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id need another slow cooker as the one I have is fulfilled with molten speed wax.
I mentioned this on another thread, get one of the IKEA portable induction hobs. Then you just need a cheap metal pan for each. And you get an induction hob to use for camping/cooking out doors too.
the fenwicks chain cleaning sponge £1.50 combined with the chain cleaner on merlin is great, will make your chain sparkle..
what are people using to clean and degrease the chain before lubing up?
Doesn't tend to need it using the products I've suggested.
As above, I just wipe the chain after application, and I use dry lube when it's dry.
My MTB gets a hosing off after each ride and then muc-off C3 dry applied to the chain and it always stays lovely and clean.
You've seen the test results for C3 yeah...
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/
If you have any belief in his testing an expensive bottle of lube used on a clean chain and kept on top of saves you an awful lot of money in the long term and is faster.
I think I must have really low standards as I use the Muc-Off wet lube and it seems fine to me. Whatever I use, the chain needs cleaning after a while. I do use it very sparingly though.
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/
seem to really rate the Silca SS (Supersecret) and the slightly wetter Silca Synergetic - they are pricey but appear to last for ages....
any real world uk conditions views ?
Supersecret is wax and I gave up rapidly hotwaxing then topping up on the MTB due to conditions going from lovely to sloppy at a moments notice. Wax the road bike.
Synergetic is oil based and it's so much nicer than anything I've used before. Feels smoother, less gunk build up. Bottle so far has lasted 12months and probably used a quarter of it. The nozzle on mine is very fine so easy not to pour loads on which helps. Not the most prolific riding year mind but out in all conditions. This is based on using on a cleaned drivetrain. Would buy again and in theory that money is more than saved on less wear.
^^^ good to know, thanks, may give them a go when current Smoove runs out. I was using Wolftooth WT-1 as posted earlier on mtb and gravel bikes but have today degreased and cleaned drivetrains ready for something less messy. Have Smoove on road bikes and find it decent. Will maybe take a punt on Synergetic for mtb & gravel in that case
You’ve seen the test results for C3 yeah…
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/If you have any belief in his testing an expensive bottle of lube used on a clean chain and kept on top of saves you an awful lot of money in the long term and is faster.
I have belief in his testing, and will not be replacing the C3 after the bottle has run out - still, I don't think it is horrendous for my particular use-case for the MTB which is mostly 45 minute races without even bothering for a warmup lap 🙂
What I said I think still stands though, C3 dry might not be a good chain lube - but at least it is chain lube unlike WD40/GT85.
Stihl synthetic sawchain oil.
I’ve given up with various lubes. Off the back of the MX/Enduro bike approach I spray the chain with WD40/GT85 and rub with a rag.
Completely different style of chain though. Motorcycle O/X ring chains have the lubricant sealed inside by the O/X ring seals, hence don’t need lube on the outside.
Wolf Tooth WT-1 is terrible, biggest black mess I’ve ever seen the first couple of rides on a new chain with factory grease on. Still wipes off black on a cloth after a few hundred km.
I have had same experience, which is disappointing given the great reviews it gets. Mine was applied to a clean and dry, degreased chain.
Zero Friction Cycling have torn Wolf Tooth a new arsehole about this lube:
Just removed this disgusting stuff from my drivetrain. Half disassembled it including having the cassette in pieces.
Couldn't make it up, company that makes money selling consumable drivetrain parts launches new chain lube which accelerates wear.
If for some reason you want my over 3/4 full 60ml bottle, it's yours for the postage cost.
Now trying Effetto Mariposa Flowerpower drip-on wax
Has anyone tried the Tru-Tension Tungsten All Weather Lube? After a couple of years of Putolene I'm fed up with the faff and looking for something simpler (and cleaner...)
Can't believe no one has said
Smoooooooooooooove
I keep going back to rock n roll extreme for a clean chain experience. It doesn't last long, definitely need to reapply after most rides, but it runs very clean.
Currently experimenting with peatys all weather on my commuter. It's a black mess by comparison. It does last well and it's lubricating qualities are anecdotally good.
Tried that wolftooth stuff, fabulous lubrication, another black mess.
I flirted with squirt. That just went all claggy as soon as the weather got cool and wasn't really all that clean either. Yes, I made sure I want over applying and letting it cure.
I'm going back to RnR once the peatys had been used. I'll have clean drive chains again. My jockey wheels won't be a sticky mess full of crap. It's easy to apply, which is lucky coz it needs doing more often.
After a couple of years of Putolene I’m fed up with the faff and looking for something simpler (and cleaner…)
I did this, as soon as I stripped the Putoline off I realised it was pretty much all that was holding the drivetrain together 😂 It barely ran despite a fresh application of Viking Juice.
I was back on Putoline within about 2 rides 🙄
I wanted to try chain waxing, and with my usual mission creep, ended up ordering a wax warmer and ulrasonic cleaner as well as wax.
