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Survival of the fittest!
In the case of one of my cats, its survival of the fattest.
The local bird population have nothing to worry about with him, as catching one would involve him leaving the sofa and theres not much chance of that happening
I presume then you’d be fine if my dog shat in your garden then?
If that happened it would be because you'd allowed your dog to roam free unsupervised. By any measure that's a lot more unacceptable than a cat doing so and I'd be much more bothered about your dog from a public safety aspect than where it does it's business. And besides, cat shit is a lot less offensive than dog shit. At least cats try to hide or bury it, where dogs seem to like to do it in the most obvious and open places. Put it this way, I've never seen a cat shit in the middle of a pavement.
If that happened it would be because you’d allowed your dog to roam free unsupervised. By any measure that’s a lot more unacceptable than a cat doing so and I’d be much more bothered about your dog from a public safety aspect than where it does it’s business. And besides, cat shit is a lot less offensive than dog shit. At least cats try to hide or bury it, where dogs seem to like to do it in the most obvious and open places. Put it this way, I’ve never seen a cat shit in the middle of a pavement.
I mean, if you can't see this for the cock-eyed, logical mess that it is, I can't be bothered.
And besides, cat shit is a lot less offensive than dog shit.
Oh bugger off Daz. It is still shit.
Cat shit in the garden is a menace. Far worse than hedgehog, owl or frog shit.
It was worse when the kids were small and got it on them, but it is still pretty unpleasant when you get it on your hands whilst gardening.
One would assume that a) you have a cat and b) couldn't care less where it craps.
And I can’t quite believe I’m saying this, but Cougar man, you’re normally one of the bastions of cool calm logic, but the wild-bird killing/KFC analogy is absolutely nonsense, you must know that.
Why? What's the objection? Unpick it.
The daughter waking to find a sleeping cat on her bed, I guess that could be scary. If it was prowling around and she didn't realise know what it was then that could be terrifying.
The daughter waking to find a dead bird on her bed, that'd freak me the **** out, but that's why I've been a vegetarian all my adult life. Would an omnivore not go "them's good eatin'" and get their kindly gifted pigeon into the frying pan whilst using it as a teaching opportunity to show the child where their chicken nuggets come from?
Or is "wild" the issue? It's OK to kill creatures we've bred specifically to be killed but taking out wild animals is problematic? There's plenty of fish, deer, wild boar, rabbits etc etc that might object to that reasoning. And following this logic presumably it'd be perfectly acceptable to raise dogs and horses solely for the food chain.
Or is it OK when we kill things but problematic when we get a pet which does it? Probably a good job we haven't been breeding hunting dogs for millennia, then.
Or maybe, just maybe, perhaps people squealing about cats decimating local wildlife whilst shoving a lamb bhuna down their gullets are just massive hypocrites.
I was of course being deliberately provocative in drawing a parallel between us - well, most of you lot - eating KFC and a cat eating a bird. But the point was that I wanted people to stop and think. That line is ill-defined as soon as you hold it up to any degree of scrutiny and it will be in different places for different people (and potentially wildly different in different cultures). Your moral code will be different from mine, different from the Muslims mentioned in the article above who believe that cats are holy and dogs are dirty, different from far-flung corners of the globe who happily chow down on rat-on-a-stick (maybe).
I thought it was the lizards? 🤔
The cats killed all the lizards!
Well 650 million each year at least
Cat shit in the garden is a menace. Far worse than hedgehog, owl or frog shit.
My favourite part of looking at the garden in the morning before opening the doors for the kids to head out is playing 'leaf or cat shit?'.
By any measure that’s a lot more unacceptable than a cat doing so and I’d be much more bothered about your dog from a public safety aspect than where it does it’s business.
Indeed. A free-roaming domesticated dog is likely more of a danger to itself than a free-roaming cat is.
And besides, cat shit is a lot less offensive than dog shit.
Less true. You might want to google Toxoplasmosis.
Shit is a waste product, it's unpleasant by nature. You might put horse muck on your roses but I doubt even Gwyneth Paltrow would be bringing out a range of scented candles.
And besides, cat shit is a lot less offensive than dog shit.
But the point is that cats will crap in whatever place they are when they need to go – if that happens to be a neighbour's garden then they will crap there. Our dog only ever craps in our garden (and occasionally at the in-laws) or on walks – where I always pick up. It has never climbed a fence and crapped in a neighbour's garden.
