If you were looking for a larger family sized estate (boot for lab sized mutt + small amount of luggage), automatic, capable of towing 750kg unbraked and a budget of £5-10k what would you be looking at? I really like the current SMax but back to driving (especially at rush hour) almost daily post Covid the manual box and heavy car combo is grating on me badly.

Ideally it would be Euro4 petrol or Euro6 diesel but I am not currently in a ULEZ regularly it may come this way in time.

Not known for rotting/being mechanically problematic

Beyond that I’d contemplate anything from interesting but a bit costlier to run to its practical but a lot better value.

I’m avoiding Fords (despite loving every one I’ve owned) as I’d heard the powershift boxes weren’t so good in the long term.

practical/value focussed
Insignia
I40/Optima

Nicer
Superb
Passat

Nicer still but notably older/leggier/spendier
5-series touring
E-Class
V70

What am I missing? Thoughts on above?

Worst time to do it I know as the market is horrible.

In the usual STW – recommend what you have.

Volvo V70 no later than 2006, 140hp, 170hp non turbo 2.4 petrol or T5. Galvanised, massive boot, best seats in the business, solid tanklike.

Cons. avg 26mpg, not very good for STW driving gods and making progress.

Use your budget to buy a low mileage one owned by a decreased one owner.
I’d jump in ours now and cross continent’s in it even with 201k miles on it. Best car we’ve ever owned (had it 13years)

I have a Passat but it’s newer and would be way out of your budget, but it’s a very good car. I found when looking last time, admittedly during covid etc, that prices were nuts. Only had to look as my Insignia had eaten it’s own engine, then, after that was replaced under warranty, it broke down again with multiple issues including auto-box. I do know a couple of folks with siggys and they’ve had no issues and both tow caravan or trailer.

Accord or avensis?

Accord. Best car I ever owned. Nothing went wrong in 8 years of owning it and 100k+ miles. Only ever needed tyres and servicing bits. I miss that car.

Not quite the same requirements as when I was looking as I didn’t need to tow, but I read mixed stuff on the reliability of the dual clutch gearbox in some vag group cars. It put me off the superb I was considering a bit. I went with a Jag XF with the zf 8 speed gearbox instead. So if there’s an option on the Passat for a traditional torque converter auto box I’d suggest going with that over dsg.

So if there’s an option on the Passat for a traditional torque converter auto box I’d suggest going with that over dsg.

I had the 6speed DSG in a Passat for a while, which was faultless but the 7 speed variants of the same era were a bit questionable I believe.

I thought about stretching for an XF but my colleague has one of about target age, which he loves and don’t want to look like a copy cat 😂.

A bloke I used to know swore by his C5 estate for towing (that was a few years ago) reckoned it balanced of cost/fuel/torque his was the 2.0 HDI with an auto box. Do Citroen even still make a C5 estate with a diesel lump?

I own a car of this vintage – a 2005 Peugeot 407 SW – with the 2.0Hdi engine. It’s not fast but it just works. With one caveat – some parts are getting hard to find, for example it went in for a recurring intermittent gearbox issue and the specialist diagnosed a failing gearbox selector switch, great, just unbolt the old one and bolt in a new one, except they’re out of stock everywhere and no longer manufactured. I’ve had to take a punt on one from AliExpress.

Volvo V70 no later than 2006, 140hp, 170hp non turbo 2.4 petrol or T5. Galvanised, massive boot, best seats in the business, solid tanklike.

Not too much earlier, changeover to Euro 4 was 2004/5/6 depending on the engine type. Then Euro 5 kicked off in 08 i think.

Mazda 6 estate?

I read mixed stuff on the reliability of the dual clutch gearbox in some vag group cars

There isn’t a torque converter option, but don’t. DSGs are great. Sometimes they go wrong but so do torque converters and everything else. Early ones weren’t as reliable of course, but I think the reported issues are with some dry clutch ones fitted to some petrol versions.

The thing that is most valuable to me is having self levelling rear suspension. It’s fantastic, it allows you to tow and load the boot and have people in the back without the car pointing up to the sky.

You can find it on E class estates, and maybe BMW 5 series touring and maybe the Jaguar one. Some Volvos too I think. It was an option on some Passats I think.