I ordered some wax from "optimize" who do the solid hot melt wax as well as liquid waxes. The plan is to give the chain a wipe down and apply some liquid wax after wet rides in the hope that extends the time for requiring a hot wax application.
iaincFull Member<br />
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/
seem to really rate the Silca SS (Supersecret) and the slightly wetter Silca Synergetic – they are pricey but appear to last for ages….any real world uk conditions views ?<br />Posted 1 month ago<br />REPLY | REPORT <br /> <br /> <br />tomlevellFull Member<br />Supersecret is wax and I gave up rapidly hotwaxing then topping up on the MTB due to conditions going from lovely to sloppy at a moments notice. Wax the road bike.
Synergetic is oil based and it’s so much nicer than anything I’ve used before. Feels smoother, less gunk build up. Bottle so far has lasted 12months and probably used a quarter of it. The nozzle on mine is very fine so easy not to pour loads on which helps. Not the most prolific riding year mind but out in all conditions. This is based on using on a cleaned drivetrain. Would buy again and in theory that money is more than saved on less wear.<br /><br />
I posted a month back on this thread, and swopped to synergetic as a ‘wet lube’ and SuperSecret for road as a dry lube.
impressed with both so far and won’t be changing.
@iainc (or anyone more knowledgeable than I am), why a wet lube for off-road rather than SuperSecret or one of the other drip-ons like FlowerPower or Ceramic UFO?
I'm on Molten Speed Wax currently on my road bike. Throughout the summer it has been awesome. I experimented with GLF wax (smells lovely!) also but that didn't seem to last anywhere near as long between waxes (no long term testing though but it needed doing every couple of rides so I swapped mack to the MSW). For the winter I plan to try topping up the MSW with Tungsten All Weather and/or Silca Super Secret depending on which turns out to be better (I bought a bottle of each 🙄🤷♂️). I really would prefer not having to go back to Putoline on my shiny road bike as the MSW is so so clean. Drivetrain looks like new still and I've done 6000 KM on it.
Currently using old suspension oil mixed with a bit of blue marine grease. It's significantly less shit than Muc-Off (although so is actual shit).
get one of the IKEA portable induction hobs. Then you just need a cheap metal pan for each
I like the idea but how do you keep the wax at the correct temperature?
Which leads me to ask ...
what capacity of slow cooker do you need for a chain?
I’m still persisting with Squirt. The longer I’ve used it, the better it seems to last on the MTBs, about to swap the commuter/gravel bike over too.
On both MTBs there is noticeably less build up on the drivetrain. Mostly they’re just a bit dusty when they dry out.
Revolubes, clean, lasts ages (bloody ought to given the price.
Works for me also in winter slop, thoughtl they also have some form of chain grease for winter - not tried that one
bikesandbootsFull Member<br />@iainc (or anyone more knowledgeable than I am), why a wet lube for off-road rather than SuperSecret or one of the other drip-ons like FlowerPower or Ceramic UFO?<br /><br />
I find it lasts longer in typical west of Scotland manky conditions than SuperSecret or other dry lubes.
ZFC's extensive body of work can be distilled down to 2 points.
1. Dry wax lubes are best, irrespective on conditions. Dry wax formulations are improving all the time.
2. 'Resetting' your lube to its fresh state, irrespective of wet or dry, is the key factor in its longevity. Waxes still have the longest reset intervals.
I find it lasts longer in typical west of Scotland manky conditions than SuperSecret or other dry lubes.
After a winter ride, I rinse down the drivetrain while spinning the pedals until the water coming off is no longer brown, then relube. I don't trust that any lube would survive the rinsing, so lasting one ride is enough for me!
@Scienceofficer what do you mean by “resetting”?
Remove contaminants/clean and relube. This does not include reapplying lube over dirty lube.
With wax this is somewhat easier because when heated it goes runny and all the wear particles and trail debris sink to the bottom of the heating vessel.
Wet lubes mostly need degreasing.
After a winter ride, I rinse down the drivetrain while spinning the pedals until the water coming off is no longer brown, then relube. I don’t trust that any lube would survive the rinsing, so lasting one ride is enough for me
Pretty much this is me with Peatys all weather premium.
I used to use pro gold before changing to Squirt, but I might change back over winter, it doesn't seem to gunk up as much as other wet lubes and you can clean the chain with it too, I applied it more regularly and wiped the excess off which did seem to bring the chain up cleaner, it's thin so gets deep into the links.
bikesandbootsFull Member
@iainc (or anyone more knowledgeable than I am), why a wet lube for off-road rather than SuperSecret or one of the other drip-ons like FlowerPower or Ceramic UFO?
Not wet lube but oil based - Synergetic for example and no doubt there are other good ones out there I just haven't used them.
Drip ons like those above are wax based (I;ve no idea what Flowerpower is mind)
For me and my use I prefer the oil based offroad as it last better in intermediate conditions (full on muck means it gets washed off anyway afterwards). Probably the main reason is I invariably forget to reapply soon enough before the next ride and the wax based ones need to dry before use...
