The Beatles, never understood their success

Ozzy Osbourne described the effect of the Beatles best IMO, he said something like “it was all black and white before the Beatles then it was in Colour”

The problem with music is it’s hard looking back to understand what a time and place can have on someone’s connection to music and an artist.

Imagine being from Liverpool as a teenager when the Beatles came out? It must have been incredible.

Some artists are huge despite not being great singers, musicians or dancers. It’s often inexplicable.

People like stuff other people don’t. Heart FM playlists are composed entirely by stuff I’m convinced is created by AI, same goes for Radio One, it’s incomprehensible to me that people can actually listen to that stuff for hours a day.

But if you look at the charts from the 50’s and early 60’s the charts were also full of derivative songs, and loads of covers.

A lack of comprehension regarding the charts of the 50’s and 60’s, I feel; songs were written as an industry, for the record companies to offer to acts to perform, if an act or artist turned a song down, it would be offered to someone else. If a song became popular, then other artists would take the song and record it themselves, which is why a song could be in the charts by three different artists at the same time, often written by Goffin and King, (that’s Carol King), Holland, Dozier, Holland and others. The Brill Building was a song writing factory. Dusty Springfield had hits with songs by Continental writers, for example; she never wrote her own songs, neither did Tom Jones, as another example.
Most artists just didn’t write their own music and lyrics – Buddy Holly did, the Beatles didn’t to start with, neither did the Stones, it just wasn’t how the industry worked.
It took the Beatles to break that formula, followed by the Stones, then others realised they could do it too.

Didn’t stop the recording industry shafting most artists through dreadful contracts, especially Black artists. Many artists who had lots of big selling records earned bugger-all, because of corrupt management.

leonard cohen

Is it only me that has to say this name in the Monty Python “Lemon Curry?” voice…?

Yeah. Thought so.

He got fed up and buggered off.

Pretty sure he’s still around

I’m definitely another who thinks Oasis are a bit shit. I’ve genuinely heard pub bands that were much better. A whiny cockbag of a frontman with a terrible voice, music aping every band from the 60’s and 70’s skirting way past being influenced by and wandering in to Jive Bunny territory. Terrible lyrics too. So many better bands from that period.

The one that stands out to me amongst all others is Coldplay. It’s bland, middle of the road shite – Chris Martin isn’t a great vocalist and the song writing is painful at times. Personally, I don’t get them at all.

Other stuff I can put down to like/don’t like, but Coldplay just make my teeth itch. Oh and Robbie Williams

Oasis > Blur BTW IMO. Liam and John Squire’s new stuff is bloody awful though, like a child wrote it – guess that’ll be Liam then.

Taylor Swift, I don’t have to like her to understand why she’s so popular – although her initial rise to fame was probably/definitely assisted by having loaded parents

As an aside, rather than just being a sheep and lambasting Beyonce’s Country Carter album, I decided to listen to it in full on a drive home the other day.

I was actually quite surprised tbh

It’s way worse than I was expecting

I sometimes wonder at folks who profess not to like the sorts of music that thousands, sometimes millions of others really really like and whether they ever think to themselves “I wonder if its me that has the shit taste in music?”

Def Leppard

Just  .. because, ok? : )

But yeah.. hard to say why I like low-brow poodle rock. Motley Crue can be the same kind of awesome turned up a level. It has energy and I’m not a music snob. Sometimes I just react to music like Beavis and Butthead.

Happy Mondays

Deserved all the success and excess their creativity brought them imo, they were something new and came out of the beginnings of a scene that became huge. Sean Ryder’s lazy lyrical genius… brilliant.

Coldplay’s first album was good. The rest was bland schmaltz and sounded like it was driven by money.

I don’t understand all these bands and singers now that all seem to hit the same long mid-high note in emotional songs that are weirdly devoid of emotion (to me), but hey.. if you like it, great. Hurts my ears but some people hate heavy metal for the same reason, thankfully I’m not one of them.

Ooh! The Sex Pistols. Shite manufactured boy band. Punk my arse.

