Flaperon: "Aren't neutral waters international waters, or am I missing something? "
Neutral waters in this definition would be a neutral country's waters.
HeathenWoods;Typical zionist reaction,we will do what we want,if you complain you are a holocaust denying Nazi.
Hear,hear Ernie.
No country which in history has been responsible for slaughtering people has the right to use the term state terrorism ?
Well if I were PM of Turkey I'd prioritise making reparations to Armenians, Kurds and Greeks for my country's genocidal past and repressive present over whining on about a handful of my terrorist-supporting citizens who picked a fight with the wrong guy..
I never hear any anti-Jewish sentiments.
Hmm, try listening harder - maybe somewhere other than cable telly?
over whining on about a handful of my terrorist-supporting citizens who picked a fight with the wrong guy..
Ah right, I see ........you didn't support the humanitarian aid flotilla to Gaza. Well that would certainly explain your hostile reaction to my posts - you believe the people of Gaza should continue to suffer under Israeli occupation. Luckily most people in the world don't appear to agree with you.
Glad we sorted that out, just a shame you didn't confess earlier.
Well that would certainly explain your hostile reaction to my posts
Nah - just hostile to anti-semites who dress up their racism in the language of the trendy left...
Nah - just hostile to anti-semites who dress up their racism in the language of the trendy left...
Just wondering if you consider everyone who criticises the Israeli government/military as anti-semitic?
Just wondering if you consider everyone who criticises the Israeli government/military as anti-semitic?
No just those who have readily to hand the kind of cartoons posted above...
Nah - just hostile to anti-semites who dress up their racism in the language of the trendy left...
So I am a "racist" because I dare to criticise Israel ..... am I ?
You are an Israeli aren't you Norton ? ........or at least a non-Israeli Zionist.
But that's besides the point, if you didn't support the humanitarian aid flotilla to Gaza, and you believe the people of Gaza should continue to suffer under Israeli occupation, then we were never going to agree - whatever I said.
So I am a "racist" because I dare to to criticise Israel ..... am I ?
Seems fair Ernie - you've called people racist for less! 😕
Hello ratty..........talking bollox again are we ? 😀
is that denying it Ernie?
Or shall we drag up your bombadillo ranting again?
This has been blown out of proportion. This wasn't just food aid going to a starving country. This was a random unofficial boat with alot of passengers carrying items including cement and bricks entering a war zone. Hardly a boat crammed full of only essential human needs.
What else do you expect? Israel to allow a boat to enter without wanting to board and atleast check it doesn't contain weapons? It was a hostile boarding so people died, that is war.
LOL ! ..........you never fail with your diversionary tactics, do you ratty ? 😀
Please, please, don't ever change ratty...........I would be completely gobsmacked, floored, utterly confused...........if you ever did !
Got to admit Ernie, the worlds taken a funny turn when its you who's being branded a racist, and its me, the apparently right wing nazi, who's defending the Jewish untermensch 😆
I have a fair idea who the cocks are around here 🙂
Got to admit Ernie...........
Indeed it is ratty !
.........and I can't believe that we've found something which we can both agree on.
Still, there's little chance that it will ever happen again, so fret not my pertinacious adversary......normality will resume I am sure.
What an over reaction as usual.
Just reading this discussion and there's an ad for visiting Israel on the right of the page. Oh the irony! 😀
solamanda - Member
"This wasn't just food aid going to a starving country. This was a random unofficial boat with alot of passengers carrying items including cement and bricks entering a war zone. Hardly a boat crammed full of only essential human needs."
Er, what? Nobody's ever claimed it's carrying nothing but food aid that I've seen, but building materials are absolutely neccesary aid for Gaza, and aid that Israel has been blocking- needed to rebuild houses, hospitals, sewers, water systems and general infrastructure.
Apparently the cargo also contained items useful to the continuation of the intifada by being used to politicise Palestinian children through the use of colourful imagery...
...In other words, such deadly items as childrens crayons.
Exactly how hard do you have to throw a crayola before it becomes acceptable to respond with automatic weapons fire?
You have to throw it pretty hard. That's tricky, so the kids mostly throw stones. The little bastards deserve everything they get if they cross that line. Teaches them not to pick fights with the wrong guy, you see.
