Echo chamber?

I disagree with you, robustly

I disagree with you, robustly

I disagree with you, robustly

etc

It’s an echo chamber and has the propensity for the typical internet pile on. That’s just my view. I’ll now avoid certain threads as it can at times be pretty uncomfortable reading.

But there is a myriad of different people from different backgrounds, so it’s an incredibly useful resource, just need to learn to know what threads to ignore.

A huge variety of views.....

Maybe, but not when it comes to politics.

As @w00dster says, and this forum is probably one of the worst I use for it.

Depends on the topic.

Not many people promoting anti-vaxx, climate change denial, anti-immigation, pro Trump views on here.

Certain threads have an Echo chamber mentality but it's easy to filter those out.

Even in politics IMO  OK few tories  but loads of representation from centre right to far left to green unionist and scots nationalist

I remember when I was a child in rural Ireland my cousin had an echo chamber but it turned out it was a steel cesspit.

Even in politics IMO

Every political thread can be summed up thus : "we all hate the Tories, we all hate brexit".

It's hardly "a huge variety of views".

It's what might be described as an echo chamber.

the politic threads, incl the covid one, are pretty terrible for it

its not that there isnt good information and potential for debate in there, but the topics draw in the standard STW Big Hitters, who literally dare 'anyone' to think differently... im genuinely impressed that anyone can be bothered.

that said, it looks like less than 10% of the front page this morning

OK few tories

There's probably more than there appear to be - but any right wing opinions get shut down rapidly to the point where people can't be arsed to post and drift away from threads?

We all hate the tories has some truth but we all hate brexit is not so.  the place is full of either brexiteers or folk who don't care about brexit

Edit - look at the kicking I get for insisting brexit is the single most important political issue.

the place is full of either brexiteers or folk who don’t care about brexit

LOL

Ernie - as above - look at the kicking I got on the political threads for stating brexit is the number one political issue.  You are a brexiteer and many others consider it irrelevant now wheras I consider it of top importance

I would now consider folk like rone, Dazh and Binners as brexiteers as they have accepted it

anti-vaxx, climate change denial,

The absence of counterfactuals doesn't make it an echo chamber, the absence of conflicting opinions does.

Not many people promoting...
...anti-immigation, pro Trump views on here

But yeah, it's an echo chamber. Very very echoey.

Definitely contains different views from mine. Well, actually there are 2 posters in this thread - I don't even read what they post! And once they're involved in a thread, I usually don't even read it anymore*. Cos they are always right, never wrong. Not ever. To themselves.
So I say not an echo chamber.

*like this one, from now 😆

Yes STW has a white male middle class conservative ( small “c”)

It’s funny. As someone who fits that description perfectly, I perceive STW as extremely left wing and the exact opposite of that. So much so, I don’t bother participating in many discussions to put a conservative view point because, as someone else mentioned, there’s always a “f-you effing Tory” pile-on. I suspect I’m not the only one.

Every political thread can be summed up thus : “we all hate the Tories, we all hate brexit”.

It’s hardly “a huge variety of views”.

It’s what might be described as an echo chamber.

Although that may be somewhat representative of society.  Not necessarily because they do all hate the Tories or Brexit but because they are too embarrassed to admit voting for the current government or the disaster that Brexit has become (yes many people warned it would be such, but it didn't need to be - there were many flavours of Brexit that could have been negotiated even after the 2016 vote).

Is it an echo chamber? probably to some extent - but whilst seeing a different side of an argument can be helpful or interesting, pointlessly arguing on the internet about it probably helps noone.

Reposting what I put in the Greta vs Tate smackdown thread, as it seems more relevant here:

**

I want cake and eat it, I guess. I value STW for it’s breadth of expertise, not just bikes but I’ve had advice from geriatric nurses (specialty, not that they’re geriatric!), teachers, Uni admissions staff, firefighters….. various others, all in the last year. True Subject Matter Experts, who freely provide advice when asked. We have an amazing knowledge base on here.

I’ve also listened to opinion based debates and in some cases had my opinion altered or totally changed by debate (possibly happening right now) – so i want to hear counter views and to chew the fat with them. But in the right way, and at times debating on both sides turns into who shouts loudest or the internet equivalent of death by wordcount.

Is debating with conspiracy theorists, trolls, etc. adding to the experience. I don’t know – but there can be a fine line between a contentious but well held view and the bad-actors, and if the risk of banning the bad-actors too readily is we don’t get to hear the contentious alternatives, I’d be wary of that.

And while I’ve tried as a NY resolution to not get dragged into arguing with trolls, sometimes it’s fun to poke a bit.

Yes, it can go a bit dog-pile at times, but is that really the mentality of STW or just a natural response to the next iteration of whoever it is peddling the same old anti-vaxx stuff and a lack of patience of having to debate it nicely all over again.

politics or any "serious" threads are a total echo chamber. Anyone with contrasting views is bullied/bored off. I won't say by who. 😉

I just stick to the fun/wot I made/how do I fix this posts these days. Or the odd one about bikes.

