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I’m never likely to vote Tory. Their policies of ‘look after yourself’, ‘I’m alright Jack’ austerity will/have already impacted my life negatively. Personally I can perfectly well afford all the things they think the government should not pay for, but I don’t like walking past beggars and the homeless whenever I go into town, I don’t like knowing that millions of people are living in cold, mouldy, sub-standard accommodation, I don’t like knowing that we are missing out on huge amounts of talent because if you are poor you can’t afford a decent education, I don’t like having to give thousands every year to food banks because millions in the UK live in poverty. The flip side of that is that if you vote Tory it implies, in my mind at least, you are fine with all those things, because they are all the direct result of the policies you chose to vote for. Tory voters, you own that.
This ^^^^^^^^
Very much this.
Hmm interesting responses. Especially about the working class male feeling 'weak' by getting 'help' through voting Labour, totally flying in the face that the rich would never vote against their own interests and spend vast amounts on having people elected that give them all the help they can take.
The ghost of Jeremy Corbyn still seems to haunt any political thread. As someone who never voted, but voted for his manifesto (and will probably not vote for a mainstream party again), I am rather disillusioned with our 'democracy'. For once, I saw a manifesto that promised to solve many of the ills of modern Britain: reverse the abject failure of privatisation, to propose land reform (and take it away from a ruling class that has lorded over us for almost a thousand years, having stolen it from us in the first place), to acknowledge the climate emergency and build a sustainable Britain, etc. etc. To see every single media institution, form the Mail to the BBC to the Guardian, undertake arguably the most spectacular defamation of character in the history of British politics, followed by the right of Labour party openly declare they'd rather see the Tories take power than the democratically elected leader of the Labour Party, well, let's just say it was rather disappointing.
For me, a good anecdote of the English working class is this: I was once on a train - the train was absolutely packed. No seats anywhere at all. Every stop the more people pushed into the carriages. At one stop, 3 women got on. They had tickets but the tickets were double-booked. Once they realised that, they complained loudly about it for a good twenty minutes - 'we've paid for these tickets', 'a bloody disgrace', 'this countries awful', 'we're going to have to stand all the way to Leeds' etc. A young french couple, seeing their distress, kindly offered to give them their seats. To which the women replied' no you're alright'.
That to me sums up this country up politically.
Also if no one voted Tory we would have a left leaning social state a sort of Putin light
You need 2 diametrically opposed ideals for a sensible middle ground but as I've said before modern news and the way we consume information has now rendered it into sound bite policies and political decisions.
Each "bite" designed to appeal the far fringe of the party whilst not alienating the more center of their demographic. Hence no centre leaders jeremy n bojo.
Hopefully starmer and who ever supersedes bojo are less on the fringes of normal.
Politics isn't binary.
And if someone votes Tory they're not a ****. This is soundbite trolling
Theres been some exceptional threads on STW in the past.
This is not one of them.
And if someone votes Tory they’re not a ****
We had a houseparty and asked a Tory to leave because some of us had disabled siblings who had their mobility allowance taken away by the filthy rich privileged Toffs Cameron and Osbourne.
Well done.
I'm sure that helped change his views. Give your self a round of applause.
Her.
No one who steals money of a disabled person is welcome at our house. Sorry about that.
disabled siblings who had their mobility allowance taken away by the filthy rich privileged Toffs
Always embarasses me that MrsMC, who has a much better job than me, had her allowance increased when hers was reviewed under that scheme. She appears to be the only one in the country.
Also if no one voted Tory we would have a left leaning social state a sort of Putin light
Not sure Putin is the right example to use there, if anything the goal of the tory supporting authoritarians is to turn the country into putin style state.
We had a houseparty and asked a Tory to leave because some of us had disabled siblings who had their mobility allowance taken away by the filthy rich privileged Toffs Cameron and Osbourne.
MP, conservative party member, or just someone who voted conservative?
Same with Brexit
Voted for Brexit = thick, racist scum
No, just living off of faith.
Same with Brexit
Voted for Brexit = thick, racist scum
Are we still hiding behind this straw-man lie four years after the referendum? There was a two thousand page thread about it, do you really need it explaining and debunking again?
And if someone votes Tory they’re not a ****. This is soundbite trolling
Theres been some exceptional threads on STW in the past.
This is not one of them.
I'm not proud of my current views.
Hate is not an emotion I am usually happy to entertain.
However.
