Yet another car itch - fast diesel estate

Much as it pains me to say it as the owner of a petrol Audi…

When looking at a fast/hot version, I would go Audi for diesel, BMW for petrol.

As for comments above about watches - entirely subjective.

I appreciate a good (proper) watch for what it is - a masterpiece of miniature mechanical engineering.

Am looking for a (relatively) affordable Audemars Piguet or Vacheron Constantin to add to my small collection; they will increase in value due to quality and (relative) scarcity so can be properly classified as heirlooms

In contrast, I have no wish to add another car; unless it's rare, a car is a depreciating asset with more maintenance requirements than a quality watch will ever have - and will last for a much shorter time period.

In contrast, I have no wish to add another car; unless it’s rare, a car is a depreciating asset with more maintenance requirements than a quality watch will ever have – and will last for a much shorter time period.

You clearly didn't own a classic for some time and sell it during COVIDtimes then.

You may have missed it but Covid is now in the past so it's influence on car prices is irrelevant; as for your post, who did? Owned a classic car for some time and then sold it during Covid - that's what you said but is completely unrelated to my post. Memo to self - this is STW and posts frequently have little connection to the subject.

I've never owned a 'classic' and don't own one now; my 4.2l v8 diesel probably doesn't tick many of the approved eco boxes so I'm a very naughty boy.

Are there any aussie produced classic cars? No? Didn't think so. Did you export yours from the UK?

On a different subject, did your old man in/near Lincoln decide on a kitchen bloke for the requirement you posted about?

My point was that not all cars are depreciating assets. And in STW tradition of course I selected a single point from your comment.

Are there any aussie produced classic cars? No? Didn’t think so. Did you export yours from the UK?

Are you ****ing kidding? And they survive relatively intact too.

I sent him all the suggestions, AFAIK the old man has been too busy dealing with multiple health issues and a wife that just had a knee reconstruction to have done anything about his kitchen (apart no doubt from scrutinising them on Companies House). But thanks for asking.

You may have missed it but Covid is now in the past so it’s influence on car prices is irrelevant;

Irrelevant? I wish. Everything doubled in price and stayed there.

Anything 'classic' is 4 times too high and still advertised as "price is only going one way" even though the advert is 5 months old.

Covid is now in the past

It very much isn’t.

Back OT for the OP, on YouTube Joe Achilles has a comparison video of the M340i and M340d plus several separate reviews of both, worth a watch.

When looking at a fast/hot version, I would go Audi for diesel, BMW for petrol.

The S4 is better specced then the M340, certainly in the cabin. Don't even get electric seats in the BMW FFS. However, my last car was an RS5 and don't think I'd be happy sat in a (albeit slightly more modern) Audi that wasn't the RS. For now anyway, fancy something different

Back OT for the OP, on YouTube Joe Achilles has a comparison video of the M340i and M340d plus several separate reviews of both, worth a watch.

Yes, watched a couple of his videos. The 340d on the track shows what it can do

Anything ‘classic’ is 4 times too high and still advertised as “price is only going one way” even though the advert is 5 months old

It is, just not the way they think.

That car sounds incredibly over the top but I'd like a shot of one. The only thing that would put me off owning one would the initial cost and the complexity of the engine for servicing and if it goes wrong.

If you can afford one then why not? Much more sensible than any sports car.

Username … erm, hang on… no it doesn’t.

My old user name was greatlover bur MrsMC made my change it due to advertising standards...

I had a 435d (sameish engine as the 340d), loads of go and economical but the car was felt basically 'unbalanced' and always seemed on edge.  Hard to place what was wrong, but a colleague who had one thought the same (and he was an ex-rally driver).  The engine etc weighs not a lot more, but obviously placed differently as it's longer.

Swapped to a 320d (xDrive as per the 435d) and yes it's only got 190bhp rather than +300bhp but it's vary rare I miss the extra even though I live in a region where I can pretty much use it on every journey.  The 320d handles a damn sight better/safer, even on the same wheels/tyres and it'll still top 140mph while averaging nearly 50mpg.

I have a 335d

It's great, (except that time when black smoke started pouring out the air vents, it was £3000 to fix, BMW said it wasn't a warranty issue with the dpf filter, then sent me a letter saying it was a warrant issue, then changed the dpf under warranty for a third dpf filter.) The price of tires and brakes came as a surprise.

Apart from that is been 50,000 miles of a great driving car. It's on 140,000 now.

I changes to non run flats. They are a chunk cheaper and it's made the car a bit nicer.

Next car will not be as fast.

I live in the UK.
I've never done a track day.
I like having my licence, 0 points and not being jailed/ fined or crashing due to excessive speed.

The power is awesome for... 4 seconds then pointless.

I've maintained my car and so I'd rather stick with this car until it's dead than get another car and run the risk that the new to me one is not a lemon.

