I’d be tempted to just hire a bike bike out there. In Les Arcs there were loads of big travel coil sprung monsters for around €70 per day. I think a day or two on one of those and the rest on your five would be a good compromise. I wished for a little more travel up front on my Heckler but truth be told the bike was not the limiting factor.

I’d be tempted to just hire a bike bike out there. In Les Arcs there were loads of big travel coil sprung monsters for around €70 per day.

With a season of abuse.

I’m an ex-mechanic and confessed bike snob – I’d spend half the day fettling and the other half moaning. 😉

Lots of different opinions here, as forcefully expressed as you’d expect on STW.

But I think if you’ve got an itch for a DH bike and you can afford to scratch it then why not?

I’ve got a 180mm freeride bike that I was struggling to click with until I had a three-week holiday with it in the Alps just now.

Happily I’ve now found the trails that it suits perfectly – but unfortunately there’s not a great deal of lift-accessed switchbacky, technical singletrack or 30 minute “freeride” runs with 1000m+ vertical drop in the UK.

So I’m building up a proper DH bike (with an eye on the resale value) to scratch the itch that I still seem to have anyway.

🙂

Looking on the classifieds now. Love the idea of an old Patriot (the ’08 is a gorgeous looking bike), but figure realistically that already owning a Five, I may as well take the plunge good and proper and go for a full rig.

Are you going for a 224 then?

I know of a 15″ frame for sale, drop me an email if interested.

do not think of the time riding. think of the extra stength and fitness gained from the push up and the extra grins during and after. 🙂

Really wish folks would stop using the term ”UK downhill bike” :evil:. As if downhills here in the UK were some pale and unworthy poor relation of the ‘proper’ gnarr outside of the UK.

We have steep, we have roots and ruts, we have rocks, we have braking bumps, we have high speed flat-out. We just don’t have comparable length of run. But length of run doesn’t come into the arguement. 2-3 minutes is more than enough to start feeling the effects of a decent DH run if you’re trying hard enough.

And for those who believe that somewhere in the 5-7″ travel range somehow constitutes this mythical ‘ideal UK DH bike’, a DH bike is about more than travel, whether it’s 6, 7, 8 or even 10 inches. It’s about ultimate stability and ultimate geometry and feeling like you have a piece of equipment singularly designed for the task in hand with no compromises. A feeling you can achieve easily on local UK DH trails as well as the national level tracks.

Are you going for a 224 then?

I know of a 15″ frame for sale, drop me an email if interested.

I’d realistically look a little larger as I’m 6ft.

I appear to be buying a ti hardtail frame as well… 😯

The DH will have to wait for the new year. 🙁

pmj in les arcs the hire bikes were in good nick bar the bent seat

brakes and gears were all sweet – they were commencals supreme 8s …

Certainly didnt get the seal of approval from the hirer though as his bike frame snapped while climbing he had to hire and the downhill bike did not make the downhills any better than on his five-esque bike.

if you havnt had a dh bike before dont be under the illusion youll ride it anywhere …. they are a complete PIG to go anywhere other than down …

if you havnt had a dh bike before dont be under the illusion youll ride it anywhere …. they are a complete PIG to go anywhere other than down …

I know. First time I rode one I thought it had a flat tyre as I scooted along to the top of the run – turns out it was just 3″ of sag and a super-tacky tyre. 😉

Really wish folks would stop using the term ”UK downhill bike” :evil:. As if downhills here in the UK were some pale and unworthy poor relation of the ‘proper’ gnarr outside of the UK.

Last time I checked, Fort Bill was very much in the UK. 😉

Maybe it should be renamed ‘southern DH bike’?

(and I say that as a southerner)

Maybe it should be renamed ‘southern DH bike’

ha ha met a guide in france who said – you see all these DH riders fully kitted up who cant ride – must be southerners !(his words not mine – made me laugh though)

Guilty as charged, m’lud. 😳

(although I did work as a guide in Chamonix and Kitzbuhel back in 2003, so not *that* guilty) 😉

uk trails are generally smoother (fort bill maybe excepted) and less vicious on a bike than stuff in the alps\canada though. If only because they don’t have nearly as much traffic so the braking bumps are way less vicious..

if I were speccing the perfect bike (for me) to ride every dh trail in the UK, it’d be significantly shorter travel than the perfect bike to ride all of the trails in portes du solil

And yet, most racers are still doing it on big bikes. Few exceptions but if you look at the field and the podium of UK events you’ll not see an awful lot of these “UK DH bikes”.

OTOH Jesse Wigman came 8th at Fort William on saturday on a hardtail.

quite. I suspect that talks more to the skill of riders, and the ‘magpie effect’ of ‘big’ dh bikes (which are often a price point above the ‘mini dh’ bikes) than anything else?

Having a proper dh bike for racing makes sense as every second counts.

