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Will self-determination be taken to the logical conclusion of allowing the Orkney and Shetland islanders to vote separately on what part of the Union, if any, they want to be a part of?
If the article in today's Torygraph is to be believed, they do not want to be governed by Edinburgh. They prefer either (1) the Union or (2) independence themselves. At the very least, they want to extend Salmond's principles further along the curve to say that they should have a much greater portion of oil and gas revenues for themselves.
Why should Salmond be the only politician who is able to use oil wealth to argue for self-determination?
Or maybe, they should rejoin Norway (based on the same historical arguments put forward by the SNP) and they could have the revenue!!
Interesting irony to all of this!!
If the article in today's Torygraph is to be believed
Its not.
there is no significant independence movement on the islands.
should Glasgow get a separate vote? Berwick?
They could set up an 'Arc of Prosperity' with the Falkland Islands 😀
Its not.
Well that's that sorted then!
there is no significant independence movement on the islands.
[i]Not yet[/i]
The british govt will be encouraging the S&O isles to push for this. If the islanders decide that they want a vote, then they should absolutely get one.
Class, 2 mins after posting and TJ's there! 😀
?
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The biggest issue will remain the EU
They will have to go into the referendum without knowing whether or not they'll stay as an EU member, have to re-apply, take the € or stay with the £
The EU have already said they can't make a decision until after any referendum
Too many unknowns IMO - it's going to end up like a Rumsfeld speech
have a much greater portion of oil and gas revenues for themselves.
One day its going to run out.....what will happen then if they stand alone? Be a Golf resort?
Be a Golf resort?
Is it hilly? I may have an idea.....
The value of the oil and gas isn't exactly clear cut either
They'll fall for the Great Windpower Con...
One day its going to run out.....what will happen then if they stand alone?
They're going to put 7 wind turbines in everyone's back garden, and supply the rest of Europe with renewable energy
Oh.... and shortbread. Don't forget the shortbread exports
TandemJeremy - Member
If the article in today's Torygraph is to be believed
Its not.there is no significant independence movement on the islands.
Ah, Sophism isn't dead, phew!!
should Glasgow get a separate vote? Berwick?
Scotland, Cornwall....?
Very convenient for Sturgeon to categorically state that the islanders are, "not a nation" (even though the SNP had previously recognised their right to decide their own future). Hmmmm......
Given that it takes less muscles to smile than it does to frown... is it possible that there is an untapped energy source here?
ha ha ha @ tsy!
They will have to go into the referendum without knowing whether or not they'll ... take the € or stay with the £
As an aside, it would of course be open to an independent Scotland to form its own currency or adopt a foreign currency that is neither the pound nor the Euro. On a practical basis, I doubt that would happen.
That's your problem, right there.teamhurtmore - Member
If the article in today's Torygraph is to be believed,
And to go one better than Braveheart, the Scottish Government are [url= http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/film/disney-s-tourism-tie-up-with-scots-for-new-film-brave-1-2149295 ]promoting[/url] a Disney film
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I think we'll all have to wear government issue "see you jimmy hats" in the future
As an aside, it would of course be open to an independent Scotland to form its own currency or adopt a foreign currency that is neither the pound nor the Euro
I guess that would depend on the terms of any EU deal [possible compulsory €] - which the good folks of Scotland will be unaware of until after the referendum
International law suggests that the Orkneys and Shetlands would be treated as an enclave on the "Scottish" continental shelf and would only have mineral rights over an area some 12 miles out from their coast - i.e. an area which currently contains no oil or gas fields.
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So everyone is wrong about the S&O's oil/gas entitlements then?
I don't think so.
International law suggests that the Orkneys and Shetlands would be treated as an enclave on the "Scottish" continental shelf and would only have mineral rights over an area some 12 miles out from their coast - i.e. an area which currently contains no oil or gas fields
Ah - so Scotland is actually an enclave on the UK continental shelf - it seems they're a bit stuffed.
Thanks for posting that druidh, but not sure about your conclusion. This is one person's interpretation of IL, not IL itself surely?
(page 104?)
thm - law "is" opinion 🙂
The "in my opinion" comment seems to refer to the possibility of extending the O&S rights beyond the minimum in order to safeguard some rights for them and to prevent a dispute with Norway and Denmark. Or have I read it wrong?
International law suggests that the Orkneys and Shetlands would be treated as an enclave on the "Scottish" continental shelf and would only have mineral rights over an area some 12 miles out from their coast
That's not what the article says - it says there are several models which might be applied and that the enclave model wouldn't necessarily be 12 miles. See p.103.
I wouldn't take it too seriously anyway. It's one paper written by a scottish based lawyer with more expertise in religion than in international boundaries.
I wouldn't take it too seriously anyway
Did you actually read it or just google the author's name?
If he read it after I first posted the link then he has some pretty impressive fast reading skills.konabunny - Member
Did you actually read it or just google the author's name?
I'd like to know how oil and gas will support Scotland beyond 20-30 years, to be honest...
[url= http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6233/6996725909_1229b5bca7.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/gingerfox/6996725909/ ]Production Data[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/gingerfox/ ]Ginger F0x[/url], on Flickr
(2011 data only to June)
Kit seems to like female midriffs....... 😀
Kit seems to like female midriffs.......
You're not wrong there 😉
It's the bits above and below he's uncertain about.
You seem to need a yahoo acc to access that graph
jota - you can basically read it from my post - volumes of oil, gas, associated gas and gas condensate produced from the UK North sea from 1976 - 2011, in millions of cubic meters. The trend is downward with only around 20 years worth of production left at current rates. This assumes no significant new discoveries (highly unlikely) and no CO2 enhanced oil recovery (still too expensive).
jota - you can basically read it from my post
Not with my eyes you can't 🙂
anyway, I guess it's much the same detail as in the link I posted earlier
Not with my eyes you can't
Sorry about that 🙁 And yes, the Bloomberg report cites DECC data, from which my graph was drawn.
Well, there will be a lot of money in decommissioning oil fields, so that'll provide some income for a few years, though the work is already under way for some fields. Some fields are having their lives extended and new areas like the deep west of shetland waters are being moved into, so there is some life in oil yet, but not much.
Independance would be a disaster for Scotland and would set our 'poor man of europe' status in stone for generations.
Independance would be a disaster for Scotland and would set our 'poor man of europe' status in stone for generations.
Bollocks.
Bollocks.
I know, its scary innit!
I know, its scary innit!
I find the prospect of independence a whole lot less scary than considering what will happen to Scotland if we're still part of the Union when the oil runs out and we're beholden to a Conservative government in Westminster for handouts...
I've yet to see someone explaining the logic behind "we can't vote for independence because one day the oil will run out". Do these people still live with their mums at 30 because their worried that they might lose their job in 5 years time and not be able to pay their mortgage? I'd never appreciated we had quite so many "wee cowering timorous beasties" in our ranks.
So tell us d_j how Scotland will support itself?
I'd never appreciated we had quite so many "wee cowering timorous beasties" in our ranks.
🙂
Firstly as oil becomes more expensive it will be worth recovering more of the hard to get stuff thats there.
25 years of oil money should be enough to structure a scots economy to create the wealth the country needs
Assuming S&O don't take their 25%?