I would now consider folk like rone, Dazh and Binners as brexiteers as they have accepted it

We're Brexiteers now are we. Erm... ok.

We've just accepted the reality of the situation. We all know its an absolute cluster-**** but unfortunately we're stuck with it. I don't like it any more than you do, but thats democracy for you. It aint changing any time soon, if ever

The most pressing issues this country faces are made considerably worse by Brexit, but they're not caused by it. They're caused by 13 years of utterly corrupt and incompetent government, totally incapable of dealing with these things properly

With or without Brexit, we'd still be pretty much in the same boat. So endlessly banging on about it (and Scottish independence) won't change a bloody thing

Good job it's not all politics then. Yeah, definitely a good job.
ok, from now.

It’s funny. As someone who fits that description perfectly, I perceive STW as extremely left wing and the exact opposite of that.

Whereas I see it as right wing 🙂  centre right not hard right but other than a few noisy folk ( ernie, rone, Dazh ) the consensus view from where I sit is centre right.

We’re Brexiteers now are we. Erm… ok.

We’ve just accepted the reality of the situation. We all know its an absolute cluster-**** but unfortunately we’re stuck with it. I don’t like it any more than you do, but thats democracy for you. It aint changing any time soon, if ever

The most pressing issues this country faces are made considerably worse by Brexit, but they’re not caused by it. They’re caused by 13 years of utterly corrupt and incompetent government, totally incapable of dealing with these things properly

With or without Brexit, we’d still be pretty much in the same boat. So endlessly banging on about it (and Scottish independence) won’t change a bloody thing

Yay! Let's turn this into another brexit thread! 😉

BY accepting brexit binners and by constantly telling folk to shut up about it you have become brexiteers in my view - same journey as Starmer. From remainer to brexiteer

It's not an echo chamber, there is no algorithm pushing similar content at the viewer to displace their perception of topicality. A bunch of people privileged enough to have spare time and cash to ride overpriced bicycles around in circles in the woods is however a selective demographic in the broadest terms...and yet there's enough disagreement on most things in here for it still to be interesting. An echo chamber isn't just when right wing views fall apart under the merest scrutiny.

It's already been said but it's mostly the politics threads that I avoid. I look in occasionally to see what opinions are being expressed but they rarely change. There have been a few recent posts by folk just deciding to put their heads in the sand and get on with their own lives. That's basically where I'm at.

I'm still surprised at the number of folk I see posting on the likes of the politics threads who never seem to post on anything bike related. I can't help feeling that folk who care enough to post 20/30 times a day about politics really are wasting their time on here if they really care that much but it's obvious some care more about "winning" an online argument than actually trying to effect any change.

Yay! Let’s turn this into another brexit thread! 😉

To be fair he had just been labelled a brexiteer through someone else's odd logic 😀

I can’t help feeling that folk who care enough to post 20/30 times a day about politics really are wasting their time on here if they really care that much but it’s obvious some care more about “winning” an online argument than actually trying to effect any change.

Its a waste of time but for me a part of it is about trying to understand those views.  I don't care about "winning"

There is a lot of insults thrown about which IMO is the end of a debate. Xyz is a ****, Tories are ****s, Brexit voters are stupid.

It's pretty immature imo when it come to decision. You don't have to like an opinion, you don't have to agree with an opinion but you need to try to drill down to underlying logical axioms or emotional "scars" or "baggage". It's important to except that most decisions are not logical. Even many who claim to be logical in their decision are not 100%. Recognise and except this within ourselves. Ruminate, not react.

All of the insults produce a shut down of opinion as people become either don't want to out them selves as xyz or are afraid of saying something because they will be called a closet xyz if their opinion doesn't follow the current trend of opinion in the thread.

An echo chamber isn’t just when right wing views fall apart under the merest scrutiny.

Well right-wing views obviously don't fall apart under the merest scrutiny, which helps to explain why the Tories have governed longer than any other political party in the UK. And why conservative parties do quite well in Europe and across the rest of the world.

Right-wing views need to be challenged robustly, they don't just fall apart under the merest scrutiny. You obviously can't do that in an echo chamber.

BY accepting brexit binners and by constantly telling folk to shut up about it you have become brexiteers in my view – same journey as Starmer. From remainer to brexiteer

Is like calling you a Russian Nationalist because you've accepted that you can't personally go out to Ukraine and fight.

Personally I'd say you were quite right wing as a property landlord. The problem with this forum is it's fashionable to be lefty and environmental, which means everyone sits there telling everyone they're left from behind their keyboard right up until someone suggests actually doing something lefty/environmental at which point they backpedal and stat espousing trickle down economics and a rising tide lifts all boats etc.