HeathenWoods;Typical zionist reaction,we will do what we want,if you complain you are a holocaust denying Nazi.
Hear,hear Ernie.
Lol. You've really not read my posts have you duckman? In every single one I have said that Israel's actions are reprehensible, inexcusable and so on. What I have also said, however, is that let's not forget that Israel exists within a region in which anti-semitism is widespread; a partial explanation for a paranoid state is not an excuse. It's an attempt to have a conversation about the complexities of the situation. Israel's actions are not defensible - it's doubtful if the manner in which modern Israel was created is, in itself, defensible - but it takes a special kind of dualistic naivety to suppose that Hamas, or Syria, or Iran, or Egypt, are, as political entities, in any way, 'better' or less reprehensible and that Israel's actions are without any kind of context at all.
The middle east is in a total mess and levelling the blame at any single country's door is to lose track of the complexity of teh situation.
It uses nazi-style tactics, simple as
No, it doesn't. It uses inexcusable, utterly repugnant tactics but these are not comparable to the tactics of the Nazis. As has been pointed out above the only regime directly comparable to the Nazis was the Stalinist phase of the USSR.
Not every monstrous political regime can be summed up as, "Fascist!" And no one's ever going to understand wtf is going on if they just join in with the chorus every time they sense a chance to reconfirm their own 'radical' 'progressive' beliefs. I'd guess you're too young to remember The Young Ones but you might have seen the repeats. Does this look familiar?
[img] 
[/img]
Yes, those protesters should bring their entire family to protest too with babies, old people, parents, etc ... then cry foul as loudly as they can by saying the evil empire has murdered them cold blooded. They were hacked to death with machete or something ... or being skewered alive ...
WTF! You guys do have a twisted mind by being good at either sticking your nose in others business or advocating something that is completely one sided with a die hard attitude. Worst still completely utterly racist.
Oh look ... they are from middle east (Palestine) ... they need help so we need to risk our lives to help them oh no ... they are "brothers & sisters" we need to help them ... WTF!
Yeah right ... dont even see you doing to the same to the Burmese regime nor protest strongly to the Chinese govt do you ... bunch bias no good cowards. So those people in the far east with "funny eyes" do not deserve help but those that do not eat bacon need helping more?
WTF! I say torpedo the aid ship North Korean style will learn you by trying to start a war.
😆 😈 😆
Behold! Ladies and gentlemen, the least coherent post in the history of STW. /thread, we can achieve no more.
You've really not read my posts have you duckman?
And yet you ignore/pretend not to understand what I have posted.
To save you the bother of going back a page, here it is again :
And that is precisely why some of the Zionist State's most vehement critics are Holocaust survivors.
Israel is a racist fascist state, and it uses the tactics of ethnic cleansing, military conquest, occupation, and expansionism.
It also uses the Nazi-style tacit, in violation of the Geneva Convention, of collective punishment of civilians in retaliation for any resistance to occupation.
And again in classic Nazi-style, and also in violation of the Geneva Convention, Israel moves its own civilian population onto occupied territories. Israel uses its civilians as instruments of conquest.
The attempt to break the Palestinian people into submission by creating a blockade and causing a humanitarian crises, has far more in common with the behaviour of a fascist pariah state, than the international norms which we would be right to expect. The Gaza Strip is in effect, an giant concentration camp.
And I for one, will not excuse, or shy away from denouncing, the Zionists ........ simply because of what the German Nazis did to the Jewish people.
A little while back there was another racist pariah state - in the form of the Apartheid Regime. The people who made up the backbone of that regime were the Boers, and they too were a people who had experienced persecution, slaughter, and concentration camps. But never at any time did I think it in some way, excused the racist and brutal behaviour of the Apartheid State. The Zionists are not special.
.
And I have already suggested that if it makes you feel better, I will replace the "racist fascist state" with "racist state which uses nazi-style tactics". It makes no odds to me.
Now, do you want to challenge that those examples which I give are not "nazi-style tactics" ?
Northwind: "Er, what? Nobody's ever claimed it's carrying nothing but food aid that I've seen, but building materials are absolutely neccesary aid for Gaza, and aid that Israel has been blocking- needed to rebuild houses, hospitals, sewers, water systems and general infrastructure."
Torpedo regardless ... trying to be clever ... fair and square no discrimination.
