I blame the parents 🙂

Your son was penalised for how he conducted himself not because of any inconvenient truth. Unless there are swathes of kids in Britain all being unfairly punished in this way I think your casting blame in the wrong place

CountZero

Yeah, enquiring minds want to know.

I gave up on Fb five or six years ago, partly because I had someone with me to think about, having got back in touch via Fb, but more so because it was just becoming toxic – trying to deal with family posting crap about chemtrails and that sort of stuff was exhausting, so I stopped looking at it. I still have it on my tablet, just because messenger is useful for a bunch of us to keep in touch, but that’s about it.

So I did the first bit… but the second bit and how it interacts is really more interesting.

So yeah.. don’t want to name anyone specifically but one of my FB ‘friends’.
I’ve seen a whole raft of fantasy chemtrails and other stuff from someone who seemed pretty sane and grounded.

as maccruiskeen points out with the FB algorithm… but it’s not just FB.
I can’t remember when I clicked on a Flat Earth takedown video or why.. (JUST DON’T or at least get a throw away account and a clean VM)… but this leads into a rabbit hole when YT then starts trying to give you content you dislike or want to argue over. I think it was a SciManDan ?? video originally but then the whole rabbit hole expands into echo chambers and anti-echo chambers.

It was amusing for a while … but it becomes more and more disturbing the more you see HOW people reject known and established fact and scientific theory.

It’s the HOW that’s really disturbing…. the deeper it gets the more it’s about “they lied to you about this so they lied to you about everything” until its a spiral.
for example its starts with “the earth is flat”… then a counter about why doesn’t it fall in on itself from gravity then “gravity isn’t real”…

As per the OP’s post .. maybe there is a dopamine response ?? but what you notice is a progression UP that pyramid.
(I don’t know what 1/2 of those conspiracies are – I’ve mostly just seen the science ones and I thought Pizzagate must be prince andrew but I guess not) … but the ones I recognise all seem to share a common theme of disproving established scientific fact and theory and each leads on to the next because now the “victim” has accepted that “the scientific establishment lied about one thing they half understood so they make the next leap and the next.

maccruiskeen

Your son was penalised for how he conducted himself not because of any inconvenient truth. Unless there are swathes of kids in Britain all being unfairly punished in this way I think your casting blame in the wrong place

So what do you think a kid should do when told to lie by a teacher? Just passively follow their instructions?

So what do you think a kid should do when told to lie by a teacher? Just passively follow their instructions?

Learn how to play the game, probably a good life lesson tbh

So what do you think a kid should do when told to lie by a teacher? 

If you actually want an answer to this it might be an idea to drop the lying rhetoric, that’s been the main issue with your contributions to this thread.

There’s a least one, possibly two, that I would move from ‘detached from reality’ to ‘we have questions’.

Feel free to share, you’re among friends

No thanks. I don’t want a 12 page argument ending with (redacted) squeaking that I’m a bigot then flouncing off.

Anyway to get back on track…

I was told a theory that the anal probes were as big as a pedal bin….

You would have an arsehole like a busted cat flap.

Thinking my tin foil hat might not offer enough protection.

Wanders off to build a tin foil bung.

In some respects I don’t see The Matrix as being too far fetched. However the Bible, now there’s a can of worms.

as maccruiskeen points out with the FB algorithm… but it’s not just FB.

I was using FB as an example because the algorithm sort of reveals itself in that range of interactions  – that spectrum of love-to-hate.

YouTube doesnt have the same kind of interactions – their  thumbs up / down feedback is really about whether you think the video was done well or done badly rather than if the subject matter makes you feel happy or angry. So its more a comment of the author than the content.

Much of the stuff FB is accused of in this respect Youtube is actually much worse at (or better at depending on how you see it)  but how it choses the content it promotes is maybe a bit more opaque

So what do you think a kid should do when told to lie by a teacher? Just passively follow their instructions?

I’m sure theres a middle way between passive acceptance and smart arse whataboutery. When we were feeling a bit mischievous is our physics class one of us would just interrupt the teacher mid flow and ask to explain again what a Quark is. And because he was lovely and really too clever for the job he’d stop whatever he was explaining and explain Quarks, pretty much for the rest of the lesson. We actually had no idea what quarks were, even after he’d told us –  I mean we really didnt know what the question meant, we were only about 12 or 13. So at that time we had one, 1 hour physics lesson a week. Physical principles had to be described to us in ways that fitted into that hour / term / year and in the context of what lessons had come before and what would come next. If questions are being asked in class they’re the about comprehension of the something that has just been taught – presumablysomething about temperature and pressure. If the question is multiple choice and theres an answer that aligns with what you’ve be taught thats the answer that shows you’ve paid attention and grasped whats been taught so for. Mouthing off about Bose Eisenstein Condensates just muddies the waters because those conditions are outside of the scope of whats just been taught. Thats not to say theres not an interesting conversation to be had if theres time and space for it. But in a school classroom, often, theres not. But in the scenario you describe where a description of a process has been given which doesn’t yet go into more rarified situations  – the answer ‘3’ is the right one on that day.  A smart kid should really learn how to work that out for themselves – the detention was for his conduct not his answer.

