[Closed] William Hague best thing you have said in ages !

Remember as well, that Iran has vowed to wipe Isreal off the map, that is rather provocative, and would certainly get them twitchy.

this is simply not true.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jun/14/post155

amongst other sources of translation

Time to disarm Israel of its illegal nuclear weapons

On what basis do you claim Israel's possession of nuclear weapons is illegal?

JY thats an interesting question that I will think about on my ride. That wasn't what I was saying but understand your thought process. I have no idea about the true extent to which any of this is "spun". Of course, all sides (for want of a better word) will manipulate/filter information in ways that suits their interest. Hence I am not going to take sides on who is seeding and who is inflaming the perceptions. I make a much more basic point. Merely, that if there is a perception that someone is arming themselves that this is IN ITSELF a concern because, even if untrue (WMD) it can lead to devasting and unwelcome consequences eg conflict in the M East.

Hence I hope that, behind the scenes, the US and the UK are doing all they can to dissuade Israel from a preemptive strike.

Perception is of course universal as it is personal. Nobody know reality, but everybody perceives it, and in their own manner.

unfitgeezer - Member

I have no more to say as some people are all to quick to blame Israel...

You want to talk about nuclear weapons in the Middle East but not mention Israel - the only country in the Middle East to have nuclear weapons ? 😕

Massive thumbs up to Israel pity the rest of the world haven't got any balls!

So you think having illegal nuclear weapons is a really good idea - how does that tie in with your original post ?

I know you have repeatedly said [i]"I have no more to say"[/i] but I would be interested in your answer - just put [i]"I have no more to say"[/i] at the beginning of it before explaining your position.

So you think having illegal nuclear weapons is a really good idea

There you are Ernie - you've said it again, so I'll ask again.

On what basis do you claim Israel's possession of nuclear weapons is illegal?

TJ, the lost in translation thing is pretty good, maybe he was misqouted and want to be pals with them really. I am sure that Iran would never assist any terrorist organisations.

Either all Nuclear weapons are illegal or none are. I fail to see where it is legal for one country to have them, and illegal for another.

I am pretty sure that Isreal having them has avoided any major attacks on it.

I have no more to say !

In an ideal world we wouldn't have any nuclear weapons...so Israels got them so what so has China! Along with a load of other countries...

[i]
I would certainly be quite uncomfortable with Iran having neuclear capabilities, as they could easily find their way to a terrorist group.[/i] Well said ! And never a truer word !

wallace1492 - Member

TJ, the lost in translation thing is pretty good, maybe he was misqouted and want to be pals with them really. I am sure that Iran would never assist any terrorist organisations.

Unlike Isreal that assasinates people it does not like in other countries or the US that supports terrorists - iran contra anyone?

Either all Nuclear weapons are illegal or none are. I fail to see where it is legal for one country to have them, and illegal for another.

Various UN resolutions

I am pretty sure that Isreal having them has avoided any major attacks on it.

So then its a good idea for Iran to have nukes as it would pevernt eh US from attacking it.

There you are Ernie - you've said it again, so I'll ask again.

On what basis do you claim Israel's possession of nuclear weapons is illegal?

On the basis that I have provocatively been calling Israel's nuclear weapons illegal since yesterday, precisely because I wanted someone like you to point out that Israel has never signed Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, has never cooperated with UN inspectors, etc.

Iran's problem appears to be that it has done precisely that. Perhaps they should simply take Israel's stance and everything will be hunky dory ?

Or a better solution would be, to disarm Israel of its illegal nuclear weapons which are a menace to both regional and global peace.

I am sure that Iran would never assist any terrorist organisations

l'm sure you're right 🙂

But I'm fairly sure the CIA have assisted far more terrorists than Iran are ever likely to
hence, I'd be far more concerned about them

One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. There will always be injustice. Both sides will do nasty things that we don't agree with, doesn't make it right, you will not stop people fighting or all the injusticies around the world. What we can try and do is keep it to a minimum, and that may well be by means we do not agree with. Is it right to kill a terrorist, if he is a terrorist in our peception.

UN resolutions are just people voting for their own self interest, doesnt mean that they are right.

Iran having nukes would not prevent anyone attacking them, and I don't think anyone should. However i would prefer that they did not have them

On the basis that I have provocatively been calling Israel's nuclear weapons illegal since yesterday, precisely because I wanted someone like you to point out that Israel has never signed Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, has never cooperated with UN inspectors, etc.

So, you concede that they're not illegal then?

Or a better solution would be, to disarm Israel of its illegal nuclear weapons which are a menace to both regional and global peace.

Really? How many people have Israel attacked with their "illegal" (not really) nuclear arsenal? Which middle eastern countries have Israel refused to acknowledge and how many times have Israel been attacked by neighbouring countries since getting them?

One things for sure Ernie - I can see why you keep voting for Red Ken despite having vowed not to do so 😯

So, you concede that they're not illegal then?

illegal is a word that's used to mean against a set of rules - like an illegal chess move - so maybe

unlawful is another thing altogether

wallace1492

Iran having nukes would not prevent anyone attacking them,

wallace1492

I am pretty sure that Isreal having them has avoided any major attacks on it.

so they would not act as a deterrent for Iran but do for Israel?