A mate has her insurance double on her Yaris. Just due to price increases. The insurance might be a reason to sell it on before it's broken.

BMW i4 has 335 hp...

just sayin.. 🙂

A nice EV would be much faster and just as big inside 😁

Faster at destination? There isn't any EV yet which would faster at destination than regular diesel estate on my holiday drives. Especially during winter and/or having anything on the roof.

I follow speed limits as we have insanely expensive speeding fines here.

Tall Martin and I have exactly the same USP.   After sleeping in it and driving my F31 320d this morning I won’t be changing it, although I am looking for a BMW Indy near North London if anyone knows one?

ld live an m340d G21, but I’ve got other priorities, and longer term plans for vehicles which I should adhere to.

Is this a ‘stealth’ add?

And they’re over £90k…

Spam post is indeed spammy

"Rates from as low as 9.4%"

Low???

Another vote here for the M340d, used to have a 335d Touring but went for something smaller and faster a couple of years ago.

Next car will be undoubtedly be the 340d- Merc and Audi rivals can't compete.

Put a deposit down on a 2017 520d on Saturday, tested the equivalent 3 series and didn't like how small and 'old school' it felt, more like driving my partners 2006 Mini than driving my current car (passat estate). If they were in budget, I'd have had a 530 or 535d. Big, comfy, fast, and good enough on fuel.

Gets absolutely rave reviews as a drivers car

Hmmm - thats because they want to sell more cars, and get more YT views (appealing to middle aged men)

I like cars and have had various nice ones in the past. I've had a few BMWs and now a Merc E class estate.

My conclusion is that that modern BMWs are not sports cars, they are just nice handling cars. By all means by one of the nice diesels as they are lovely engines, but you are not buying a sports car. Yes they go round corners nicely, and you get that nice rear wheel drive through corner feeling, and they feel more dynamic than any standard Merc.

I much prefer my tank E-class. No pretence that its a sports car, just big, comfy and rapid enough. The diesel engine isnt as silky smooth as the BMW diesels, but its a very very quiet experience over all whilst driving. I get in it knowing every journey is going to be chilled, comfortable and I will get out the other end not having to have worked as hard as you would in any BMW.

Get a proper 'M' car and thats a proper sports car, will feel a world different to any luke warm BMW

BMWs kind of encourage you to go quicker as they are more dynamic, but the fact is you would be doing very silly speeds to have fun with those extra dynamics. They are heavy cars so actually when you get near the edge of grip they are bloody difficult to control (unless you are a driving god) and the speeds at which they start to slip are stupid high. So they you could take it to a track, where then you would see that they are so compromised in every department that you would regret buying one.

I much prefer enjoying driving A-B on dull roads now in the Merc than I ever did in a BMW. Because BMWs are more dynamic you have to concentrate more on driving them. I used to take my BMWs out just for a drive too, but always ended up frustrated as they always underwhelmed ie brake fade or not engaging enough (because the speed needed to make it engaging was not safe on the road)

I will forever now by 'dull' daily cars, but I am currently saving for a weekend car ie something like a Caterham

I bought a 530d SE G 31 and have to say its great and has ample power previously owned several three series inc tourers and the 5 series is my preference by quite a long way now.

YouTube Joe Achilles has a comparison video of the M340i and M340d plus several separate reviews of both, worth a watch.

I stopped watching him along time ago when I realised that he is clearly on the bank roll of BMW.

I follow speed limits as we have insanely expensive speeding fines here.

Well, you say "insanely expensive" but it sounds like the level of fine is pitched about right.

Allegedly, Bmw diesels have a habit of catching fire.

It’s the EGR that has a propensity to overheat when very dirty in the B57 - not sure of other variants.   Older / coked up cars have had this start a sudden fire.

Theres two recalls on this a) an installed software cutout/ alert based on sensor info and an EGR clean while they waited for parts availability and b) a replacement EGR.

Mine had the former done 8 months ago and having the latter done durning its service in March.

Put a deposit down on a 2017 520d on Saturday, tested the equivalent 3 series and didn’t like how small and ‘old school’ it felt

I think the newer ones are a big improvement on the previous gen tbh

Get a proper ‘M’ car and thats a proper sports car, will feel a world different to any luke warm BMW

My last car was an Audi RS5. At some point I'll probably get a BMW M5 in this flavour, but that's not what I'm after right now

Previous car

Car I'm looking at.

Would prefer diamond cut wheels to the black, but the Shadowline (Black) pack seem to be slightly better specced in general

Dacia Jogger owner here, they are shit. They do what they do well but I've done 30k miles in 14 months and I'd rather have done it in a BMW. That'll teach me for ordering a car before getting a big pay rise. I'm trying to figure out a way out of the PCP that doesn't cost me but that's a different story/thread.