1. Dry wax lubes are best, irrespective on conditions
Doesn't his testing suggest that immersive waxing is best, or have I misunderstood, and that's what you call dry wax? And doesn't ZFC also say that after wet weather riding you should reset (i.e. remove containments and re-lube) every time? And if your choice is immersive wax, 1. How many on here are doing that, and 2. doesn't that remove a couple of the key benefits of immersive wax lubes - you don't need to do it that often, and because you don't need to do it that often, the cost is lower.
Doesn’t his testing suggest that immersive waxing is best, or have I misunderstood, and that’s what you call dry wax?
Good shout. My terminology could be better. I do mean immersive waxing. I used 'dry' to differentiate this from the drip on wax lubes.
Absolute optimum is to reset after every ride but after what ride length? ZFC has a table showing what lasts the longest in poor conditions as well as others. I think one of the immersive waxes is supposed to last about 200km between reset intervals which is the current absolute best tested at present.
Of course,ZFC has a huge aussie roadie bias. It seems pretty clear to me that they wont have much comprehension on UK off road winter riding conditions, so I should think the reset interval will drop significantly...
It's why I stayed with wet lube - easier to manage on a high frequency basis. I'm still curious about the immersive waxing approach - though I used Putoline BITD and found the hassle/return equation firmly in the 'nope!' category, things have moved on with hot melt waxes.
Of course,ZFC has a huge aussie roadie bias.
Ah right, now his comments make more sense! The way he talks about wet weather off road riding makes me think that if he came and saw what most of the MTB community here are doing here most weekends in the winter, he'd pass out.
though I used Putoline BITD and found the hassle/return equation firmly in the ‘nope!’ category, things have moved on with hot melt waxes.
Was my experience also, but if you're prepared to either un multiple chains or take the chain off after every ride, I guess the gains are there to be had. What price convenience I guess.
Wolf Tooth WT-1 is terrible, biggest black mess I’ve ever seen the first couple of rides on a new chain with factory grease on.
Adding oil to grease without knowing how each is formulated is *very* likely to lead to black gloopy or sticky mess...
I like the idea but how do you keep the wax at the correct temperature?
Thermometer? Just a basic cooking one.
Same way you check the temp of the wax in a slow cooker.
What's the best method for "resetting" a chain? I have a small ultrasonic bath if that makes a difference. It's a relatively new chain that has not been hot waxed, but has been used in pretty minging conditions. I'd like eco friendly if possible. Gary/Geex/GW suggested Cif kitchen mousse which does a good job of cleaning the outside.
With the Putolene I used to just rinse off as much of the crud as possible and then put the chain in the cold fryer and switch it on. By the time I've finished cleaning the rest of the bike the chain has been immersed in hot wax for some time so I can remove it and hang it up to dry.
I got over 5000km out of an SLX chain on my Rail but the GX chain on my KSL has lasted less than 2000 with the same treatment.
if he came and saw what most of the MTB community here are doing here most weekends in the winter, he’d pass out.
Quite so.
I remember years ago reading a comment from a Manitou product manager in one of the paper mags that went something like 'If you can design it to work under water at the beach, then it will be ok for UK use'
What’s the best method for “resetting” a chain?
ZFC has plenty on what they regard as being thorough cleaning for first wax application.
None if it is 'Eco friendly', whatever that means anyway.
@Chipps of this parish, often tells of the PTSD he's given several Californian based designers after a mid winter Calderdale ride. Fun Times.
Chipps did a winter ride with us on Mendips a good few years ago now, by local standards it was an absolute mud fest. There was comment that it was a bit of a shocker. I remember looking across the carpark and not being able to identify people because all of us were covered head to foot in brown.
It’s why I stayed with wet lube – easier to manage on a high frequency basis
agreed, which is why i suggested Synergetic as being the 'wet lube' that ZFC rate as best for their perception of poor conditions, somewhere akin to what we all ride in.
Don't make me get out my clean Putoline chain pictures again.
It's not faff. Remove, soak, refit, a few times a year. You don't need to clean it, it stays clean - that's the whole point. The wax repels water and mud because it stays on the whole ride and for many rides.
It’s not faff. Remove, soak, refit, a few times a year.
Yeah. I appreciate that it works like that for you, but it didn't for me.
I was re-lubing every other ride or so in the winter or I had a stiff and rusted chain when wet or rattly links in the summer.
Throw in that sticky black crap and hardly improved chain wear rates, plus it made the chain stiffer and less reluctant to shift. It just wasn't worth it for me.
After this I spent a long time cycling chains through a clean/relube system in rotation, coming off the bike. I found this cleaner, better shifting and notably increased chain life by c. 50%. Systemised it wasn't as much of a pain as putoline.
Now I just use Peatys (ex Wickens and Soderstrom) and purge the chain with a hydro shot and reapply and get an even cleaner chain with comparable wear rates to my prior system and get to leave the chain on the bike. This is way less hassle.
I'm not saying its optimum for everyone, but it suits my regime and meets acceptable standards of cleanliness and drivetrain life.
a few times a year
That's not my experience in FoD slop. It certainly lasts longer than Muc Off but even 2 consecutive days was asking too much. I was redoing it every ride to keep it shifting sweetly and stave off rust.
Mind you, I'm not convinced any lube will survive clag like this...
