Donald! Trump!

ninfan – there should be a Like button for your post.

Not that I agree with much/any of it but it’s the most sensible and thought-out response I’ve seen from you on this thread. If only the debate could be kept at that level, rather than the “LOLZ at the Lefties” thing, I might do more than occasionally drop in :lol:

Scotroutes – thing is, I’m all up for serious debate, but you can’t do that with people who have histrionically convinced themselves that Trump is literally firing up the crematoria.

The key thing is Trump is not rational. He is incapable of rational thought because of his obvious personality disorder and you need to view his actions in this light

He is incapable of rational thought because of his obvious personality disorder

See what I mean?

Also true – it’s not all one-sided.

+1 – I disagree with most of it, but glad I asked the question as it’s something worth discussing rather than the usual playground level taunting.

I think that’s similar to the reason a lot of people voted for him – a protest vote against the establishment if you like. The important question though is whether he’s actually going to achieve any of that, and what harm he is going to do in the process. Or is he just filling the swamp with even bigger monsters. I don’t believe he actually has the interests of those people in mind, he’s only interested in them voting for him.

Regards Muslim ban etc- like it or not, Wahhabist Islam, as a religion, has some truly horrible aspects within its community and implementation that are incompatible with western liberal society (attitudes on women and homosexuality for example)

Which is again a fair point. However it has little to do with the ban which is knee jerk politics at its worst. The ban makes no difference at all to such societies, and the claim has never been made that it will – the claim is that it will make the US safer by preventing “bad people” coming in. As has been pointed out numerous times if you really wanted to achieve that then you’d ban people coming from countries which have supplied terrorists to the USA, like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Hence in reality it is just pandering to prejudices.

If the intent is deconstruct and rebuild, and to make them concentrate science and regulatory work rather than as a political lobbyist, this might not be a bad thing. Of course if the goal was, in the alternative, merely to reduce/weaken regulation, then it’s different.

:lol: – what do you reckon the aim is based on the evidence so far? Is it likely to be more science based with Pruitt in charge?

See the recent NOAA whistleblower stuff as an example.

what this one ? [/url]

The important question though is whether he’s actually going to achieve any of that, and what harm he is going to do in the process. Or is he just filling the swamp with even bigger monsters. I don’t believe he actually has the interests of those people in mind, he’s only interested in them voting for him.

The cynic would say that you could judge much of that by how loud they squal, and how hard they are fighting against him. Look at JFK ;)
As for Trumps actions, it’s tough, because he really was saying much of this stuff years and years ago, long before there was any voters interested:

In fact, the consistency in what he’s been saying is pretty remarkable

what do you reckon the aim is based on the evidence so far? Is it likely to be more science based with Pruitt in charge?

Or Happer as science advisor, or Perry as energy secretary? Again we are left wondering how a reasonable person could support Trump?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/01/13/trump-meets-with-princeton-physicist-who-says-global-warming-is-good-for-us/?utm_term=.1fff73398d8f

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/rick-perry-seeks-to-lead-the-energy-department-an-agency-he-pledged-to-abolish/2017/01/18/19b14494-dd0a-11e6-acdf-14da832ae861_story.html?utm_term=.ffc07dcb58f8

if Donald is upsetting and frightening people who have held the reins of power for decades, then he must be doing something right

Not necessarily as – forgive the goodwin- but I assume this was said about hitler what really matter sis what he is trying to do once he has “shaken them up” that is clearly to make them more like Putins russia – in terms of his power – and less rational – as indicated by his appointments to key areas like the “global warming cult” arguments. I am not sure moving to a more autocratic less fact based approach is something anyone should really want.

Regards Muslim ban etc- like it or not, Wahhabist Islam, as a religion, has some truly horrible aspects within its community and implementation that are incompatible with western liberal society (attitudes on women and homosexuality for example)

This is true and were the US actually trying to dos something he might even get some broad appeal as no one is supportive of this type of islam. However one would assume that the first response would be to deal with Saudi- it is the state religion after all – where this all started/centres/revolves rather than target other countries in order to look tough and appeal to the redknecks.
This will neither make america nor the world safer.

IMHO this has been done as it has to be a success politically as whilst immoral is astute in political terms.

1. No attacks – see it worked
2. Attacks – see i told you we needed to do it those liberals tried to stop me making america safe etc – all despots need a reason to remove civil liberties/erode congress or the power of judges.

