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this had some interesting stuff about our history in the middle east and Churchill's actions to secure the black stuff and help set us on this road
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02gzf9k
From the moment we first drilled for oil, we opened a Pandora's box that changed the world forever. It transformed the way we lived our lives, spawned foreign wars and turned a simple natural resource into the most powerful political weapon the world has ever known. But when exactly did geology turn into such a high-stakes game?
The unnamed anonymous US source was very specific that all 4 malfunctioning missiles landed in Iran. Rural Iran apparently, so quite specific.
So we know there are missing missiles. We know those missiles flew over Iran on the way to their target to avoid Turkey.
It seems entirely plausible to me they'd be in Iran and that America would have monitoring kit to know where they crashed.
Not certain, but plausible.
im absolutely certain the 'mericans are tracking every crusie missile carefully, Im not sure Id trust what they are saying though, they are probably double bluffing the russians about how much they know, and know the info will play differently in different countries
Im not sure Id trust what they are saying though
And you need to have an excellent level of trust when it's an "unnamed anonymous US source" saying it.
Time for America to reveal if it has the 'star wars' weapon or not?
No one has ever "won" a war out there.
Let's pull out and let the Russians get bogged down.
Instead of spending money on bombs let's spend it making renewable energy in this country.
Surely this is all about who owns the energy supplies.
Has no one mentioned these minor details?
1) Syria is a Russian satellite state which explains how the civil war continued for so long, Putin does not like the West meddling in his satellite states (e.g. Ukraine)
2) The west can't go in all guns blazing (like they did in their satellite state Iraq), see point 1 and because their electorates don't want another Iraq/Afghanistan
3) When the Rebel Alliance finally started threatening the evil Empire's Death Star... oops wrong story line 🙂 When anti-Assad rebels started moving west and threatened Russia's only Mediterranean Naval Base Putin reacts by attacking the anti-Assad rebels supported by the West
4) What the West's goal is in Syria I don't have a scooby and I suspect neither does anyone. As removing Assad would be a bit like removing Saddam/Gaddafi and look how that has gone. I suspect you get the leaders you deserve.
According to this cheery website,
That's great!
I have a book at home written in the late 60s which sets down in incredibly cold, academic detail the consequences of different nuclear scenarios in terms of casualties, economic impact and so on. It is one of the most chilling things I've ever read.
Whatever happens, I want it resolved before my kids reach conscription age.....
According to this cheery website, I'm sufficiently far enough away from Mancheser and Leeds to avoid incineration or 3rd degree burns That's assuming there aren't any more strategic targets closer to Todmorden.
That depends on the size of the nuke. If the Russians dropped a 100MT "Tsar Bomba" on Manchester, there wouldn't be much of Todmorden left. People would be sufferring 3rd degree burns in Harrogate!
what that site neglects to feature is the proliferation of nuclear zombies. this is what I'm interested in.
although in the North West, I doubt they'd notice the difference.
Russia's in recession, the global economy incl ours and the US is looking v shaky, Saudi economy has a problem and there's a potential succession crisis on the way.
What would be the best way to take the various populations' eyes off the crises and keep the angry young men occupied instead of rioting?
War can serve many purposes for all concerned...military industrial complex springs to mind - nice bit of economic stimulus...
I don't know the full story of 1929 crash to 1930's Great Depression to WW2 but there's a worrying parallel in the current narrative...
According to this cheery website, I'm sufficiently far enough away from Mancheser and Leeds to avoid incineration or 3rd degree burns
A moderate sized nuke on Lakenheath would leave me unaffected. But the trails in Thetford forest might suffer a bit.
But there would be an awesome new bomb hole, so it wouldn't be all bad.
A moderate sized nuke on Lakenheath would leave me unaffected. But the trails in Thetford forest might suffer a bit.
What tyres for glass trails?
What tyres for glass trails?
I asked myself that very question this morning when the authorities had decided they didn't need to remove the masses of glass from the bike path after a car accident earlier in the week.
****s
What would be the best way to take the various populations' eyes off the crises and keep the angry young men occupied instead of rioting?