Anyway, M340d, lovely but I just can't get away with BMW's recent design language, it's all over the place.. However, allow me to introduce the Volvo V60 T8 Twin Engined Polestar Engineered. Not only does it have a ludicoursly long name is also had 405bhp, and does 0-60 in 4.4s. 50mpg real world (113mpg if you believe the hype).

However, allow me to introduce the Volvo V60 T8 Twin Engined Polestar Engineered

Now, that I quite like.

However, these 400bhp PHEV vehicles (see also Range Rover P400e) aren't really that are they? They are usually a 300(ish) 2l with an electric boost (for as long as it lasts - probably not that long), or it get's used up trundling about locally purely on the motors. That said a 2l in a Volvo estate is going to fare better than in a big Range Rover

But - I am going to research and see if real world usage of these proves me wrong and it might well be on the list - especially if the emissions will make it beneficial to buy through the Ltd company (usually not)

That's true, which is why my looking at XC90 T8 Hybrids got as far as finding out the real world mpg. A 2l petrol in a giant SUV is never going to work once the battery is depleted. 303bhp in that Polestar from ICE alone.

I'm fairly sure that the battery will be kept at a level where (under normal driving) it always has enough power for a burst (how long could you use it for in every day driving? 4 seconds?) - after the electrical range is depleted it'll just be recharged during braking or taxing the engine when not on full throttle. It may not work on track (due to the ratio of throttle/braking periods) but in normal driving it should be available to release 400bhp nearly all the time.

Get a proper ‘M’ car and thats a proper sports car, will feel a world different to any luke warm BMW

no BMW since maybe the 1st gen z4 has been a "proper sports car" - M cars may drive well, but they're big, heavy lumps that are seriously compromised to allow for the packaging and comfort that a large saloon car requires. A proper sports car cuts these compromises very differently and drives better as a result. That's not really relevent here because you can't get a sports car with the seats & boot of a 3-series estate

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

Now, that I quite like.

However, these 400bhp PHEV vehicles (see also Range Rover P400e) aren’t really that are they? They are usually a 300(ish) 2l with an electric boost (for as long as it lasts – probably not that long), or it get’s used up trundling about locally purely on the motors. That said a 2l in a Volvo estate is going to fare better than in a big Range Rover

But – I am going to research and see if real world usage of these proves me wrong and it might well be on the list – especially if the emissions will make it beneficial to buy through the Ltd company (usually not)

One of the bigwigs at work has a p400e, I was and am dubious but he reckons it works really well and the ICE alone is plenty torquey enough. 🤷‍♂️

Volvo V60 T8

What a horrible drivetrain on otherwise nice car. On snowy roads you don't know whether it is going to understeer or oversteer, it is possible to force 4WD on but that will eat the EV mileage.

I see what you mean, the roads are always covered in snow round here. I don't understand people when they say they're getting a 4WD/SUV "for when it snows" when we have at most around 10 days where snow actually sits on the roads enough to cause problems.

However, these 400bhp PHEV vehicles (see also Range Rover P400e) aren’t really that are they? They are usually a 300(ish) 2l with an electric boost (for as long as it lasts – probably not that long),

well how long do you need 400bhp for? any street use of that power is going to be followed by a period of constant speed or braking.

travelling at a constant 70mph on flat ground uses 35-45bhp, so ample spare power from the 300 petrol horses to top the battery back up.

With modern motors giving high torque from zero and more importantly the software to wrangle it, thats going to be a better performing, and more efficient car than a 3litre turbo or 4litre NA engine producing the same nominal max bhp.

I don’t understand why this would be an itch. A fast estate is a sad compromise. If I want a performance car I want a performance car. A fast estate is the car you begrudgingly end up with because you weren’t allowed or couldn’t justify the one you actually wanted. Making it diesel too just makes it even more tragic.

After the dust settles everyone else then ends up sharing the roads with frustrated man-children driving the BMW and Audi estates they fail to understand were never what they wanted, driving unreasonably to somehow convince themselves they’re happy with their life choices and owning the sad unconvincing compromises they were manipulated into lusting over.

I don’t understand why this would be an itch. A fast estate is a sad compromise. If I want a performance car I want a performance car. A fast estate is the car you begrudgingly end up with because you weren’t allowed or couldn’t justify the one you actually wanted. Making it diesel too just makes it even more tragic.

I'd disagree. Nearly all the driving I do is either with the kids, or solo is with a bike or a surfboard, as I'm going somewhere to ride my bike or surf. I like a car that's nice to drive, but there's no point in having a boxster as I'd never have a reason to drive it, so getting something thats just practical enough to get me and my kit to where I'm going, but still provides the performance and handling I want is the right compromise.

In my case I get away with a GT86, but if I had a longer surfboard or needed 2 people in the car at the same time as kit, something a bit bigger would be required.