Its great if your son has a in interest in a subject that means he’s steps ahead of the information being taught but the teacher is teaching everyone in the room and has to make sure they’ve all reached the same point before setting off towards the next one. In this even ‘plama’ was a topic for another day an the class hadn’t yet taken those steps to get there.

Ahh my favourite, the moon landing being fake.

TBH, I’ve always thought the moon pictures were sometimes a little too good,and wouldn’t have been surprised if a few had been done on the 2001 set as perhaps some film didn’t survive the journey back or a cock up occurred and they needed to rustle up a few pics to save face.

I don’t think the landing was fake thou so I’m not sure what level of loon that puts me on 🙂

What actually can you measure via your a-hole other than temperature, that the anal probe would er probe ?

for example its starts with “the earth is flat”… then a counter about why doesn’t it fall in on itself from gravity then “gravity isn’t real”…

The trap people fall into is trying to address a post fact world with facts. If you subscribe to those kinds of fallacies – flat earth, fake moons and so on then you’ve already rejected facts and are playing with something else – the key to the appeal of  Flat Earth isnt the physics of it its idea that theres a conspiracy to hide the truth of a flat earth and fool the world into thinking its round – thats a better story than the truth  – its really rewarding for those people to be confronted by people who try to correct them with science because their starting point is the ‘facts ‘ and people who use them are wrong. Unfortunately you just throw fuel of the fire if you engage with them

In his younger years my dad and his pal used to play a game where they’d sit within earshot of a few folk in a pub or cafe and start a conversation between themselves about a one man band

“Did you see that one man band outside the shopping centre yesterday – he was really good’

” the what?”

“the one man band ”

“whats a one man band?”

They’d then have an animated conversation about one man bands – one describing the guy and how he plays all the instruments and the other say ‘never heard of such a thing’ ‘thats impossible’. They absolutely refused to believe there was any such thing as a one man band.

They reason they did this was because strangers couldn’t help but chime into the argument and try and convince the one-man-band denier (my dad and his pal took turns) of the reality of a one-man-band

The pay-off was getting some poor random standing in front of them miming being a one man band

But the key to it all was to quickly turn the position of ‘I’ve never heard of a one man band’ to ‘there is no such thing as a one man band’ and start telling people who know something is real that you know it isnt.

What actually can you measure via your a-hole other than temperature, that the anal probe would er probe ?

What you had for breakfast?

I wonder what SteveXC’s kid did oppose to lie that they told them to get detention.

Very easy question to answer. Ignorance is bliss.

Most conspiracy theories are rubbish. As has been said before just because 99% is rubbish it doesn’t mean 1% isn’t true.

JFK – Not much doubt that was the American mafia. Common theory now due to ‘The Irishman’ Old man Kennedy used the mob to make his son the president. Then thought he’d use the power of the presidency to crush the American mafia. What’s not mentioned but is very clear. Is Hoover without doubt worked for the American Mafia. My assumption is the reason it’s not mentioned is it’s something America could never recover from if it was proven to be true. The ‘mob’ killing a president is.

5g – All nonsense. The real threat of 5g is the speed and amount of data it can transfer compared to 4g.

Roe Vs Wade – Really about a serious decline in American birth rates. Can’t fight a war without soliders. Even better if they’re angry and dysfunctional from being raised by a mother who didn’t want them.

My favourite and this isn’t a theory it’s a fact. The western 1%. We’re all being slowly asset stripped and our rights as people are also slowly being taken away. The point is to take us back to previous times when the 1% were basically god’s. Then the other 99% couldn’t live any type of life without being obedient too them because they had total control of everything. Our 5th, 6th century, Egyptian times etc.

The reason for it is the war we’ve been in for decades with China. It doesn’t matter how much money you have if China is in control. That’s been proven time and time again. Take what’s going on in Hong Kong for example. China has also very clearly set out its goal for the future of the world with the Uyghur people. Take control of an area and breed everybody else out. Genocide.