Jones and Cook had been playing together since 1972. Jones and Cook are the Sex Pistols sound. Pretty Vacant has the elements that defined the punk rock sound: thundering drums, slide in power chords, picked chords and simple but effective fills and solos. As a guitarist I love playing it. They are very good musicians, Matlock was pretty good too. The last to join the band was Rotten and he added the scowl that made punk complete. I did it at a now-closed pretentious blues rock venue, the crowd loved it, the venue owner less so.

Oassis? Don’t forget Noel provided the vocals of some of the classics such as Don’t look back in Anger. And he can strum a guitar beautifully. Whenever there was a guitar around I picked it up to entertain the highly international collection of pilgrims on the way to Compostelle, Oassis and the Beatles were guaranteed to get people of every generation singing along instantly, anything else they had to find the lyrics on their phones.

Oasis

A jukebox without any Oasis albums is a sign of a rubbish pub.

Oasis are a good example. I liked them when they started as they seemed fresh but time showed it was rehashed Beatles, 70s rock etc.

The quality of their output went downhill quickly ironically as they got huge and did Knebworth as they were declining 

Their later work and solo stuff never matched Definitely Maybe. It could simply be timing that made the 1st album appear different. Liam is a poor singer, Noel has a weak voice but they seemed to work for a year or two.

Their “swagger” was really down to being 5 rough lads from Burnage. Any 5 youngish lads from there would have a similar attitude. Mancs are vocal, cynical, gobby, arsey, angry at times. (That’s my excuse)

FWIW, good singers, excellent musicians are easy to appreciate even if you don’t like the genre or their work.

The Beatles, never understood their success

Surprised this took so long! 🙂

Interesting comment earlier about Frank Turner, who is insanely talented and amazing live, but certainly not successful in terms of mainstream success, I would have put him in the earlier thread about bands that never quite made it.
Lucky there’s no right or wrong where tase is concerned!

Not really. Very basic playing. Relies heavily on his looper. He’s a very basic player

Sheeran doesn’t even claim to be a great guitarist:

Ed Sheeran popped in on the Howard Stern show on Sirius XM recently and discussed his guitar playing influences and, in particular, his love of Eric Clapton’s Layla.

Talking about the influence of the blues guitar hero, Stern asks Sheeran if he can shred.

“That’s the one thing that I can’t do,” says Sheeran. “I sort of made a choice when I was younger, like, ‘If I wanna be John Mayer or Eric Clapton, I learn all this sh** and if I wanna be Damien Rice, I learn four chords.”

and from his recent court case:

Ed Sheeran questioned his own music skills during a Marvin Gaye plagiarism trial.

Sheeran briefly performed lines from the song, explaining his songwriting technique to the court, saying: “When I write vocal melodies, it’s like phonetics.”
Sheeran claimed he often writes up to 10 songs in one day. He co-wrote “Thinking Out Loud” with Amy Wadge.

However, according to AP, Sheeran, who has won dozens of awards and headlined Glastonbury, apologised after accidentally hitting the mic with his hand, and told those present: “I’m not the world’s most talented guitar player.”

However he is someone who knows what he’s good at (and he’s very good at it), is commercially very astute, is a seemly very nice person and has an incredible network of other very talented and influential people.  Some of his songs are great, others less so, but I don’t think he’s looking for critical acclaim.  Took my kids to see his concert a few years ago at Wembley, it was fantastic.

Oasis are great in spite of Liam, not because of him.  The power in their biggest tracks ia/are from the music, not the vocals.  Noel has some real skill, is seemingly quite intelligent and has a dry wit…when he’s not trying to be a dick.

Noel’s Teotihuacan from the X-files album is still phenomenal:

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The Beatles, never understood their success

When people say things like this, I wonder if they’re just saying it for effect. I mean even if you dislike their music, its like saying “ice cream, why do so many people like it?”

The Killers

Not because of their music which peaked in Hot Fuss and immediately waned. But because there are now kids graduating university who were born after Mr Brightside, and that just makes me feel unacceptably old.  And for that I can’t forgive them.

Coldplay.

Well the Beatles had their moments, but it’s not difficult to make the case for them being overrated.

The Stones on the other hand, I’ve come to appreciate a lot more.

Some artists are huge despite not being great singers, musicians or dancers.

Absolutely. Almost as if those aren’t the only things that can make a great artist.

