Hi,

I am thinking of replacing an roadrat with a new frame and the Croix de Fer caught my eye. Apart from the change to bolt through axles and flatmount disks is there any noticeable difference if it is 853 rather than 725 Reynolds of the standard version?

Basically should I spend the extra on nicer tubing or forever regret not doing that.

The posher tubes do make it a bit lighter/springier. I’d try to get a look in person, the colour is much brighter than I was expecting and it put me off buying one.

Coming from an orange cotic or a luminous lime green arkose the brighter the colour the better 🙂

on a Croix, the difference between 725 and 853 will be sod all, get the one that is compatible with the bits you’ve got.

How are you going to tell the difference? you can’t do a side by side test and it will have your components on so after a few weeks of use you’ll have forgotten about it. spend the difference on beer

It would be worth checking (if possible) how much of the tubing is different.

For example, some frames will use only the “branded” top and downtube, with the same standard parts for others.

Mind you, I’ve just justified ordering a Genesis Volare 931 frame over the 853 equivalent on really dubious grounds – so I’d say go for it!

It will only be different if the tubes are thinner. My memory is that James said that when he designed did the Croix de Fer he did it in 40130 as he wanted a bit of stiffness to allow for using a rack etc. He didn’t do a 725 version as for the same stiffness you get the same weight and then the same ride. After he left the posher tubing showed up and was thought to be a bit of a marketing game.

OK I just looked the the 853 weighs 3.72kg the 725 3.6kg

That doesn’t sugest a big difference in tube thickness does it

OK I just looked the the 853 weighs 3.72kg the 725 3.6kg

This should be the other way round, the 853 is 3.6kg and the 725 3.72kg

Oops and thanks

But still, it’s not much difference

Isn’t the 853 one the only one with 12mm axles? The whole bikes and 725 frames are QR.

Got an old 931 stainless one and it is a fair bit more sprightly than the 4130 versions.

Either way you wont be disappointed, great bikes, gravel bikes since way before gravel was a ‘thing’.

Gonna be v little difference between the 2, and I wouldn’t trust listed weights.

Those who say there’s a difference can only really know if they’ve ridden the 2 frames with similar or identical builds, which I doubt.

If one is a decent amount nighter than your roadrat and the boys will swap over then it’s worth investigating IMO

For me, If I was looking at spending Croix 853 money I would be checking out a Soma Fog Cutter or Double Cross Disc with their Tange prestige tubes.

The bolt thru dropouts and axles will mask the tube weight differences.
Genesis tend to weigh their framesets as they are sold, rather than frame alone.

Last time I checked, there were only one or two tubes on each of the 725 and 853 frames which were actually made of the above materials, the rest were 4130 or 525.

I owned both a 725CDF and an 853 Day One Alfine 11 – they were both heavy, dumb, numb things. If you want a nice ride, sprightly handling and a zingy feel, buy Ti like a Planet X Tempest.

There’s always been a price premium for 853 but the difference between the standard Croix De Fer (already Reynolds 725) and the 853 version is a whooping £400! This seems a huge amount for a few ‘posher’ tubes. If money’s no object then go for it but if it is, then that’s a lot of spending power for upgraded kit.

Those weights must be with the fork, but is that a steel fork? Even so, that seems heavy. A ‘normal’ steel frame for that type of bike in my large size is about 2.1-2.3kg and the fork about 1.1kg so not sure where they get the extra
mass from.

Im eyeing up a cdf frame too , not sure if thru axle abilith is enough of a reason for me not to get the cheaper 725 , what is the deal with through axle does it make much difference or is it just wise future proofing to go that route ?

Would imagine QR wheel sets will be around for a few more years yet.

An I allowed to mention I’ll be selling a cdf frame in a couple of weeks once I got my new bike built up? Oh, I have anyway!

Thinner tubes dent easily.
My main issue with the Old CdF was the horrible fork, I assume this is long gone of they are now bolt-through.