Appeasement hasn't worked.
Being reasonable has failed.
Facts are ignored.
The concept of truth and accountability in politics is history.
I am no longer prepared to be reasonable to people who vote Tory.
Mainly because of policies deliberately targetting the disabled and the most vulnerable members of society.
People have died because of this.
If you voted Tory, you are responsible for those deaths.
You are responsible for that suffering.
The underfunding of the NHS, the way C19 has been handled and the Cummings affair have pushed me over the edge.
No more appeasement.
No more trying to be reasonable.
Defining evil is not easy.
But it's hard to argue that lining your own pockets whilst watching others suffer and die comes close.
And fundamentally, that's what Tory voters have done.
And that is why, at the moment, I hate them.
Thanks for listening.
Duncancallum: Think what you want as we are still allowed opinions but soundbite trolling?, nope I’m perfectly entitled to call a Tory whatever I consider fair, whether that’s face to face or on a forum
If steptoe had stood down and let Keir take over before the election things may have been different, he did not and got their arse handed to them
The left wing approach can end up costing lots of money and tax, and being very inefficient.
And yet you look at the cost of the US (right wing) and UK (left wing) health services and the stats are totally unambiguous, the socialist model is far more efficient in terms of cost per person or per operation.
We had a houseparty and asked a Tory to leave because some of us had disabled siblings who had their mobility allowance taken away by the filthy rich privileged Toffs Cameron and Osbourne.
That's nothing, I've been at parties in the past where anyone who had a job was seen as a corporate sellout or a collaborator with the fascist state 🙂
And yet you look at the cost of the US (right wing) and UK (left wing) health services and the stats are totally unambiguous, the socialist model is far more efficient in terms of cost per person or per operation.
Are we allowed to laugh about these things?
Are we still hiding behind this straw-man lie four years after the referendum? There was a two thousand page thread about it, do you really need it explaining and debunking again?
I'm not sure what you're saying. I've been called a thick racist for voting for brexit. Maybe I'm confusing this (slightly more rational) forum with some of the idiots encountered on Facebook. Apologies if so. I'm not reading the brexit thread again
Appeasement hasn’t worked.
Being reasonable has failed.
Facts are ignored.
The concept of truth and accountability in politics is history.I am no longer prepared to be reasonable to people who vote Tory.
Mainly because of policies deliberately targetting the disabled and the most vulnerable members of society.
People have died because of this.
If you voted Tory, you are responsible for those deaths.
You are responsible for that suffering.The underfunding of the NHS, the way C19 has been handled and the Cummings affair have pushed me over the edge.
No more appeasement.
No more trying to be reasonable.Defining evil is not easy.
But it’s hard to argue that lining your own pockets whilst watching others suffer and die comes close.
And fundamentally, that’s what Tory voters have done.And that is why, at the moment, I hate them.
Wow
Perfectly true tho
Tories and their voters have blood on their hands from policies that impoverished people by design
I’ve been called a thick racist for voting for brexit
That is unfair as Brexiters are not necessarily both thick and racist, they could be just one of those things.
But surely that could be said for all the voters of both parties because I bet lives have been lost due to decisions from all governments.
Tories and their voters have blood on their hands from policies that impoverished people by design
Ermmmmm, given that UK politics is a 2 party system are you saying that everyone that votes Labour also supported the Iraq war? Is every lefty as complicit in the abuses at Abu Ghraib as every Tory is complicit in police tactics during the miners strike?
Or is it not possible to vote for a party based on supporting the broad brush strokes of their manifesto and ideology rather than nuances and poorly implemented parts?
Ermmmmm, given that UK politics is a 2 party system are you saying that everyone that votes Labour also supported the Iraq war?
AFAIK invading Iraq wasn't in their manifesto - I might be wrong though as I didn't read it.
Wow
not really. They tories are ****s
May not have been in their Manifesto it was something that Labour chose to do so a per the rest of this thread that tarring by assocation then it would be correct to assume that you do also have blood on your hands. Although not it was the Tories that set it up, I think it was Tony Blair that massively increased the PFI in the NHS. Whether that was for different reasons or not I believe all parties have made errors but I dont believe that either side of voters actually goes out with the purpose to deliberately put others in the positions mentioned above. I maybe naive though so apologies if so
AFAIK invading Iraq wasn’t in their manifesto – I might be wrong though as I didn’t read it.
Neither was violence against miners in the Tory's.