Someone already mentioned both New Order and Happy Mondays… if you can write songs that good, and deliver them in a way that so many people can hook into… then success is warranted.

Interesting question, define “unwarranted“.

Most of the bands mentioned in this thread have genuine talent, whether you like them or not. Never really got Simple Minds or Def Leppard but the members of those bands are far better musicians than I’ll ever be.

Oasis were a bit of a one trick pony but they have a big enough fan base to warrant their status, ditto the perennial  music snobs’ favourite targets Coldplay. Not sure how you can say someone’s success is unwarranted when they have built and more importantly maintained a loyal fan base.

Ash. not great songs and the lead singer can’t actually sing.

This thread has prompted me to re-listen to the remastered Oasis stuff.  It really is quite good.

Ah, middle aged men complaining about ‘music these days’. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose…

I’ve never understood why Pink Floyd are so massive. I can appreciate the quality of their musicianship but their not known for their banging choons are they?

Pink Floyd are pretty much the only band who’s music I have a visceral dislike for. I really, really, really hate it. But that’s music innit, There’s stuff you like, stuff you don’t like, and stuff you can take or leave. Criticising other people’s taste in music is both pointless and dull.

I’ve never understood why Pink Floyd are so massive. I can appreciate the quality of their musicianship but their not known for their banging choons are they?

I’m not really sure either, but it might be that (post-Sid) they made psychedelic music for people who didn’t want anything too challenging?

I find them dull AF personally.

***ditto the perennial music snobs’ favourite targets Coldplay. Not sure how you can say someone’s success is unwarranted when they have built and more importantly maintained a loyal fan base.***

Whilst you are clearly correct in stating this fact, I really, really cannot understand their continued success (I loved Yellow but everything else since has left me cold). As far as I see it, Coldplay make music for people that don’t really love music.

Coldplay’s first album was good. The rest was bland schmaltz and sounded like it was driven by money.

I agree. They were students when they started out and got big straight after graduating IIRC. I’ve never listened to  anything after their second album, but I find it odd how much hate they attract. I knew the drummer (hockey player in the Union drinking every Wednesday night) and his brother (worked with him) and they’re lovely blokes. Never met Chris but people I knew that did said he is a great person.

I never liked U2 or REM, but I guess I get why people do.

I’m not the biggest fan of Coldplay but I did see them live just before Shiver was released and Mark and Lard had played them a bit on 6 Music. In a room of 30 or so people they were really good live and his voice was amazing. There are plenty of terrible and very famous bands and I’m not sure it’s fair to include Coldplay in that. Their first album in particular is a decent piece of work in my opinion.

Just to drive the point home:

Coldplay.

Kings of Leon. Thought I like them, then went to see them live. OMFG. Get in the sea!

***Kings of Leon. Thought I like them, then went to see them live. OMFG. Get in the sea!***

I was the same with The Killers – saw them live and it put me right off them.

 As far as I see it, Coldplay make music for people that don’t really love music.

Respectfully, get over yourself.

***Respectfully, get over yourself.***

Why? It is my opinion and I am perfectly entitled to have it.

“Unwarranted” is interesting.

I mean: my level success as an internationally famous musician is entirely warranted given my lack of recorded output, non-existent touring schedule, and exceedingly limited marketing strategy.

For everything else, it’s just, like, your opinion, man.

And obviously artistry *isn’t* about raw skill. I bet everyone who plays an instrument will know of at least a handful of virtuoso players of that instrument whose music you just wouldn’t want to listen to once the initial admiration of their virtuosity wears off.

Music geeks might enjoy the subtleties of complex time signatures, or find the use of the Lydian mode endlessly captivating, but there are loads of people who won’t be that arsed and that’s fine too.

Why? It is my opinion and I am perfectly entitled to have it.

Because anyone who thinks they have a greater or more worthy love of music than someone else, because they don’t like the music that the other person likes, needs to get over themselves.

***Because anyone who thinks they have a greater or more worthy love of music than someone else, because they don’t like the music that the other person likes, needs to get over themselves.***

But that is the entire purpose of this thread.

Well true, you’re not the only one who needs to get over themselves, I’ll grant that. You just put it very succinctly 🙂