Unless you live reasonably near to one of the uplifts in the uk, I don’t think it’s the best option. If you can afford one, great go for it, but a shorter travel bike that you can pedal uphill will do the job almost as well and would probably be more fun for 95% of the tracks in the uk.

uk trails are generally smoother (fort bill maybe excepted) and less vicious on a bike than stuff in the alps\canada though. If only because they don’t have nearly as much traffic so the braking bumps are way less vicious..

Sorry you’re just not right there. Be more specific…if we’re talking about DH bikes then we’re talking about downhill trails. I’m thinking Fort William, Glencoe, Dunkeld, Nant G, Llangollen, even tracks the likes of Alwinton and parts of Innerliethen…

Only be riding these on a downhill bike will you understand why the downhill bike is the right tool for these tracks. And, catagorically, they have everything that France or Canada can offer to necessitate a downhill bike with the exception of length.

And I’ll say it again. Travel is only half the story, it’s also about angles, geometry and the strength/security of the extra weight and mass of the downhill bike below you.

If you can justify buying one, do it. But if not please look for another excuse than ”UK downhill tracks don’t merit it” because the real DH tracks do!

yeah gawton super tavi and egypt is as rough as anything in the alps.

ha ha met a guide in france who said – you see all these DH riders fully kitted up who cant ride – must be southerners !(his words not mine – made me laugh though)

hope you told him Brendan is riding without an ACL and Gee is just having bad luck with mechanicals 😉

And I’ll say it again. Travel is only half the story, it’s also about angles, geometry and the strength/security of the extra weight and mass of the downhill bike below you.

Agreed.

I was in a similar position recently. Ive just returned from living in Socal, daily ride was a Demo 8, perfect for the stuff we were riding. Generally the other guys were on V-10s and older Giant Glorys, so big plough bikes. Trails were big chunk, 10 – 20ft drops and some big rock gardens.

Before I came back I gave some thought as to what I should bring back. I swapped the Demo for a freeride build. A KHS Lucky 7, exaxtly the same frame as the Azonic B-52 over here. I tried to build it up as light,as possible so it would be ‘kind’ of rideable. Zochi 66s (180mm), swapped the Van R coil for a Roco WC air can, light DH wheelset but still 1×9. Came in about 38lbs. I could just get away with taking it on the AM trails.

That for me is perfect for session days at Woburn, Chicksands and Aston.

Worth look at something similar, SC Bullit, Demo 7, SC VP Free with a 180mm fork.

Pics of the Lucky 7.

yup give me a slack head angle/decent forks over 8 inches of travel any day.

yup give me a slack head angle/decent forks over 8 inches of travel any day.

^^ Or, even better, all 3 of the above!!! 🙂

b a c o n: a bike for riding in mountains then? What a novel idea! 😉

Looks spot on for somewhere like Aston.

I’ve just got back from my alps trip and am now thinking about swapping my Turner RFX for a slacker angled frame too. I’d like the frame to be a bit smaller and slacker. Travel wise 160/180mm. I’m having doubts though as I’m worried I’ll just be stuck with a bike I won’t ride. Suggestions on frames would be very much appreciated.

Ahem, I’ve just decided to sell my Lapierre Froggy as it happens Andy.

It has a smallish frame and 180mm travel front and rear…

Drop me an email if it may be of interest – otherwise I’m sorry for the spam!

Otherwise an Alpine or the new Patriot?

*awakes flaming*

Sorry you’re just not right there. Be more specific…if we’re talking about DH bikes then we’re talking about downhill trails. I’m thinking Fort William, Glencoe, Dunkeld, Nant G, Llangollen, even tracks the likes of Alwinton and parts of Innerliethen…

i’m not talking about dh bikes vs play bikes. I’m talking about dh bikes vs ‘mini dh bikes’ – which to my mind have the same angles, give or take, but 7-8″ rear travel instead of ~10. The alps and Canada have far more repetetive braking bumps, some of which get pretty big, and I find they’re generally ‘faster’ (ie average speed over the course) compared to the UK coursed. I find a big travel bike helps, whereas the UK tracks I’ve never found 7″ of travel wanting

i’m not talking about dh bikes vs play bikes. I’m talking about dh bikes vs ‘mini dh bikes’ – which to my mind have the same angles, give or take, but 7-8″ rear travel instead of ~10

Most DH bikes have settled around the 8″ mark though, bar the odd exceptions?

I struggle to see the point of a Mini DH/Freeride bike, when a decent 160mm bike will do it just as well, weigh a shed load less, and you can ride it on anything that doesn’t just point downwards.

Most DH bikes have settled around the 8″ mark though, bar the odd exceptions?