All I know is that I run over dog shit significantly more than I run over cat shit when out on the bike. I don't think I've ever run over cat shit.
Why? What’s the objection? Unpick it.
The objection is that cats are, obviously, predators and when they are let out they do what they do, i.e. predate. In the wild the numbers of predators is limited by the amount of food available, but the cats are going to get food anyway so the prey numbers get absolutely battered without the 'natural' checks and balances.
Pulling the KFC and humans thoughtlessly eating meat thing into it is a false equivalence.
Indeed. A free-roaming domesticated dog is likely more of a danger to itself than a free-roaming cat is.
If I bring my dog on a lead, can it crap in your garden?
At least cats try to hide or bury it,
I was reading about this a little while ago. It's a territorial thing.
Cats will generally bury their poo. They don't want to leave evidence that they've been there, for their own protection from predators. But a dominant cat will use it as a way of going "this is mine." So if you're getting prominent cat poo in your garden there's a good chance that it's there to keep all the other cats out.
I've seen this play out in my own home. We have three indoor cats and three litter trays (the vets recommend n+1 trays, but anyway). It took a while to settle down but once they'd established between themselves whose was whose there was a marked uptick in the degree of burying.
Top tip for stopping another persons cat from crapping on your lawn....
Put some treats down for it.
some sort of primal desire they can’t shake off,
bit like sex, or riding your bike from your car and back to your car again!...
The objection is that cats are, obviously, predators and when they are let out they do what they do, i.e. predate. In the wild the numbers of predators is limited by the amount of food available, but the cats are going to get food anyway so the prey numbers get absolutely battered without the ‘natural’ checks and balances.
Pulling the KFC and humans thoughtlessly eating meat thing into it is a false equivalence.
Alternatively,
"The objection is that humans are, obviously, predators and when they are let out they do what they do, i.e. predate. In the wild the numbers of predators is limited by the amount of food available, but the humans are going to get food anyway so the prey numbers get absolutely battered without the ‘natural’ checks and balances."
False equivalence? Come on, we're the single most effective predator on the planet. Go jump on Facebook and post a meme about vegans, you'll be up to your tits in minutes with overly defensive meat-eaters boasting about it. Nature, teeth, digestive systems, depth perception...
(in any case, the stats reported on this very thread don't back up the 'battering' you're claiming.)
If I bring my dog on a lead, can it crap in your garden?
You wouldn't be the first.
You wouldn’t be the first.
Lucky for you then that you're fine with it then.
Honestly though, internet snipeyness aside, we all have our rationality blindspots, and I genuinely think this is yours.
You might put horse muck on your roses but I doubt even Gwyneth Paltrow would be bringing out a range of scented candles.
I wouldn't want to bet my own money on that.
Cats are ace, its people I hate with a passion
our 3 rescues have a catio, are house cats and get walked on harnesses, they are also prolific hunters of paper ball, hair bobbles and o-rings from my garmin mounts
As a stealth request for photos of other people's cats, this thread has really hit the target.
I'm a bit lost, are we supposed to be feeding our cats KFC now?
Will that prevent them behaving like the ****ers they are?
My cat shits in my garden. Well he buries it sometimes, but when the neighbour's cat shits on the grass, my cat does the same. Shit wars or something. The neighbour's dog also sometimes bursts through the hedge and shits in the garden. But it's an old dog and it looks lost most of the time, so I just walk it back round and feel sorry for it.
Anyway, the dog shit is easy to spot and pick up. The cat shit seems to be a magnet for my mower, whereapon it gets dispersed in a spray fashion.
The main cat action is all about which cat can dominate our little pond. Like some kind of waterhole fight. Except cat fights are long drawn-out staring and caterwauling affairs, sometimes followed by a 10second scuffle.
Anyway, all this cat and dog action is stopping the massive pigeons shitting in the garden. So that's good then.
Something is going to shit in your garden.
Owning pets is unethical. The sheer human arrogance of it.
reeksy
Full Member
I thought it was the lizards? 🤔The cats killed all the lizards!
Well 650 million each year at least
Cats are a major problem in Australia. Isn't it illegal to let them out in some states? Having said that, foxes and rabbits are also an invasive species that they are looking to remove.