IMHO the reason is more likely for the later

Trump is not the bogeyman but he is an irrational anti science populist ego maniac with poor sexual morality and a poor moral code. I see no reason to like that even if he was left wing and I would like to think was he a firebrand lefty with links to russian hacking to get in power i would be equally appalled even though I might appreciate his aims more.

https://www.ft.com/content/d9d6f33a-e6c5-11e6-967b-c88452263daf
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/04/saudi-arabia-ground-troops-syria-fight-isis
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-saudi-arabia-king-salman-abdulaziz-al-saud-agree-safe-zones-syria-yemen-a7553341.html

coincidence?

Ninfan – he obviously has a personality disorder tho and its so obvious multiple US psychiatrists have gone on record stating this as its so concerning to them.

Once you understand this its much easier to understand his actions. Personality disorders are common especially in politics and at the top levels of business.

He is an absolutely classic case

I can’t think of a better person to make me happy by pissing people I don’t like off (best reason ever for supporting this muppet). At least he’s doing his bit for US safety by letting everyone have access to a gun.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38986147
At least no one is hurt… Yet! :roll:

I said a few pages ago the NRA must be loving having their best mate in office. Now it is bearing fruit:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38986147

People with mental illnesses buying guns: What could go wrong?

Watching Chanel 4 news, what’s striking about Trumps ‘team’ is that the (melted Stepford) women, with their fixed rictus grins, are even more terrifyingly unhinged than the blokes 8O

If he is doing everything he said he would do during the campaign when is he going to release his taxes?

If he is doing everything he said he would do during the campaign when is he going to release his taxes?

He won’t because we’ll find out that he’s not actually that wealthy.

he obviously has a personality disorder tho

A fair few would argue you are based on how you used to be on here :wink:

Ouch

Worth reading what the man who, literally, wrote the book says:

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/10/14551890/trump-mental-health-narcissistic-personality

“Call him a liar, call him evil, call him a threat to democracy, call him impulsive, call him ignorant — these labels are all absolutely true — but saying he has a mental disorder doesn’t really add force to the argument,” Frances says.

Basically he says it has not all come crashing down yet so until it does he is not mentally ill and only when he has seen him face to face

Its basically a defence of the goldwater rule- not an unreasonable position

this seemed pretty fair tbh

I called Joshua Miller, a psychologist who directs the University of Georgia’s clinical training program and studies the differences between personality and disorder, for a third perspective. He says that in many cases, it can be hard to tell where personality ends and illness begins.

That’s because these days most mental illnesses exist on a spectrum. “Even disorders we thought … you either had it or not — categorical things like schizophrenia — we now know are much more like spectrum disorders,” he says. “You can have some schizophrenic traits, but not all.” And that’s especially true of personality disorders, which he says are all just extreme manifestations of otherwise “normal” personality traits.

The question What is a mental disorder? he says is “probably one of the most intractable debates that exists. And it’s playing out with Trump now.”

We can probably all agree Trump is it at the extreme * end of many traits hence the debate

* Literally at the furthest extent/far degree not as in his policies being extreme right wing etc.

He has a great idea that is going to resolve the Israel/Palestine shite.
After lunch he’ll probably do Syria, I guess.
Nothing wrong with him, no siree!

#trumpcares

#altfact

Alternative fact = inflate cave tart.

oops

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/15/politics/top-senate-republicans-urge-white-house-to-withdraw-puzder-nomination/index.html

ninfan – Member

Ouch

I don’t understand what the “ouch” is for. The man makes some very valid points :

Psychologists don’t have such a rule, and Frances — who supports the Goldwater Rule and generally thinks mental illnesses are overdiagnosed — worries that when the petitioners and others call Trump mentally ill, they stigmatize people with psychological problems. They can also distract from the more objective criticisms you can make of his presidency. “Call him a liar, call him evil, call him a threat to democracy, call him impulsive, call him ignorant — these labels are all absolutely true — but saying he has a mental disorder doesn’t really add force to the argument,” Frances says.

What’s wrong with that? Most people would agree that Adolf Hitler probably had some fairly serious mental health issues, but should we focus Hitler’s mental health or other issues such as his policy of gassing Jews?

I think we know the answer to that question.

Although obviously many people on the far right would dispute the claim that Adolf Hitler had any mental health issues, or even that he was responsible for gassing Jews. Some of them are likely to be Trump supporters btw, but you know that.