Nobody with the power to do it is starting WW3 with nukes because it’s the end of us all. So you bring down America the way the American’s beat Russia. You bankrupt them. The only way we beat China is by stopping the West’s reliance on it. The only way you do that is by having a section of the West’s population so poor and desperate they’ll do anything. Dying of cancer from working in a chemical factory 20 years from now isn’t a problem if you and your family are starving today. Hence reverting the West back to previous times as mentioned. Why do you think they’re try to bring in a law where you can 10 years for protesting? It won’t happen now. But it will in 20, 30, 40 years time.

99.99% of the people reading this will think I’m nuts. But if there’s not a world changing event or if America doesn’t create a new world changing weapon it’s the West’s future. Without doubt. People fail to understand what money truly is. It’s the same as the written word was. It’s the same as religion. It’s a tool used by the few to control the many, then divide and rule.

I’ll now crawl back under my bridge with my vodka and coke 😉

It’s OK folks. No need for panic here. I’ve solved the ‘conspiracy’ puzzle. No matter what has been mentioned so far, it’s all the work of the lizard overlords who preside over the cycling industry, and just want @Kryton57 to buy another bike.*
*all or none of this may be true, or may not be true.

They’d then have an animated conversation about one man bands – one describing the guy and how he plays all the instruments and the other say ‘never heard of such a thing’ ‘thats impossible’. They absolutely refused to believe there was any such thing as a one man band.

See also: aeroplane on a conveyor belt.

Just when I was thinking we hadn’t had a thread derailed by one of steve’s anti-school rants for a while…

Nobody tell him what we teach kids about colour theory in art…

For a start, teachers are lazy buggers and detentions need to be staffed so we’re not going to give them if we don’t have to.

but what about all that delicious overtime pay you’re missing out on?

My favourite and this isn’t a theory it’s a fact. 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Roflcopter.gif

I’m sure theres a middle way between passive acceptance and smart arse whataboutery

On STW? This your first visit?

The only way we beat China is by stopping the West’s reliance on it. The only way you do that is by having a section of the West’s population so poor and desperate they’ll do anything.

or you build factories and what have you and make what you need between a group log countries who are willing to cooperate.

this fact/theory is a great example of this

Its much more comforting to think theres some sort of shadowy orgamisation making bad things happen because it makes it feel like the solutions to the worlds problems are comparatively simple. A reality where things happen because of huge random mixture bad planning, no planning, a lack of joined up vision, human failings, unintended consequences and that basically things often happen for no reason is much more difficult to digest. And its depressing as its makes the world too complicated to even describe let alone fix.

or people are making up the conspiracy to achieve their own aims.

Nobody tell him what we teach kids about colour theory in art…

Ah shit…. I did Fine Art at university…. Apparently… What do they teach kids about colour theory in art!?

Is it as worrying as teaching us how to appreciate Carl Andre’s Equivalent VIII 😀 ?

TBH, I’ve always thought the moon pictures were sometimes a little too good,and wouldn’t have been surprised if a few had been done on the 2001 set as perhaps some film didn’t survive the journey back or a cock up occurred and they needed to rustle up a few pics to save face.

Well, they used Hasselblad cameras shooting 6x6cm roll film, with the standard downward-looking viewscreen, the cameras were very simple to operate with a spacesuit, and the cameras were all left behind when the astronauts returned to Earth with the rolls of film. Many questions get asked about shadows – the moon is a fairly reflective object, so there’s lots of back-scatter from the surrounding light grey dust, in the same way that photographers use sheets of white, grey, or even black board to fill in shadows, or create shadows. And ‘there’s no stars! Must be fake’ No, they’re shooting in unfiltered raw sunlight, it’s very bright indeed! You can’t see stars for the same reason all but the brightest stars are invisible in a brightly lit town centre at night, or a nighttime floodlit football match.
There are new copies of the lunar landing photos available, the original negatives were digitally scanned at high resolution, and the results are stunning, it is actually possible to see some bright stars in the sky, where the sunlight is occluded by the module.

In one photo showing one of the astronauts, the Earth can be seen reflected in his helmet visor.
Anyone who knows anything about photography should understand why things show as they do, and refute the claims of the deniers – they just don’t want to hear it.

Here’s a couple of the Apollo 11 photos – if you look at the one titled ’Down The Ladder’, and zoom in, you have to zoom and hold on a tablet, and look closely at the sky just to the side and below Buzz Aldrin’s boot, you can clearly see the actual grain structure of the film, and a number of blue dots; those are stars, just visible due to the shadow of the lander.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/07/apollo-11-moon-landing-nasa-photos/

JFK – Not much doubt that was the American mafia

And there was me thinking it was a loony in the book depository.