Owning pets is unethical. The sheer human arrogance of it.
As has already been pointed out: cats don't have owners, they have staff.
The little sods expect me to deliver a running all-you-can-eat buffet 24/7, and cater their numerous demands for comfort and in return they destroy our furniture
This is still preferable to dog ownership IMHO though, as I don't have to follow them around picking up their shite. They do that in other peoples gardens, obviously 😀
One would assume that a) you have a cat and b) couldn’t care less where it craps.
Three rescue cats. I don't care where they shit as it's my garden or the adjacent fields. The neighbours all have cats and/or dogs (which sometimes shit in my garden) and none of us are bothered so all good. Besides, our garden is managed as a wildlife garden rather than a perfectly manicured RHS show entry so we care even less.
Have you considered astroturf? Nice and clean and nowhere for the cats to shit. You can put some raised beds up with a cage around them. The alternative is enclosing your garden in a big cage of chicken wire to keep the critters out. Problem solved! 🙂
At least cats try to hide or bury it,
Not very hard, if my garden is anything to go by.
Put some welders gloves on and hammer a frozen sausage into the neighbours cat. Problem solved.
Where do we stand on budgerigars?
Honestly though, internet snipeyness aside, we all have our rationality blindspots, and I genuinely think this is yours.
I dunno. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure I know what you're referring to. I just like scratching at assumptions.
Owning pets is unethical. The sheer human arrogance of it.
Good point. I'll take a spade to the necks of our three immediately, it'll be for the best. How do you feel about KFC?
There is no doubt in my mind that if we hadn't adopted the ginger idiot above, she wouldn't have survived.
Where do we stand on budgerigars?
Carefully I suppose. They look squishy.
Not making a whole lot of sense there Daz.
Astroturf makes loads of sense if you want to avoid cat shit. They won't go near it. Anyway, we're looking at this the wrong way. Perhaps the problem isn't cats, perhaps it's gardens? If everyone got rid of their gardens and allowed them to rewild it would more than make up for the wildlife lost to cats and you wouldn't care about the shit.
Having been sat in said (rather lovely) garden of @Harry_the_Spider only last week, if you're imagining manicured lawns then you couldn't be wider of the mark
Astroturf makes loads of sense if you want to avoid cat shit. They won’t go near it.
The previous owners of my house had fake grass put in the back garden, and I'm sorry to say that this is fake news.
I’ve never understood the outrage caused by cats shitting in gardens. Presumably those bothered about this are also outraged at badgers, birds, foxes and other wild animals doing the same?
99.9% of the population are living on something more like a housing estate than country estate and don't have to deal with badgers, and only the occasional suburban fox.
Cat's however will have a loud fight at 3am over who has shitting rights over my raised beds.
Is there a more socially selfish form or pet ownership that cat ownership, specifically those who allow their cats out at night?
I think the problem stems from the selfishness of humans. Domestication of wild animals, mass murder of wildlife and destruction of eco-systems, laying waste to natural resources, breading more of the damn humans until we're left with a dustbowl of a planet. What other type of mammal would behave so inconsiderately and disgracefully. And their constant 'me me me me me' attitude at everyday life and whining about it on the internet. Infuriating.
Why is having kids ok..
They grow up, polute and occasionally kill one and other or start ****y posts on a mtb forum
Why is having kids ok..
Otherwise we'd run out of people to look after all these pets, obviously.
Owning pets is unethical. The sheer human arrogance of it.
In what way?
Because if you can reduce pet ownership down to being unethical as a result of the carbon footprint or ethics of keeping a Labrador alive past it's normal 2-3 year lifetime, then all human existence and everything we create is unethical because it either has a carbon footprint or prolongs ours or others suffering.
Why is having kids ok..
They grow up, polute and occasionally kill one and other or start **** posts on a mtb forum
I saw one having a piss in the street a couple of days ago.
What other type of mammal would behave so inconsiderately and disgracefully.
I've hears that koala bears, despite looking cute are actually right bastards!
I reckon they wouldn't think twice about poisoning a chalk steam with some industrial effluent
They're not even bears!
When my cat starts wanging poo-filled plastic bags into trees I'll start giving a monkeys.
Cats > Dogs.
times eleventy 🙂