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No whinging Don simon - merely asking questions.
I'm sure TJ's solution runs along the lines of tax the rich much more. Whilst I agree with this principle I'd be a little concerned about what would happen to the rich if we did that.
The reason that most CEOs get to where they are is a combination of luck/who they know or just hanging around long enough.
A little bit of an exaggeration, correct in essence but fails on the fact that these people do have something different that makes them stand out.
Most people can kick a ball, yet there are very few Beckhams.
There is something that sets them apart and it's not always knowledge or skill related to their company.
and what has happened to Apple now that the irreplaceable genius has gone?
Too soon to tell 🙂
No whinging Don simon - merely asking questions.
You can start providing solutions instead of complaining then. 15% cut in workforce, just to balance out with the job cuts in the private sector??
Actually, I don't mind how much we pay the top people, so long as we tax them at 100% above about £500,000
I'm sure that a distribution of take home pay that gives the top earners about 25 times more than the bottom earners is reasonably fair.
I'm sure TJ's solution runs along the lines of tax the rich much more. Whilst I agree with this principle I'd be a little concerned about what would happen to the rich if we did that.
Me too. They might not be able to afford to eat caviar every night.
rightplacerighttime - Member
Actually, I don't mind how much we pay the top people, so long as we tax them at 100% above about £500,000I'm sure that a distribution of take home pay that gives the top earners about 25 times more than the bottom earners is reasonably fair.
Yuck. Socialism.
Just as bonus's have led to failing banks they don't work for teachers in New York either :-
"Weighing surveys, interviews and statistics, the study found that the bonus program had no effect on students’ test scores, on grades on the city’s controversial A to F school report cards, or on the way teachers did their jobs.
“We did not find improvements in student achievement at any of the grade levels,” said Julie A. Marsh, the report’s lead researcher and a visiting professor at the University of Southern California. “A lot of the principals and teachers saw the bonuses as a recognition and reward, as icing on the cake. But it’s not necessarily something that motivated them to change.”
or NASHVILLE — "Offering middle-school math teachers bonuses up to $15,000 did not produce gains in student test scores, Vanderbilt University researchers reported Tuesday in what they said was the first scientifically rigorous test of merit pay."
Everyone knows bonuses are at best ineffective and at worst counter productive but given that those who chose to award bonuses get bonuses then the destructive cycle continues
Now that we are all in the mood for bonuses...
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16748912 ]let's go spend it...[/url]
I don't need a bonus to motivate me nor was it any part of my reason to accept my current job, given I rarely get even a 4 figure bonus though it's an order of magnitude different to banking bonuses.
I support private sector bonuses, they're not really about motivating but rewarding the employees when a company does well. We only get a bonus if the company globally meets it's target as well as we meet our regional targets, my part of the pot also depends on my performance review. I just view it as helping me get out of any Christmas spending hole I've dug myself into (15 years ago it was a 10% flat bonus, unfortunately that's no longer the case so I don't treat it as part of my salary).
Banking bonuses do need addressing though as they encourage risk taking beyond what you'd do if you didn't have the potential reward and given the punishment for failure is small (at worst a P45 assuming you haven't done a Nick Leeson) there's basically no point playing it safe (with other people's money). It's like walking into a casino and being told the worst outcome you can have is to break-even, you may as well bet £100 a hand rather than the £1 a hand you would do otherwise.
but the public sector do not
Just so you know - the Civil Service have bonuses. I'd hate for you to bang on about something when you haven't quite got all of the facts straight. 😐
Tootall at what grades?
Not Just the Civil Serpents
The NHS do bonuses too...
[Jim Bowen][url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16748912 ]Let's look at what he could have done...[/url][/Jim Bowen]
Lothian and Borders Police do bonuses. Any other police authorities do the same?
The Council-owned organisation "in charge" of the Edinburgh Tram network paid out bonuses too.
Just so you know - the Civil Service have bonuses.
What, £1million??
The NHS do bonuses too...
What, £1 MILLION??
Lothian and Borders Police do bonuses.
WHAT *£1 MILLION?????***
Never have I seen such a concerted effort to willfully miss the point.
Comparing Public Sector pay conditions with private sector is by the very fact missing the point.
Public sector is about starting off with a pot of cash and hopefully not overspending by the end of the year. Whilst private sector you start off with nothing and generate as much as you can.
So - where does a bonus payment come from - someone else losing out?LHS - Member
Public sector is about starting off with a pot of cash and hopefully not overspending by the end of the year.
RBS - 80 odd % owned by the state IIRC?
Just makes me laugh - teachers and nurses "think yourselves lucky you have a job" Never mind the cuts in take home and deferred benefits. Apparently thats all the motivation they need to give of their best
Banker - "here - have this large sack of cash to motivate you as you will not do your job properly without it"
2 🙄 🙄
So, you haven't actually read the thread then TJ? Shame as you try so hard to be intelligent.