My point is that there are plenty of ideological reasons people vote one way or the other that aren't implying support for any particular policy.
If you wanted to you could draw up a really long list of actions/inaction by any party that paint them in a poor light.
not really. They tories are ****
Either I'm lacking imagination or there's no 4 letter word that makes that sentence syntactically correct.
Or should we just blame Thatcher for that too?
I can understand why folks in the past voted Tory in a broad brush sense. Personal responsibility, retention of personal or family generated wealth, social conservatism etc. Never appealed to me but I could see how it appealed to some.
However, what we have now appears to be a nasty, brutish and narrow sect making no pretence of governing by consensus. There's also a shocking lack of accountability. I'm genuinely worried about where that is going to lead.
I agree with Rustyspanner. Reasonableness is being treated as weakness. Ignorance has been made a virtue. In my "bubble" people are beginning to feel estranged from the state they live in.
I agree with that and after what has happened over the last few months I would imagine most people feel estranged from the state. I think especially the last week or so. I normally take people on face value so what been happening has definitely made me think about my future decisions.
I’m lacking
The swear filter changes everything to 4x *'s
****ing
****ing
mother****er
My mum votes Tory. She told me that she thought that the government were doing a good job with Covid. My dad, who also votes Tory, nearly choked when he heard her say this then went off on one calling them "self serving Pricks". Yet he still voted for them. I'm sure that they both clapped for the NHS that they clearly want privatising, They vote Tory because of industrial unrest in the 1970s. In-laws don't trust Labour because of the 70s too, but they vote Green.
Other relatives of mine vote Tory because the think there are too many "darkies" in the country.
I never have and probably never will vote Tory.
Either I’m lacking imagination or there’s no 4 letter word that makes that sentence syntactically correct.
Evil?
Lazy?
Nobs?
Posh?
Gits?
It appears you lack a degree of imagination
It appears you lack a degree of imagination
Not as lacking as the capital letters and use of they rather than the or those.
I opted for vile.
and use of they rather than the or those.
Where i'm from, they is often used interchangeably with those. In the vernacular of course.
"They Tories are *" scans perfectly well in Glasgow, just as "Them Tories are *" would in London.
Of course, we all know that it's correct to say that "Those Tories are ****"
And fundamentally, that’s what Tory voters have done.
And that is why, at the moment, I hate them.
You are expecting them to be rational. People are not. People are hugely irrational, on the whole.
If you introduced someone to a homeless person, and then offered them the chance to put them in a box and let them starve to death, most people would not do it. The issue is that people do not make a connection between the people they read about or see on the street and actual human beings. They are not being callous and nasty deliberately, they are just not bothering to think about it. MOST people do not think too much about things they cannot control or that are truly upsetting - which is why we need stuff like holocaust museums.
The way most people vote, if they do so at all, is simply a reaction to the gossip that they're hearing (which includes a lot of media output). It's just a big soap opera with its baddies and goodies. They do not link this with actual people's suffering. That's why they say things like 'ah they're all the same aren't they?' No, they are absolutely totally not the same, not in the least.
I do not think most people know what the party ideologies actually are, nor do they understand what they mean.
I’m not sure what you’re saying. I’ve been called a thick racist for voting for brexit. Maybe I’m confusing this (slightly more rational) forum with some of the idiots encountered on Facebook. Apologies if so. I’m not reading the brexit thread again
Are all brexit voters thick and / or racist? Obviously not, though there are direct correlations.
The lower your educational standard, the more likely you were to vote for brexit (voter age was the other primary demographic). Immigration concerns was the number one reason cited for voting in favour of it. This isn't pejorative, it's a simple statement of fact, you can look it up.
Turning that around, are all the thick racists all brexit supporters? Probably. If someone is the sort of person who would say something like "why don't you just piss off back where you came from?" to someone else's actual face, I'd wager good money that the likelihood of them being pro-brexit would be vanishingly close to 100%.
Are the remoaners claiming that the brexies are all thick racists? This is the lie part because no, we aren't. Or rather, a few individuals might be, but they're a small minority and not representative of the whole. It's a straw man, it's like complaining that Muslims are suicide bombers.