Well a quick mornming look at the twitter feeds, we finally seem to have apolicy of jobs
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/schedule/register/melbourne-fl-2017/
Yep thats right he is going to hold a rally, sounds very practical. I assume shouting and hollering are obligatory and everyone will get a free job at the end?
also from Twitter

Donald J. Trump ?@realDonaldTrump 11h11 hours ago
More
The fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred. @MSNBC & @CNN are unwatchable. @foxandfriends is great!

What’s that if you agree with the President you are great, as always Murdoch knows which bum hole (get somebody else) to crawl up, and then back to bashing the messenger for daring to leak that he knew all about his Man chatting away to the Russians when he shouldn’t have been and all the time doing nothing about it despite being warned he was a serious security risk. Oh no it’s the nasty media and intellegance people at fault again…
I guess when the truth is embarressing and political poison it’s best to try for a diversion.

Regards Muslim ban etc- like it or not, Wahhabist Islam, as a religion, has some truly horrible aspects

Indeed, makes one wonder why the ban effects countries that are not deobandhi in their outlook. Especially Iran which isn’t even Sunni!!

personality disorder is not a mental illness! Its a developmental abnormality ie a wiring fault. Or you can call it a mental disorder but it is not an illness. You are born with it and you die with it and it cannot be treated or changed

Half a dozen prominent psychiatrists have said this publicly and its absolutely obvious he has one.

Junkyard – I may have autistic traits which is another developmental abnormality but no way do I have a personality disorder

Perhaps he could see the stats and work out what’s really killing Americans
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
1,942 Dead in 47 Days

religious leaders uniting against him as well
“As Christian pastors and leaders, we are deeply concerned by the recently announced moratorium on refugee resettlement,” the evangelicals’ advertisement says. “As Christians, we have a historic call expressed over two thousand years, to serve the suffering. We cannot abandon this call now.”
This in a full page advert in the press

personality disorder is not a mental illness! Its a developmental abnormality ie a wiring fault. Or you can call it a mental disorder but it is not an illness. You are born with it and you die with it and it cannot be treated or changed

Bollocks. People with BPD have good remission rates with treatment and it most certainly can be acquired, environmental causes are known to be a major factor and there are links with PTSD.

You’re a good case for EBM being forcibly burned into the brains of medical staff…

Personality Disorder ? It’s important to remember he was elected as he is more credible than Hilary

Perhaps we should all collectively pray for him and his disorder. We could all meet outside the US Enbassy and send the positive power of prayer to this poor man in his, and our, time of need

Personality Disorder ? It’s important to remember he was elected as he is more credible than Hilary

unfortunately that is a low bar as a test, and may in time prove to have put the wrong person there, having said that both candidates were probably the wrong person

It’s important to remember he was elected as he is more credible than Hilary

That is really nothing to shout about. I think Hannibal Lector would have been more credible than Hilary. Having said that, you need to remember that more people voted for Hilary than for Chump.

It’s important to remember he was elected as he is more credible than Hilary got in because of the odd US electoral system after losing the popular vote

It’s important to remember he was elected as he is more credible than Hilary got in because of the odd US electoral system after losing the popular vote and having had the support of the russians who it appears his staff colluded with

I do find it odd that americans dont seem bothered by any of these facts – these should be no party political points as its not very democratic and cause for concern

The trump and his supporters would be livid, rightly so, if the situation were reversed and he had got the most votes and lost due to russian hacking and politically motivated FBI leaking.

The trump and his supporters would be livid, rightly so, if the situation were reversed and he had got the most votes and lost due to russian hacking and politically motivated FBI leaking.

And what would have been the response?

Tom – you really need to learn a little more before you go on ranting about stuff.

People with personality disorders cannot be detained under the mental health act because they do not have a ” treatable mental illness”

People with personality disorders can be taught to mask the effects of them but they cannot be cured as it is a developmental abnormality like autism.

Edit – just realised I forgot the 2007 amendments to the Mental Health act that allows people with personality disorders to be detained under the act.

From an article in BJP
“The diagnosis and treatment of personality disorder continues to generate much controversy among psychiatrists. There is a strong view within the profession that people with personality disorder should not be considered treatable or, if at all treatable, that treatment should be offered only in specialised centres. Prevalence studies suggest that about 10–13% of the adult population in England and Wales have a personality disorder ”