Kia Optima, often overlooked but great cars. Under £10k will get you a 2019 model.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305237697287?advertising-location=at_cars&body-type=Estate&include-delivery-option=on&make=Kia&model=Optima&postcode=ca48lu&price-to=9500&radius=100&sort=relevance&fromsra

I’d go for a 5 series with the 8 speed ZF auto box. Don’t be put off by leggy, mine was at 155k miles when it was written off and I have no reason to think it wasn’t good for many more. 45mpg over the 60K miles I owned the car with 55+ easily achievable on a long run.

Kia Optima, often overlooked but great cars. Under £10k will get you a 2019 model.

That looks an interesting garage, being sold next to a Ferrari and Rolls Royce!

Nice looking car, but thats huge mileage in that short space of time

I’ve got a manual Kia Optima and it’s a decent value estate car. It’s not exactly powerful though and I tried an auto and that felt even slower. I’d certainly not fancy towing with one.

Nice looking car, but thats huge mileage in that short space of time

As long as it has been serviced on time, don’t worry about the high mileage. Probably spent most of its time on M-Ways, doing decent length runs, fully warmed up each trip. Far better than a low-mileage car that just trundles 5 miles to the shops each week

Don’t overlook the Mondeo, great value for money (well, can be sometimes).

DSGs are great.

Ohhhh, can I join in (sorry Molgrips, I know we have disagreed several times on this). The DSG I had was hateful (Audi A6 3.0l tdi) – it was the first auto I had ever owned and I found it so frustrating (the sluggishness on pick-up being the central issue). For the next car I had I went back to manual but my wife really wanted an auto (shoulder issues cause her problems changing gear sometimes) and we ended up with a Mercedes GLC which is lovely to drive and I would say I am now converted to auto (until I finally get to get a Lotus Elise). We now also have an old Quasqui (2.0tdi so it has the conventional auto, not the CVT) which I definitely prefer to drive over the Audi I had.

One of these:

W212, with the Om642 3 litre V6 diesel.

Air/Self Levelling on the rear – massive towing and load carrying capability. Enormous boot, biggest in class (I’m seem to recall A6, 5 series, V70 or Superb all smaller)
Excellent 7 speed, torque converter auto. (You must be insane to think a DSG is a better option for this usage!)
Torquey, smooth 6 cylinder.
Very solid build – no standout reliability concerns, superb body quality (anything with rust is crash repaired).
Massively durable chassis and running gear – noticeable more so than cars from the class below.
Painless to run and service. There are lots of good cars listed above but most cannot hold a candle to the overall quality of the E-Class. 2.0 4 pot diesels will never be as pleasant!
Loads on auto trader, wouldnt hesitate to run one to 150k+ miles at all.

Just traded mine in for a smaller/newer C350 CDI which is a bit sharper to drive but the E-Class, for your usage requirement, is the ultimate. Best motorway car I’ve ever had or been in, second only to S Class. I do miss it.

Oh and the Kia Optima – you do realise thats Keighley Motorhub… right?!

@Daffy

Mazda 6 estate?

Great car with a Skyactiv Petrol engine and manual box. Auto and the guaranteed-to-explode 2.2 Diesel? No chance.

Coils on the rear too.

Honestly – for towing and loading up to the hilt, you want E-Class, A6, or 5 series with air.

https://www.practicalcaravan.com/advice/mercedes-benz-e-class-estate

The DSG I had was hateful

That was a while ago though! From my experience of many taxis they have evolved quite a bit, not least because the engines have too.

You must be insane to think a DSG is a better option for this usage!

I’ve had both a DSG (albeit early 2006 one) and that same box you have. The DSG was much better at shifting, but the Mercedes 7G+ is more intelligently programmed. But as said, DSGs are much better now than they were in 2006.

Regarding the Merc V6, I can imagine they would be awesome to tow with but they are pretty uneconomical. The 250 CDI that I have is 2.2l 4 cylinder twin turbo, it’s amazingly torquey with 500Nm and has 204bhp but can still do mid-high 50s on the motorway. It’s less economical with a caravan on than the Passat was though.

However it does rather sound like the OP is more interested in a smaller trailer, so that kind of muscle probably isn’t required.

