuclear plants that are either in trouble or have massively spiralling costs, while resisting any incentives like trying to get developers to put solar panels on new builds (or the very least social new builds).

it is about money really and that’s the big problem

which is why LEZ and other charges are important – pollution is not cost free it’s just that the polluter often is not the one who ends up paying.

If the owner of a £15k UP! was forced to pay per for the CO2 Nox or whatever emitted as part of the purchase price (or pump petrol prices were taxed appropriately) then the purchase and lifetime cost of the EV version would begin to look similar?

redthunder

Member
DeadKenny’s image makes the point many are missing.

But, you are just assuming people’s motivation for going EV is they give a toss about the environment?. I’d argue that for most the change will come when it becomes a financial no brainer, nowt to do with the environment (altho, everyone will cite that as one reason, to feel good about themselves). We’re doomed as a species, but before the planet melts I’d quite like to drive a car with no noise, instant torq, 0-60 in 4 secs and to become the EV bore at Jerry and Margo’s diner parties.

To answer that OP’s question:

A guy two doors down runs a catering business – he started leaving a refrigerated transit outside plugged into the mains to run the chiller, for hours at a time.

the council visited and said he had to switch it off overnight but had no issue with the cable running across the pavement if it had one of those heavy rubber ramp/guide things across it.

Is it possible, and legal, to plug a car into a domestic socket and run a cable across the pavement?

No.

HTHs

We’re a way off yet, but little, slow and often is probably best.

I’ve read the opposite from one manufacturer (officially on their website), that they only recommend using the supplied 3-pin slow charger occasionally or in emergency.

Ask Nissan how often they recommend a fast charge (a techy not a salesperson) – the answer came back “never”.

Look up rapidgate, you are not going to promote something that your cars are not that capable of. Some software updates have improved things, but the fact remains that their 2018 Leaf doesn’t have proper battery state management tech, ie some sort of fan system or liquid cooling system, to maintain heavily loaded batteries at ideal temp.

Same goes for trains, I hate driving, I’d love to travel to work by train. I live a short walk from a station and work a mile or so from a station. On the face of it the Train ought to work for me, but in spite of nightmare traffic the Train still makes no sense.

Why doesn’t the train make sense? Those sound like my circumstances and I wouldn’t dream of driving to work.

The current lot have already canned the Swansea tidal powers station

Did you see the subsidies and handouts that the guys planing the tidal scheme wanted? Not every cowboy runs a bike company, some of them think on a far bigger scale.

But, you are just assuming people’s motivation for going EV is they give a toss about the environment?.

Well people switched to Diesel cars in their droves despite them being more expensive to buy, diesel being more expensive than Petrol and it taking at least 40k miles of driving for the fuel economy benefits to financially compensate you for the additional costs of making the switch. So people are actually quite amenable to switching to other technologies even if they are not cost effective for other softer reasons like them being better for the environment (even though Diesels aren’t).