Free hookers?
That depends on the size of the nuke. If the Russians dropped a 100MT "Tsar Bomba" on Manchester,
Yeah my optimism was based on them dropping a cuban missile crisis era 2.4MT bomb. I reckon they'd save the 100MT monsters for the major US cities 🙂
The nuclear zombies point is a good one though. Think I might have to go and price up some razor wire and a few shotguns.
bikebouy - Member
Edukator - Troll
I blame Blair.
Me too.
So we've moved on from blaming the Great She-Elephant for everything, then?
I blame the great she elephant!!... 😆
tinybits - Member
Hmm, not sure but as I'm in Russia on business at the end of the month, I'll let you know if troops are massing on the border
Can you update us when you get shot for spying.. 😉
I blame Blair.
Me too.So we've moved on from blaming the Great She-Elephant for everything, then?
I don't think we should ever stop recognising the profound affect on British politics and British society that Prime Ministers who serve several terms have. They set the agenda, steer legislation, establish foreign policies, etc, the consequences of which easily outlive their premiership by many years if not decades.
Thatcher's admirers loudly sing her praises emphasising above all her profound affect on British society, but yet in what can only be described as breathtaking hypocrisy they invariably deny that Thatcher has left any sort of legacy.
Blair on the other hand doesn't seem to have any admirers, despite having won a general election landslide victory, everyone it would appear hates him now, so there isn't that comparable level of hypocrisy.
What Thatcher did was ultimately internal to the country - i.e..on our own citizens confined to our borders.
What Blair did has affected the entire geopolitical world (within constrains obviously) - i.e..every person on the planet
piha - MemberWill we see Xmas? I think so and we'll see next Xmas too. The West knows the stakes are high so will avoid any confrontation with Russia (Obama wants out of ME).
Turkey is the key IMO.
I agree, Turkey is the key to a good Christmas.
What Thatcher did was ultimately internal to the country - i.e..on our own citizens confined to our borders.
What Blair did has affected the entire geopolitical world (within constrains obviously) - i.e..every person on the planet
This.
Blair helped to bring an apocalypse down on a whole region which is still ongoing and can never be undone.
Even if you think Thatcher was a disaster it was on a completely different scale and can mostly be undone if people want to undo it. (Which we seem not to.)
Blair on the other hand doesn't seem to have any admirers, despite having won a general election landslide victory, everyone it would appear hates him now, so there isn't that comparable level of hypocrisy.
I think you have selective hearing. Plenty still use Blair as a role model. Camron for example. His last speech could have been written for or by Blair.
Blair didn't loose an election, even in the middle of the Iraq war. Only a tiny minority actually cared about the war, not enough to cause even a blip in an election. He only really started becoming unpopular after he left office and started his money grubbing second career.
Blair's legacy is equal to Maggy's.
Blair helped to bring an apocalypse down on a whole region which is still ongoing and can never be undone.
I think you'll find the region was in turmoil, long before Blair came along
If you want to blame a british politician, Churchill had a much greater role in creating the problems in the Middle East than Blair could ever have managed
I hope so as we've promised a member of staff we'll honour his Xmas if changes positions. He'll clean us out in a tribunal if the world ends.
I see the champion of reliable news reporting 'The Express' is reporting a Russia jet has been shot down by Turkey
I think you'll find the region was in turmoil, long before Blair came along.
The old testament is witness to this fact.
I think you have selective hearing.
Not at all. Blair's "admirers" are mostly Tories, you even mention one as an example. And as Tories they tend not to defend Blair, for obvious reasons. This is quite different to Thatcher's admirers who are also invariably Tories and are very quick to defend her.
.
I think you'll find the region was in turmoil, long before Blair came along.
Well that's obviously nonsense. The region wasn't in "turmoil" before Blair came along.