5g – All nonsense. The real threat of 5g is the speed and amount of data it can transfer compared to 4g.

Ha Ha, very good. Its almost at unreliable as H+

What actually can you measure via your a-hole other than temperature, that the anal probe would er probe ?

No idea, but at some point between current human knowledge, and developing interstellar flight, maybe there is some interesting butt-stuff we cannot yet fathom.

a Ha, very good. Its almost at unreliable as H+

that’s what they want you to think. While your webpage is buffering, it’s downloading your every conscious thought…

Reality is complicated, change and the unknown are scary, easy to solve these problems with made up bullshit.

Ahh my favourite, the moon landing being fake.

Given the Russians could track such, and any attempt to fake would be spotted by them pretty quickly, we know its totally legit because every Russian comedian since 1969 doesn’t start his act with ‘Hey, remember when the Americans landed on the moon ?’

All interesting stuff. So why do aliens always kidnap dungaree wearing country yokels?

Caher
Full Member
All interesting stuff. So why do aliens always kidnap dungaree wearing country yokels?

Easier “access”?

Those POC dungarees sure were an expensive way of becoming an alien probe target…..

Ahh I may have it,

Perhaps the aliens are responsible for the micro-plastics and are checking their plan is working,although I’m not sure what difference it makes having your anus and genitals closer together, other than a rather er ‘funny’ party trick.

Although thinking more about it would be pretty great (as a person with dangly bits)to be able to raise the under carriage away, you could just pop it all up there whilst riding.

The few times I’ve interfaced with my top tube over the years weren’t much fun.

Ha Ha, very good. Its almost at unreliable as H+

???
I’ve got 5G at the moment in the middle of a forest 10 km from town. Banging data up and down, no problems at all.

Maybe you should move?

And FWIW, i got several detentions from science and maths lessons, not for questioning the models (which we had explained to us as to *why* we were using a simplified model) but for wasting the teachers time and being a gobby smart arse.

Once they say “simplified model” there’s no mileage in asking them, repeatedly, to explain what’s been simplified.
Especially in a class of 30+, most of whom don’t even care about the simplified model beyond what they need to pass the exam.

kilo

So what do you think a kid should do when told to lie by a teacher? Just passively follow their instructions?

Learn how to play the game, probably a good life lesson tbh

So basically we end up with a generation who view science as deliberately lying and making up results according to what is expected.. then we wonder why they “don’t trust scientists”???

It’s not like this doesn’t happen at all anyway when science has commercial sponsors but we are actually teaching them the truth is irrelevant

Spin

If you actually want an answer to this it might be an idea to drop the lying rhetoric, that’s been the main issue with your contributions to this thread.

So what do you actually call being told to put an answer you know is false in order to be marked correctly?

maccruiskeen

YouTube doesnt have the same kind of interactions – their thumbs up / down feedback is really about whether you think the video was done well or done badly rather than if the subject matter makes you feel happy or angry. So its more a comment of the author than the content.

YT relies heavily on sentiment analysis of comments though. Not to mention the wider google-sphere.
I’m sure I’ll soon be getting ads on YT for anal probes 😉

….

If the question is multiple choice and theres an answer that aligns with what you’ve be taught thats the answer that shows you’ve paid attention and grasped whats been taught so for.

My point is that question could be written so that the child doesn’t have to lie and illustrates the child has paid attention.

the answer ‘3’ is the right one on that day. A smart kid should really learn how to work that out for themselves – the detention was for his conduct not his answer.

This escalated and one of the players is an adult … the other a child
My child refused to write an answer he knew to be incorrect ..
My child preferred not having the mark for the question to lying…

However the teacher persisted instead of just letting it drop and kept telling him “there are only 3 states of matter just write it” trying to force him to write the answer on the test paper … after which or eventually my son finally responded with “so how do plasma cutters work” for which he was given detention presumably to teach him the lesson that you write what you are told not what you know to be true.

So basically we end up with a generation who view science as deliberately lying

Only if that’s the spin they hear from home.

Most kids either don’t care because they just want to pass, or enjoy the subject and look forward to learning the next level.

Your view just massively overcomplicated things and makes a mountain out of a molehill. As well as undermining the subject and school system in your kids mind, which may not be helpful as they progress through school and into the wider world afterwards.

So basically we end up with a generation who view science as deliberately lying and making up results according to what is expected.

If you understand how science works (or should work) you should understand that you can’t extrapolate from one shonky bit of personal experience to judgements about a whole generation.

Maybe your kid was treated badly and maybe he wasn’t but that’s doesn’t mean there’s deliberate nationwide bad practice as you’ve repeatedly suggested.