Just makes me [s]laugh[/s] jealous - teachers and nurses "think yourselves lucky you have a job" Never mind the cuts in take home and deferred benefits. Apparently thats all the motivation they need to give of their bestBanker - "here - have this large sack of cash to motivate you as you will not do your job properly without it"
FTFY
Jealous? Nope - not my style.
It just amuses me the complete lack of any rational reason why bonuses are the right way for one group but not another.
Now the personal attacks start as the paucity of the argument for bonuses is shown up
It just amuses me the complete lack of any rational reason why bonuses are the right way for one group but not another.
And their lies your problem. But, probably not worth discussing any further as I get the impression that you don't want to understand.
Yes LHS - thats your problem.
No one has made any sort of rational case for bonuses being needed for one group but not for another.
Now the personal attacks start as the paucity of the argument for bonuses is shown up
where are these attacks TJ?
No one has made any sort of rational case for bonuses being needed for one group but not for another.
You are aware that people respond to different motivations, aren't you?
[url= http://www.inc.com/guides/hr/20776.html ]
[/url]Unfortunately, motivating people is far from an exact science. There's no secret formula, no set calculation, no work sheet to fill out. In fact, motivation can be as individual as the employees who work for you. One employee may be motivated only by money. Another may appreciate personal recognition for a job well done. Still another may work harder if she has equity in the business.
No one has made any sort of rational case for bonuses being needed for one group but not for another.
Plenty of people have explained this to you but you are unwilling to listen, and I generally think you will always be unwilling to listen as you are pre-dispositioned to loath anything related to the private sector. No criticism, we are just all wired up differently.
No criticism, we are just all wired up differently.
And please don't behave like a spoilt child by trying to call any criticism any form of personal attack, it's a bit of an insult to our collective intelligences, or follow your convictions and report the offending posts.
Really LHS - where - cos there is no rational explanation this thread.
Go on - just for my amusement explain it again.
Teh question is in two parts:
Why do teachers not need bonuses to motivate them to do their best at work whereas bankers need bonuses to motivate then to do their best?
Why is it acceptable for bankers to not perform at their best for their basic salary but for teachers it is not?
If you are for introducing performance driven pay across the public sector I am all for it.
Are you?
TandemJeremy, from what I can see in the link above - different people have different motivatons. I understand that teachers are not just motivated by money. There are other people who are motivated by money.Some people are motivated by power others by fame.
I think it has been explained quite clearly and simply so even a thick git like me can understand.
And why do unions reject performance related pay awards for teachers so they can't be incentivised like bankers?
Why do teachers not need bonuses to motivate them to do their best at work whereas bankers need bonuses to motivate then to do their best?Why is it acceptable for bankers to not perform at their best for their basic salary but for teachers it is not?
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[/img]You're taking the pi55 now, aren't you TJ, even you aren't that obtuse.
Don - care to make an attempt at answering the questions or do you simply make the personal attacks?
Why are you always banging on about personal attacks TJ? Argue your point or dont. You were shouting racism at me last week which was utter garbage as well.
Be a grown up for goodness sake.
Don - care to make an attempt at answering the questions or do you simply make the personal attacks?
When you answer my question, what personal attacks? Laughing because you choose to ignore stuff that doesn't fit with your ideas. Re read the thread, you'll find the answers in there. Turn of the killfile first as maybe you will have missed something.
Bless you sweetheart.
Mcboo -Is that intentional irony?
TJ - I've already pointed out that there has been clear efforts to try and introduce a bonus scheme for teachers.
The headmasters are for it
The Government is for it
I'd be happy to put money that the parents are for it
Even the Teachers are for it
Who's against it?
Your mates in the union, thats who!
Wonder why 🙄
Don simon.
don simon - Shame as you try so hard to be intelligent.
LHS - MemberJust makes me [s]laugh[/s] jealousdon simon - Membereven you aren't that obtuse.
don simon - Bless you sweetheart.mcbooBe a grown up for goodness sake.
don simonSome people don't have the ability to see it like that though.
and so on - and still no answer to the question.
Mcboo -Is that intentional irony?
You have now reached to point where you can not add anything positive to the thread except trying to wind people up. Please re-read and try to learn something, you'd be surprised.
You have simply sat there trolling and asking questions without proposing solutions, dismiss anything constructive said by anyone else and when you run out of destructive argument cry the [i]I'm being bullied [/i] card. Grow up hombre if you want people to respect you. If you think that those are personal attacks, best you stop calling people [i]fool[/i] then and learn to MTFU.
Out.
Because the unions object to performance related pay.
i'm not gunna read the thread, but its got enough pages for me to assume this will apply somehow:
[img] 
[/img]
Don Simon - I have read the thread. No one has proposed a rational answer to the questions I have posed. If they have please quote them
I amm not crying I am being bullied - I am laughing at they way people like yo resort to insults when they have no argument left.
A brief synopsis philc.
[img] 
[/img]
It just goes round in circles, sometimes a different circle but nonetheless always in circles that will never end.
don simon best you stop calling people [i]fool[/i] then
Please post a quote where I called someone "fool" the name calling is all from you
I take it you are unable to answer the questions I asked?