😈
ernie_lynch: "Israel is a racist fascist state, and it uses the tactics of ethnic cleansing, military conquest, occupation, and expansionism."
You need to bow down to Dear Leader Kim the peaceful loving dear leader because the whole world is trying to invade his dear country and you should ask him for forgiveness. Ask him to bless your mission.
So you are going to wipe Israel off the world map with your peace loving kind hearted aid aren't you?
You are so sweet with all your Nazi talk.
😆
No. stupid question.
What the blazes is Chewkw talking about?
Lifer - MemberWhat the blazes is Chewkw talking about?
The die hard bias attitude of those who went ape shite by crying foul because they could not breach the blockage, then trying to get the world media to portray them as victim of merciless state.
I say torpedo them trouble makers by stirring up nonsense.
😆
Ernie, you carry on misapplying historically specific terminology; they have become pretty much meaningless terms through misapplication so who am I to stop the trend. As far as I'm concerned it's enough to say that Israel is a paranoid and reprehensible state, there's no need to insistently call them fascist or Nazi-like. There are very real fascists and neo-nazis opposed to Israel and by lazily calling israeli fascist or nazi-like you muddy the waters and hide the activities of actual, real fascists and neo-nazis.
And that is precisely why some of the Zionist State's most vehement critics are Holocaust survivors.
And many more of its [i]other[/i] most vehement critics are neo-Nazis who use the cover of liberal hegemonic antipathy to Israeli violence to insinuate an anti-Semitic agenda; you keep dodging that one Ernie, why can't you admit that, yes, there are anti-semites who would love to see Israel burn?
Just in case duckman happens along again: I have long seen Israel as a rogue state that acts with little regard for human rights and do not defend any of its actions. But at the same time I'm not about to pretend that it isn't surrounded by states who would seek to eradicate it and, seemingly, most of its people. It's a mess out there and I don't thinking standing on the sidelines shouting, "Booo! Fascist!" Is really getting to grips with the situation. I'm still lolling at the zionist accusation, you were pretty far off the mark with that one.
Ernie........blah, blah, blah.........anti-Semitic agenda....blah, blah, blah, ........more blah, blah, blah
Opposition to the Zionism and the Israeli State is not based on racism against Jews. So don't go pulling this
"anti-Semitic" card bollox on me.
I couldn't give a monkeys if some of the people who are opposed to Israel are members of the BNP. I will continue to denounce Israel as I see fit, and I will continue to support the Palestinian people in their struggle.
And I will also continue to denounce the tactics of ethnic cleansing, military conquest, occupation, and expansionism. I will highlight the similarities between these tactics and those of the Nazis. I will continue to denounce Israel for violating the Geneva Convention in the Occupied Territories.
I will condemn the bulldozing of homes and the systematic destruction of ancient olive groves and all other forms of collective punishment. I will condemn the annexation of East Jerusalem and the building of settlements on Occupied Territories. I will condemn the racism at the very core of the Israeli State.
And I will continue to praise the courageous stand of many Israelis and Jews against the barbaric Zionist State. Tonight, as we sit in comfort and safety before our PCs, there are brave Israelis in custody who were on board the Aid Flotilla for Gaza. And they, along with their Palestinian colleagues, won't be amongst the foreign nationals who are being released as the result of international pressure. I don't know what fate awaits them, and I don't suppose they do either, but I do know that I am humbled by their bravery and courage.
I will never forget the bravery of Mordechai Vanunu ......still to this day, he is paying the price for his courageous stand.
http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article443950.ece?homepage=true
ernie, not meaning to put gasoline on the fire, so to speak, but just how many times have you been to Israel or Gaza? Have you even been there at all? 🙂
Whoops,sorry Heathenwoods; That was meant for Norton. 😳
Some interesting opinions going on here. It appears to me that some STWers look at the Mid East problem with little understanding of the other sides problems and concerns. That's a good way of achieving not a lot, just like the whole middle east issue itself.
If you look at the troubles in N.I (more complex issues in Mid East but similar issues)you had two sides that couldn't live together and it took an amazing individual (Mo Mowlem) to bring them together. She had an amazing determination to find a solution and to me was a very inspirational lady. A determined, forward looking individual like Mo to bring people together, coupled with focused international pressure on all sides will bring a solution to the problem as no matter how fascist, racist, violent, hateful either side happen to be or regard the other side of being has to happen. We can't turn the clock back now so people in the Mid East have to live together.