I struggle to see the point of a Mini DH/Freeride bike, when a decent 160mm bike will do it just as well, weigh a shed load less, and you can ride it on anything that doesn’t just point downwards.

well a lot of the manufacturers who offer a mini dh bike (at around 8″ travel, like orange, santa cruz, intense) also offer a full dh race bike with 10″ travel. They normally have similar angles, but are a bit smaller and cheaper than the big models.

I do see an advantage of the bikes existing. A driver 8 for example rides very differently do a bullet, despite only having 1.1″ difference in travel. The bullet would ride along/up hill better, but the driver would kick its arse down a slope

Wasn’t the driver a bit of a flop? Never actualy seen one outside the LBS window display and the Dirt review reckoned their V10 with a stiffer spring made a better 8″ bike.

The latest buzz-word seems to be super-enduro bikes, so whereas a 150mm bike is now ‘enduro’, you now need a 170mm bike for the Mega!

I’m talking about dh bikes vs ‘mini dh bikes’ – which to my mind have the same angles, give or take

False. Angles are not the same they are different! Please tell me of a mini-dh bike with the same angles as a current DH bike**

but 7-8″ rear travel instead of ~10

False again. 8″ is the teritory of DH bikes, full stop. Again, which mini-DH bikes have 8″ travel?**

well a lot of the manufacturers who offer a mini dh bike (at around 8″ travel, like orange, santa cruz, intense) also offer a full dh race bike with 10″ travel. They normally have similar angles, but are a bit smaller and cheaper than the big models.

Ehh? I’m totally lost now, i think you’re getting mixed up. Again await to be educated as to which mini-DH bikes are being offered by SC, Intense or Orange with 8inches of travel??
And 10″ is really only the preserve of SC (V10) and Intense(M6/M9) on the VPP platform and even these also now come adjustable down to 8″.

**caveat that Transition now offer a proper mini-DH bike in the TR250, an awesome frame that might actually offer all the things you are talking about (blend of travel, angles and geometry) in a ‘non-Dh specific’ package. But this is a recent addition to the frame market and the only real contender for this that I can think of – so is currently the exception to the rule.

False. Angles are not the same they are different! Please tell me of a mini-dh bike with the same angles as a current DH bike**

to me mini DH bikes should have less than 6″ travel (way less if I’m honest)but should retain DH geometry and strength so I happen to have a 4.5″ travel mini DH bike with a 65deg HA and 12.6″ BB and an 8″ DH bike with a 64.5deg HA and 13.6 BB height.
I only know of one current strong, short travel frame that will work out to similar geometry to mine with a 5″ fork.. and guess what? it’s just the current incarnation of what I have. it’s a shame no one seems to understand why short travel bikes like these can ride so well.

The way I ride I’d actually prefer to have a 7″ fork and shorter shock on my proper DH bike giving around 7.25″ travel, a slightly slacker H/A and lower BB but haven’t seen a suitable shorter shock and no one makes a decent 7″ dual crown fork but even with 7″ F&R it wouldn’t be a mini DH bike.

GW – I totally agree with you. My next bike is liklely to be something along these lines if i can justify the indulgence on top of my TR450 and Enduro. Point is though, there are few offerings out there which fit this bill and as you say it is likely the perfect bike to achieve all of this this would be something around 5″ and with burly tubing and a slack HA / low BB from the factory – but increased with an aftermarket mod such as a shortened shock / offset bushings / offset cups (or a comonation of these). The mini-DH bikes people have alluded to on this thread are in most cases actually FR bikes (7″) or possibly even heavy trail/enduro bikes.

LOL @ ‘mini downhill bikes’

Oh what crap the marketing departments spew out these days!

What happens when a bike was regarded as a ‘long travel downhill bike’, yet compared to modern bikes, only has 150mm of travel, classing it as a ‘mini downhill bike’ ?

I only know of one current strong, short travel frame that will work out to similar geometry to mine with a 5″ fork.. and guess what? it’s just the current incarnation of what I have. it’s a shame no one seems to understand why short travel bikes like these can ride so well.

Blood?

Slack head angle, 5″ at the back but capable of taking a 160mm fork nae bother…

Xiphon – if you are taking about back when 150mm rear travel was the norm for a DH raced bike, most of those frames would be no use as a mini-DH bike as the frames were heavier than an 8″ frame is now, the suspension quality was often poor and the geometry was often not great. (think higher BBs and steeper HAs)

PJ – No not a Blood, a Blood’s HA would be about 67deg with a 5″ fork.. (I wouldn’t really want a 160mm single crown when I’d be happy with 170mm on my “proper” DH bike)

My Patriot LT rides quite nicely with 150mm 36s up front… suspension is simple but effective….. geo is pretty dialled too….. and it’s quite light.

Anywhere I ride on the 222, I will also ride on the Patriot…nearly as quick… so yes, I’d class it as a ‘mini downhill bike’ by that standard… just have to take a slightly different line choice sometimes…

Perhaps Orange were way ahead of their time?