After the dust settles everyone else then ends up sharing the roads with frustrated man-children driving the BMW and Audi estates they fail to understand were never what they wanted, driving unreasonably to somehow convince themselves they’re happy with their life choices and owning the sad unconvincing compromises they were manipulated into lusting over.

That load of twaddle was almost poetic.

Did it flow from your conciousness, or take a while to compile?

I like a car that’s nice to drive

Then get something like a Merc E class estate - you get out the other end completely relaxed.

I am with Zomg - marketing makes you lust after these are 'sports cars' and if you are happy paying big sums of money for an average car that is quick then go ahead. As above I would argue they are worst of both worlds. Trying to be sporty but failing, trying to be comfortable but failing.

In my case I get away with a GT86

If you went to a 335d etc you would immediately wish you had your GT86 back!

That load of twaddle was almost poetic.

kinda right though...

I wanted a fast estate. Looked at Mercedes C class (E was too big), BMW 3 series (not a great boot and Mrs TiRed didn't like the steering wheel - small hands), and the Volvo V60. I liked the V60 a lot - definite head choice, nothing to dislike except the screen touch controls and high centre console. But in the end went for a Macan V6 diesel. Same engine as stepfather's Jaguar. And I didn't want/need a Diesel engine, and I definitely didn't want another SUV! It's great drive. Nicer than the Volvo, and up with the BMW.

Last car was an M520d - it was bloody lovely to drive, incredibly relaxing and very comfortable. Never felt like it was a sports car though it was adequately quick and would take a bike in the back no problem if you took the front wheel off.  It was massive though and weighted the best part of 2 tonnes.   I can see why you'd have a quick estate rather than something quick and another family wagon, especially if space or funds are tight.

Why TF is everyone so damn judgemental on this site when it comes to car choice?

If we're now onto sharing our individual perversions for slightly obscure fast estate PHEVs, I'm going to publicly admit to my unhealthy desire to own a Peugeot 508 Sport Engineered.  Yes please.

Why TF is everyone so damn judgemental on this site when it comes to car choice?

I agree, but...

M520d

No such thing!

I’d just like to say that I couldn’t afford the Audi or BMW I probably really wanted. But I’ve ended up with a Golf R Estate which I think is just wonderful. I also had a GTD estate, but I really much prefer the petrol to the diesel. The diesel was much more economical of course. But I still smile almost every single time I look at, sit in, or hear my R start up.

If we’re now onto sharing our individual perversions for slightly obscure fast estate PHEVs, I’m going to publicly admit to my unhealthy desire to own a Peugeot 508 Sport Engineered

I like that too, but....

Auto Express long term review

Mileage: 5,704
Economy: 35.2mpg

What's the point, apart from reps getting a low BIK?

Regarding the phev, when I bought my Cupra (300hp petrol) I was given a Cupra Phev for 3 days while mine was being prepped. I really didn’t enjoy it, 245hp but then it felt like it dropped to 140 or something. That was a good mix of town and motorway journey.

Peugeot 508 Sport Engineered

Can I be the first to say "Meh"?

People dont use PHEV's properly. Autoexpress clearly arent driving that 508 correctly and never charge it up.

I have a mazda CX60 PHEV (not the OP's target car) it gets over 60mpg and does loads and loads of long journeys. This week over 1000 motorway miles, last week 600 and it is a 2.5 petrol.

As for performance estates surely an oxymoron!get a nice car sure, but dont bother with the massive engine, estates handle like crap compared to priper performance cars

zomg
Full Member

I don’t understand why this would be an itch. A fast estate is a sad compromise. If I want a performance car I want a performance car. A fast estate is the car you begrudgingly end up with because you weren’t allowed or couldn’t justify the one you actually wanted. Making it diesel too just makes it even more tragic.

After the dust settles everyone else then ends up sharing the roads with frustrated man-children driving the BMW and Audi estates they fail to understand were never what they wanted, driving unreasonably to somehow convince themselves they’re happy with their life choices and owning the sad unconvincing compromises they were manipulated into lusting over.

LMAO you're entitled to your opinion but what a big old load of arse that is.

As for performance estates surely an oxymoron!get a nice car sure, but dont bother with the massive engine, estates handle like crap compared to priper performance cars

Again, you're entitled to your opinion but do you really think you'd drive a Taycan CT and tell me they handle like crap then? Or a D3 S Touring? Or an M3/M5 Touring? Or an RS6 Avant? Or an C63 wagon? Or an Evo IX wagon?

Come on. An Elise is not the only way to have a performance car.

I love my performance cars, but to be fair my Merc AMG GLC 43 handled like a dog. Nice place to be, straight line was nice. Long steady journeys were nice, but clattered and jarred over every piece of rough road. From a driving perspective I much prefer the drive from my smaller lighter Cupra.

I completely get why people want and need sporty estates…….I’ve just ordered another fast SUV (Audi this time), but if I could I’d rather stick with the Cupra.