Churchill ......blah, blah, blah
ffs
Well that's obviously nonsense. The region wasn't in "turmoil" before Blair came along.
yes ernie it was like a modern day paradise 😉 , do you live in a complete fantasy land?.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_conflicts_in_the_Middle_East
1980–1988 Iran-Iraq war[19][48][j]
Iran
Iraq
Kuwait
1,000,000–1,250,000 casualties
1984–2013 Turkey-PKK conflict
Turkey
Iraqi
Kurdistan
Iraq
30,000–100,000
1986 South Yemen Civil War[50]
South Yemen
5,000–12,000
1986 Egyptian Conscription Riot
[Egypt
107
1986 Damascus bombings
Syria
204
1987 Iranian pilgrim riot (Mecca massacre)
Saudi Arabia
402
1987–1988 ANO Executions
Lebanon
Syria
170
1989–1996 KDPI insurgency (1989–96)
Iran 168-503
1990–1991 Gulf War[36] Iraq
Kuwait
Saudi Arabia 40,000–57,000
1991 uprisings in Iraq
Iraq
50,000–100,000
1992–2000 Muslim Brotherhood terror campaig
Egypt
1,300–2,000
1994 civil war in Yemen[
Yemen
7,000–10,000
1995– Islamic Insurgency in Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia
300
and palestine and israel hows that been?
Blair's domestic policy was OK, and he was an election winning machine. The reason he has no defenders is that the only thing he gets attacked for is two of his wars, and they're indefnsible. In his book even Blair doesn't seriously try to defend the Iraq decision.
Not at all. Blair's "admirers" are mostly Tories, you even mention one as an example. And as Tories they tend not to defend Blair, for obvious reasons. This is quite different to Thatcher's admirers who are also invariably Tories and are very quick to defend her
I see what you're getting at but Maggie influenced Blair and Brown profoundly. Actually that's probably exactly what you're getting at.
She thought New Labour was here greatest achievement after all.
She thought New Labour was her greatest achievement after all.
And she was right imo.
yes ernie it was like a modern day paradise , do you live in a complete fantasy land?.......
Well I certainly don't live in your fantasy world kimbers where Iraq's present "turmoil" is down to Churchill not Blair.
Your ridiculous partisan "everything is the fault of Tory politicians" nonsense is comparable to the similarly ridiculous partisan nonsense that jambalaya spouts.
well despite you refusing to admit that you were wrong trying to make out the middle east wasnt in turmoil b4 blair....
Ill not deny that blair was plain wrong
bush 1 & 2 were far more at fault in setting up the current problems in iraq than blair, Bush wouldve screwed up iraq with or without the UK's contribution, tony was obviously a willing fool in the whole sad affair
blair didnt help the situation at all, but IS for example is part of the wider Sunni, Shia (+kurd) conflict that the west have fueled ever since our Colonial Secretary set about establishing a puppet state out of what the UK had nicked from the ottomans in 1920, coz we wanted all that lovely oil
The region was beset with tribal conflicts long before anyone from Europe became involved. They've been hacking each other to pieces for many many hundreds, if not thousands of years.
If it wasn't for western interests, geologically and geo-politically, there would be little or no reason for anyone to get involved.
As it is, this escalation has been on the cards for quite some time.
tony was obviously a willing fool in the whole sad affairblair didnt help the situation at all
Ah I see so "Tony" was merely a willing fool who didn't help the situation. But you would much rather blame Churchill for the mess that Iraq is experiencing today - Churchill is the one to blame for the fact that large swathes of Iraq are now under the control of murdering psychopaths and the deaths of tens of thousands who have died in the last 10 years.
Well you carry on with your version of why the Middle East is in the mess it now finds itself today, and acting as an apologist for a war criminal who has the blood of tens of thousands on his hands, I suspect that arguing with you is as pointless as arguing with jambalaya.
I suspect that arguing with you is as pointless as arguing with jambalaya.
Why persist then?
IdleJon - Member
tinybits - Member
Hmm, not sure but as I'm in Russia on business at the end of the month, I'll let you know if troops are massing on the border
Can you update us when you get shot for spying..
Not only that, I'll also turn up on a religion thread to prove the afterlife and God debate once and for all.
Right, as you were.