Do the brexies like to claim at every opportunity that they're being called names in order to demonstrate how hard done to they are? Hell yes. Would you care to compare what you've been called, and how often, with what I've been called in the last four years? It'll be a long list and most of it wouldn't get past the swear filter. If you want to see true vitriol and hatred on a grand scale you just need to go spend ten minutes reading your bedfellows' bilious output on the Leave.EU Facebook group or indeed anywhere else that's carried unmoderated political discourse, it'll quickly put the notion of someone calling racists racists into perspective.
If you wanted to you could draw up a really long list of actions/inaction by any party that paint them in a poor light.
Yep. There's plenty of times I've heard variations of "oh, I could never vote for Labour because of the Iraq war." The thing is, that was almost 20 years ago and the damage the Tories are inflicting is happening right now. One of those things is slightly more pressing than the other, we cannot change the past but we can influence the future.
Because, how far do you go back? Tony Blair resigned in 2007. You'd be hard pressed to find any politician - or indeed, any human - who never made mistakes. Churchill wasn't the saint history remembers him as, he could be a right bastard. Christ, Ed Milliband got pilloried for eating a bacon butty incorrectly.
The swear filter changes everything to 4x *’s
Not everything.
The way most people vote, if they do so at all, is simply a reaction to the gossip that they’re hearing (which includes a lot of media output).
I think inertia plays a big part here too. People vote in a particular way because they always have. People vote Labour or Tory because they are Labour / Tory voters. The political discourse you get on here and elsewhere is between people who are actively choosing to participate in it. We're back to that unrepresentative minority concept again, most people simply don't care sufficiently to look into it.
We saw this with brexit also. At the time of the referendum very few people on either side of the debate really understood the ramifications of it (despite retconned claims to the contrary from some quarters). Since then a lot more information has come to light. So we've got the vocal remainers on one side and the vocal leavers on the other, both intransigent because both 'know' that they're right, but in the middle you've got the majority of the populace going "meh, so if I put a cross in this box it'll all go away, right?" They've had four years to Learn Some Things and yet they simply cannot be bothered, they just don't care.
I’ve been called a thick racist for voting for brexit.
It is a pretty common things to say on this site, certainly in the generality. It certainly was on the Brexit thread and I don't recall any Brexiteers complaining about it in the last year or so, because there were bugger all of them on that thread.
As far as the obvious unmoderated abuse of Tories on here, first I am not a huge fan of extensive moderation, certainly wouldn't report posts, I find it useful for people's bigotry to be out in the open. Anyway, remember what the Blessed Margaret said, if they are attacking you, you are winning the argument. The last four elections results would seem to bear this out.
Holding a different viewpoint to you makes me no more of a "bigot" than voting for Brexit makes you a thick racist.
I agree that dismissing people with prejorative labels has done very little to get us out of this mess. People on the remain side need to start listening to Brexit voters to understand why they did what they did. No one side has a monopoly on hurt.
People on the remain side need to start listening to Brexit voters to understand why they did what they did
We tried that. Didn't work. They either go quiet or get angry and then change the subject.
In any case, this is a four year old 2000-page conversation. There is no reason for them to do what they did to which "brexit" is the answer. Someone voted for brexit because they don't like our immigration policy, fine, let's fix our immigration policy. We can do that unilaterally by parliamentary decree but brexit won't achieve it.
As far as the obvious unmoderated abuse of Tories on here
For your answer to this I refer you to my reply earlier in this thread in response to the previous time this baseless accusation was raised.
Christ, Ed Milliband got pilloried for eating a bacon butty incorrectly.
Now be fair, he ****ing mullered that butty.
Regarding the Iraq war , it’s worth reminding anybody citing that as a reason that only 2 conservatives voted against it 84 Labour mps voted against it , most of the next conservative government voted for it.
Holding a different viewpoint to you makes me no more of a “bigot” than voting for Brexit makes you a thick racist.
Indeed it doesn't, but being intolerant of people with different viewpoints could well do though.
For your answer to this I refer you to my reply earlier in this thread in response to the previous time this baseless accusation was raised.
I already had, it didn't accord with what I've witnessed over the years on here which was the basis for my comment - which also means it wasn't baseless.
I honestly think that Labour (the very top that control the party) did not want to win the last election hence leaving vote haemmoraging Corbyn in charge. I think most realise Brexit is going to be a shambles so quite happy for the tories to own it. Also seeing some comments regarding Starmer not putting the boot in regards Cummings etc well they are probably sticking to the old phrase of 'if you give someone enough rope'
As in "if you give someone enough rope they'll have enough to kill off a large number of the population"?