Never, never, never buy from Motorhub!

Very solid build – no standout reliability concerns, superb body quality

Except for the rear subframes…

Except for the rear subframes…

That car in the pic possibly pre-dates that issue?

The DSG I had was hateful (Audi A6 3.0l tdi) – it was the first auto I had ever owned and I found it so frustrating (the sluggishness on pick-up being the central issue).

Definitely a DSG? I know up until fairly recently the 3 litres were a proper auto, and the sluggishness sounds familiar. A mate ended up getting his gearbox remapped to help it

Definitely a DSG?

Yes – I just checked the original order! 3.0 TDI Quattro Black Edition 5dr S Tronic

That was a while ago though! From my experience of many taxis they have evolved quite a bit, not least because the engines have too.

Yeah I know (mine was a 2013 model) and I do recall saying in further conversations that I had driven newer DSGs and the lag had not been anything like as apparent – it still put me off them though!

If you want a generally hassle free experience then I’d suggest Toyota Avenses / RAV4 or Honda HRV or if large enough then Civic.

Whatever you get don’t believe the modern toss about gearboxes being sealed for life & not needing servicing/fluid changes. Once you settle on a few options have a look into servicing for the gearboxes especially if towing, I’d also to use that to filter out potential purchases way over the servicing recommendations if they don’t have evidence of service work being carried out.

For example the ZF 8HP box found in many BMW’s (& Audi & Jag among others) ZF recommended 70-80K as the service interval, BMW said sealed for life.

If you go for a VAG car check for a factory fitted tow bar. Think they add an extra oil cooler or similar.

I think my DSG had an oil cooler despite not having a factory towbar.

If you go for a VAG car check for a factory fitted tow bar. Think they add an extra oil cooler or similar.

Thanks I think you may be right on the smaller models (up to Octavia sized).

Reason I say that is a few years back I was looking at leasing / PCP on a new Passat or Golf or Octavia or Superb. The Octavia “required” tow bar pre-prep whereas the Passat and Superb didn’t. I had a 62 plate Passat TDI DSG that towed nicely and was factory fit for towing I think.

What I’m towing is mostly a double stacking dinghy trailer that’s rated at 750kg and probably normally runs at around 450-500kg in practice depending on which boats are on it and what tools and spares I’ve piled into the storage box bit.

Thanks to @molgrips for the comments on the Merc engine. 200bhp is more than enough for me. Not sure my laid back driving style would derive much benefit from another 2 pots and another litre of displacement.

The E-Class is looking quite attractive alongside the V70 at the moment.

Not sure my laid back driving style would derive much benefit from another 2 pots and another litre of displacement.

It does though. >4 cyl engines generally are quiet and super smooth. and absolutely lovely to drive. At some point (2014 in my car) Merc switch to a nine speed gearbox with the V6 diesels that barely ticks over at motorway speeds. But you pay for it at the pump.

I’m a fan of buying nicer older cars. Newer cheap cars become old cheap cars quite quickly, but older nice cars are still fundamentally nicer. My neighbour has a 3.0l diesel 5 series that is the same age as my Passat. It was a much nicer car, but he paid the same for it; just two years after I bought the Passat. That was 10 years ago, he still has it, it’s still much nicer than the Passat was 🙂

@doomanic

Except for the rear subframes…

That made some financially worrying reading.

Are Mercedes still picking the cost of these up vaguely reliably or has the goodwill eroded on this?

W212 seems to be the first generation of affected E Class and that was my fave so far.

AFAIK mercedes are still replacing the subframes for free.
Would a CLS work for you?
Similar to the E class, but better looking imo

Are Mercedes still picking the cost of these up vaguely reliably or has the goodwill eroded on this?

Up to 20 years I think.

CLS are lovely cars to drive but possibly a firmer ride.

CLS are lovely cars to drive but possibly a firmer ride.

My colleague had one of those before his XF, not the shooting brake. Always thought it was a lovely car and was my first thought ahead of the E but the shooting brake roofline/rear hatch shape isn’t as dog or rolled sail friendly (boring needs first! 😂).

Have you looked at the V90 or XF estates?
Out of my budget so i personally don’t know much about them, except they look very smart cars, although you might blow your £10k budget to get euros 6 compliance