Politically, it's a huge echo chamber.
Very anti-Brexit, very anti-Tory, very pro-vax, very pro Covid measures.
There's shades of grey within that, centre left to hard(er) left. People who don't like Brexit but have accepted it to those who think it should be revered today. Very little anti-vax sentiment and there was a general support of the control measures, and a hesitancy to support their removal. Just look at the pile-ons to anyone who broke lockdown or questioned the rules.
But they are shades of grey around the same viewpoint.
Anyone with views outside of that is pretty quickly shut down.

There's plenty differing opinions, but a core group of big hitters give the impression of an echo chamber imo.
Scared, angry, aggressive, woke guys with seemingly unlimited time. There's about ten or so who turn many threads into a schoolboy piley on. Arguing with them is a futile excercise so once they appear en masse I'd just avoid the thread.

Thanks goodness that otherwise, STW forum is a fantastic place full of compassion and a truly remarkable breadth of knowledge willingly shared.
I'd count the guys mentioned above as part of that positivity, as long as you're on their 'side'.

Covers a reasonable range of opinions within a fairly limited demographic. I'm here for bike geekery mainly though.

Not many people promoting anti-vaxx, climate change denial, anti-immigation, pro Trump views on here.

Though I don't spend much time on the non-bike side of things here this does seems true. I expect cycling is a filter to some extent even if it's not very diverse. It brings many people in through something that's got green and liberal base or influences. Same as some sports might be a filter the other way, the more tribal team sports perhaps.

Every political thread can be summed up thus : “we all hate the Tories, we all hate brexit”.

It’s hardly “a huge variety of views”.

It’s what might be described as an echo chamber.

If that were true, the people whining about it wouldn't be posting.

Doubly so about things they claim they never post about.

There’s about ten or so who turn many threads into a schoolboy piley on

STW - Same Ten ****ers? : )

I expect cycling is a filter to some extent even if it’s not very diverse. It brings many people in through something that’s got green and liberal base or influences. Same as some sports might be a filter the other way, the more tribal team sports perhaps.

Ooh. Good point. Does anyone frequent DartBoardWorld? I'd love to hear their opinions about cyclists 🤣

It’s funny. As someone who fits that description perfectly, I perceive STW as extremely left wing and the exact opposite of that. So much so, I don’t bother participating in many discussions to put a conservative view point because, as someone else mentioned, there’s always a “f-you effing Tory” pile-on. I suspect I’m not the only one.

I'd be happy for you to expand on what you see as the positives for the country from the past 12 years of Conservative government, and why I should vote for Rishi Sunak in the next General Election.

To put that another way,

There is a difference between being in an echo chamber and simply having unpopular opinions. An echo chamber is a closed system, it seeks to actively expel dissent. STW isn't an echo chamber, there's nothing stopping anyone from expressing their views so long as they're legal. A poster might be in the minority but, well... there's generally a reason for that.

Biggest leftie echo chamber of any sites I've ever visited.
I genuinely don't know why the site owners think this is enhancing their product when it does the exact opposite in my view.

@enderovend , in terms of it being an echo chamber, I think this is in reference to the fact that if you don't repeat certain mantra's then you are piled on. So people give up and no longer engage on the topic. The only voices left are the same people, ready to tell the next person that they are unequivocally wrong. Then another 4 or 5 people will join in telling them they were also wrong.....sometimes it will descent to the point of being rude, other times it may peter out if the new voice leaves quietly.
As mentioned I no longer engage or read certain topics - believe it or not, but the rugby thread is a great example of this. Partisan views where the authors are unable to give a balanced opinion.....(My mum is Irish and my dad Welsh, I consider myself Welsh as it was where I was brought up, but the anti English sentiment in there is at times plain silly, I don't mind banter but that thread clearly wasn't trying to be humorous)

There is a lot of insults thrown about which IMO is the end of a debate. Xyz is a *, Tories are *, Brexit voters are stupid.

It’s pretty immature imo when it come to decision. You don’t have to like an opinion, you don’t have to agree with an opinion but you need to try to drill down to underlying logical axioms or emotional “scars” or “baggage”. It’s important to except that most decisions are not logical. Even many who claim to be logical in their decision are not 100%. Recognise and except this within ourselves. Ruminate, not react.

All of the insults produce a shut down of opinion as people become either don’t want to out them selves as xyz or are afraid of saying something because they will be called a closet xyz if their opinion doesn’t follow the current trend of opinion in the thread.

Good post and taken in.

Biggest leftie echo chamber of any sites I’ve ever visited.
I genuinely don’t know why the site owners think this is enhancing their product when it does the exact opposite in my view.

And yet, here you are. Echoing.

🤷‍♂️

The site owners don't control the forum content. Never have. It's the userbase that directs the forum content.