TandemJeremy - Member

wallace1492

Iran having nukes would not prevent anyone attacking them,

wallace1492

I am pretty sure that Isreal having them has avoided any major attacks on it.

sothey would not act as a deterrent for Iran but do for Israel?

Yes. No Arab country has attacked Isreal - IMHO they would use them if required. If Iran acquires them, they will be fledgling, and unable to be deployed a great distance, so would probably not stop the USA from attacking. Diffetent circumstances.

read between the lines [i]TandemJeremy[/i] its been said on here already...if Iran have nuclear weapons they could very easily fall into the wrong hands ! If you dont think that could happen you really need to open your eyes !

So, you concede that they're not illegal then?

Not at all, I consider them to be as illegal as Iran's mythical nuclear ambitions. The UN and the International Atomic Energy Agency have both voted that Israel should sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty and allow UN inspectors to inspect their nuclear stockpiles. If Iran can do that, then I can't see why Israel can't, specially as the claim not to have any nuclear weapons.

One things for sure Ernie - I can see why you keep voting for Red Ken despite having vowed not to do so

And that there ^^ is a classic example of how a halfwit like you is unable to have any sort of debate without resorting the puerile playground taunting unconnected with the subject matter. The topic of this thread is Iran/nuclear weapons/Middle East, your need to refer to a candidate in the Greater London mayoral elections shows just how bankrupt you are of any intelligent comment. Well done.

Ah, bit close to the bone there then eh Ernie?

So, you don't think that your repeated support for a well know Anti-Semite is somewhat indicative of your position on middle eastern geopolitics - a bit like voting BNP sort of gives away your position on immigration.

Sorry - I suppose thats not true is it?

Probably all part of the Zionist/Bilderberg/NWO/Reptile conspiracy... 🙄

One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. There will always be injustice. Both sides will do nasty things that we don't agree with, doesn't make it right, you will not stop people fighting or all the injusticies around the world. What we can try and do is keep it to a minimum, and that may well be by means we do not agree with. Is it right to kill a terrorist, if he is a terrorist in our peception.

So basically its ok for us and our buddies, just not for those scary Arab types that don't like us much?

As someone mentioned above, the US' complicity in terrorism in S America massively dwarfs anything carried out by Al Quaeda or Hezbollah. That's not a nutty conspiracy theory either, just a matter of historical record.

grum - Member

One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. There will always be injustice. Both sides will do nasty things that we don't agree with, doesn't make it right, you will not stop people fighting or all the injusticies around the world. What we can try and do is keep it to a minimum, and that may well be by means we do not agree with. Is it right to kill a terrorist, if he is a terrorist in our peception.

So basically its ok for us and our buddies, just not for those scary Arab types that don't like us much?

As someone mentioned above, the US' complicity in terrorism in S America massively dwarfs anything carried out by Al Quaeda or Hezbollah. That's not a nutty conspiracy theory either, just a matter of historical record.

I dont belive I said it was OK. It is not a black and white situation. I simply posed the question. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Zulu-Eleven - Member

So, you don't think that your repeated support for a well know Anti-Semite is somewhat indicative of your position on middle eastern geopolitics

And now in an absolutely classic "Zulu-Eleven deviation tactic" you want to divert the thread onto the issue of what a former London Mayor did or didn't say, to a pestering journalist from a newspaper which had mounted a hostile campaign against him, and who was doorstepping him ?

Plus, you want to accuse my "position on middle eastern geopolitics" of being based on antisemitism. In other words, you are accusing me of being a racist. That old argument- if you criticise Israel then you must be a racist. Or if you are a Jew who criticises Israel, then you must be a "self-hater".

Grow up Zulu-Eleven.

No, you're absolutely right Ernie - It's all a deviation tactic

I read it in my copy of 'the protocols of the elders of Zion' so it must be true 🙄

you're absolutely right Ernie

Excellent. Let me know how you get on with growing up.

unfitgeezer - Member

I have no more to say as some people are all to quick to blame Israel...

Some people just seem to be aware of the absurdity of suggesting that a country trying to become the second nuclear power in the region could be [i]starting[/i] an arms race.

Since it's all about [i]perception[/i] isn't there a possibility that Israel doesn't have nukes at all and it's all a big rumour in order to scare the neighbours? A bit like having a [i]Beware of the Dog[/i] sign on your gate and owning a Chihuahua. 😆

Actually there is some evidence that Israel has tactical nuclear weapons. The purpose of tactical nuclear weapons isn't to scare anyone - they are designed to be used,.

But the "evidence" could be fabricated/planted? Might that be cheaper than actually making and storing them?

I think you can trust the evidence provided by Mordechai Vanunu.

druidh - Member But the "evidence" could be fabricated/planted?

What like Greenham Common perhaps? Ever wonder how/why people were allowed to camp there, park there cars on the verge, clip through the fences, stage protests over all those years.....and yet stop your car outside a certain Scottish RAF base for 15 seconds during the 1980s and you were immediately moved on (despite no outward sign of surveillance) Wonder which one really had the nukes!?! Worked a treat for the military though. 😉

thm - shoosh! I think they're on to you.