The "aid convoy" fiasco could have been avoided if Egypt and Israel had invited the ships to dock in one of their ports and they could have requested that the UN inspect the cargo. Then Israel/Egypt could have temporarily lifted their blockade and forwarded the "aid" on. The supply of arms can be limited if the USA/UK and Iran/Syria quit their blinkered support for either side etc etc.
What is needed is the political will power ON BOTH SIDES to sort the mess out and until that happens it will be business as usual in the Mid East, unfortunately.
IMHO 😀
Opposition to the Zionism and the Israeli State is not based on racism against Jews. So don't go pulling this "anti-Semitic" card bollox on me.
If you read more carefully (like, with your eyes open) rather than jumping to assumptions you might have noticed that [i]I'm[/i] also critical of the Israeli state, that I've said all along that its actions are reprehensible. But what I've also said is that there are vehemently anti-Semitic elements amongst the critics of Israel; at no point have I said that all criticism of Israell is anti-Semitic. Do you seriously believe that there is no anti-Semitism involoved in *any* of this? Either you're sticking your head in the sand, have no idea of the world beyond little England, or really, really don't want anti-Semitism discussed for whatever reason.
I will never forget the bravery of Mordechai Vanunu
Nor will many other people, your point is caller?
What is needed is the political will power ON BOTH SIDES to sort the mess out and until that happens it will be business as usual in the Mid East, unfortunately.
+1!
Hw; The abuse that Israel is getting is because of recent history.I associate the COUNTRY with the acts,not the religion.Most of the posts on the beeb website yesterday did the same thing.Trying to suggest that the condemnation of the last few days is anti-semitic is an increasingly tired old excuse that is trotted out by the likes of that absolute arse of an Aussie spokesman that they use.Mind you,having visited it,they can't even get on with each other.Having a common enemy (that is in little position to fight back) must be handy for the Israelis.
it cant be anti semitic as both parties are semitic.
To cry racism when people object to Israeli actions is cheap and meaningless..I noticed that even Radio 4 has had Israel citixzens on justifying ehat Israel did bit has not had an interview with a protestor. It is clear that no one here is learning from history and it is shocking to see Israel committing it's own atrocities and oppressing people in the name of security. The violate iNternational law and UN mandates and are a law unto themseleve. Certainly if this was a Muslim nation doing this to Jews we would see a different response from the West.
I'm afraid that Israel will only stop taking pre-emptive action that violates international law when forced to do so by trade embargoes led by the US.
Until then we're pissing in the wind.
Right I think this is my final post on the subject,we (the rest of the world)need to pull this situation into some kind of sustainable line.
Israel needs to stop expanding (of course they need to hand back a lot),palestine/gaza need more than a postage stamp sized piece of land to stand a chance of building any kind of self sustaining economy .if we stopped blindly supporting israels position it could be one less thing for the islamists of this world to hate us for (I've always liked the view from the moral high ground,may even take the bike up there for the ride back down)
I don't really care about changing any of your minds,it'll make no difference there are a few blokes around the world that could, but they don't give a toss for the views of a plumber from essex. Good luck chaps im of for a ride with the kids
The IDF should simply nuke themselves. Deals with a lot of problems and would amount to a novel PR coup. Can't be any worse than the latest foot/uzi interface.
Foot/Uzi Interface...I like that
Trying to suggest that the condemnation of the last few days is anti-semitic is an increasingly tired old excuse
Nope, that's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that [i]amongst[/i] it, anti-semites and neo-nazis are present and that it's useful to be wary of the way in which some of the 'criticism'* is an excuse for wheeling out thinly veiled nazi sympathies and straight forward prejudice. I'm not talking about the liberal european press but some of the Arab and/or Muslim groups as well as smaller crypto-nazi groups/individuals in the West.
I summed up my point pages ago: sometimes the enemy of your enemy is also your enemy.
You know how we always get those videos of Hezbollah or Hamas celebrating a suicide bombing or whatever shown on the news? Anyone seen this video on the news of Israelis celebrating the attack, outside the Turkish embassy in Tel Aviv?