[Closed] Why are Scottish and Welsh folk so patriotic ?

Didn't the British also bring torture, genocide, concentration camps, legalised rapes, murder, starvation and a whole other host of down right naughty things under the flag of 'We are superior'

(and that was even after WW2)

As Scotland/Northen Ireland started out on a separate continent (Laurentia) to England/Wales (Avalonia), separated by the Iapetus Ocean, perhaps the differences in people are explained by the magnetic orientation in the rocks

perhaps the differences in people is explained by the magnetic orientation in the rock

Didn't the British also bring torture, genocide, concentration camps, legalised rapes, murder, starvation and a whole other host of down right naughty things under the flag of 'We are superior'

Yes - we were committing those crimes in Kenya in the 1950s. Yet the myth of the benign, civilising empire persists.

Thanks Mikey - does that mean that if wear a magnetic bracelet of the correct orientation I can become Welsh/Scottish?

Yep! You can become any nationality you want, as long as you wear the appropriate, magnetised bracelet 😆

Molgrips, that beating thing for using the local language was still going on in the Highlands at the start of the 1970s, as I can vouch from personal experience.
Anyone overheard using the gaelic at the village school I attended was belted; a policy introduced by English incomers at the council's Education department and enforced by an English incomer headmaster. English was the language of the educated upper classes and only village peasants used the old tongue. It took a long time to reverse that policy. Oppression has been pursued in so many ways.

English was the language of the educated upper classes and only village peasants used the old tongue. It took a long time to reverse that policy

Yes - we were committing those crimes in Kenya in the 1950s. Yet the myth of the benign, civilising empire persists.

Is this 'we' the Welsh, or 'we' the British?

thinking of changing my username to ‘BlightySmith’ or ‘SouthernSoftie’ might help with my sense of identity. or do i have be a premium member to do that? just askin like.

Is this the right time to point out the the English (as in Anglo-Saxon) aren't actually British (and should be deported back to Germany as the offspring of illegal immigrants that they are 😉 ), whereas the Welsh and southern Scots (and northern English I think) are Britons / British.

Stop worrying about other people and what their forefathers did to your forefathers and be yourself and who you want to be.
Countries are good for picking sporting terms and for creating economic blocks and providing services that can be used for the benefit of their citizens. Beyond that, not much use.

By the way can someone remind the right wingers that there were Ethiopians in 'England' before there were English - Abyssinian legions on Hadrian's Wall. No point to that just amusing - to me if no one else.

Is this 'we' the Welsh, or 'we' the British?

I'm pretty sure that there wasn't a Welsh empire.

Stop worrying about other people and what their forefathers did to your forefathers and be yourself and who you want to be.

'xactly.

Stop worrying about other people and what their forefathers did to your forefathers and be yourself and who you want to be.

I accept you as Welsh and patriotic.

You do realise better options are available?

The bicycle, the pneumatic tyre, penicillin, the telephone, TV, modern capitalism, the postage stamp... Ok we might have messed up on a few.

I'm Welsh and patriotic, unfortunately some need that I have to justify this.

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[quote=ads678 spake unto the masses, saying]The bitterness is astounding. Is it something in the water?

Probably - all the decent stuff is piped to Manchester. The poor dears only have puddles left over.

Is this the right time to point out the the English (as in Anglo-Saxon) aren't actually British (and should be deported back to Germany as the offspring of illegal immigrants that they are ), whereas the Welsh and southern Scots (and northern English I think) are Britons / British.

CBA reading the whole thread but only two pages in and there was already some pretty lame Scottish 'we're better than you/more liked than you' stuff going on. 🙁

I'm British, of mostly Welsh/Irish origin and have lots of family who either live in or come from Scotland. However you want to dress it up, being patriotic is always about saying 'we're better than that other lot over there' in some way. It's just 'cool' to be patriotic in Scotland and Wales whereas it isn't in England.

In some ways it's sad because we have partly lost our identity as a result. Mind you at least we don't base our identity on a load of supposed traditions that were actually made up by the Victorians. 😉

DaRC_L - Member
Check out Stephen Oppenheimer "Origins of the British" the 'Saxons' may well have been here for much longer (or maybe not).
The South Eastern Scots are mostly 'Sassenachs' (from memory I think that includes you Edinburgh folk).
The South Western Scots are Irish who could swim.
The Scousers are Vikings who could swim from Ireland.
The Western Isles/Shetland/Orkney are Norwegians.
Quite a few of the southern Welsh are Flandrians (may explain G's success) whilst some of the Northern Welsh are Spanish.
All you Northerners are Vikings too...
Which leaves Cornwall and Wessex (look at the history of Wessex king's names which suggest Anglo-Saxonised British names) as the true British.

I take that as not from Middle east or north Africa or Asia then? 😆

Didn't the British also bring torture, genocide, concentration camps, legalised rapes, murder, starvation and a whole other host of down right naughty things under the flag of 'We are superior'

Or the good old days as it's known 😉

being patriotic is always about saying 'we're better than that other lot over there' in some way

1745 and the death of Highland cultue? Blame a Scottish dynasty and their repeated attempt to seize the crown of a country that no longer wanted them. If it hadn’t been for Bonny Prince ****ing Charlie the Highland Scots would have been fine

True. The thing we tend to forget in Scotland is that this period of history wasn't about Scotland vs England. It was more about Protestant vs Catholic and the various strands of regal family fighting it for power were ultimately all offspring of James VI and I.

The problem with patriotism and sense of identity based on historical headlines is that the full story is rarely so clear cut. Like Rangers fans lauding King Billy's Irish adventures but launching abuse at the English King behind the events which led to the Glencoe massacre.

Each of the home nations has plenty to be proud about without needing to denigrate its neighbours.

No, that's nationalism.

Two sides of the same coin.

Two sides of the same coin.

I see no problem in being proud of who you are like being patriotic, nationalistic whatever "tic" or "ism" there are.

They want it then come and get it but never let them take it easy.

Fight! Fight! Fight! The winner makes the rules! No two ways about that.

Again, no it's not.
Nationalism is putting others down to make yourself feel good.
Patriotism is feeling good about yourself and not giving two hoots about anyone else.

Trying to pretend there isn't a fairly massive crossover between the two is just silly.

Trying to pretend there isn't a fairly massive crossover between the two is just silly.

So we're all allowed to be patriotic regardless of histories atrocities. It's all just a bit of friendly banter over an imaginary line and we all love each other really then?

Excellent!! I love being British. 😀

captainsasquatch - Member
Insulting or denegrating your neighbours under the banner of nationalism is not acceptable. A huge difference between the two.

Fight!

The left fight. The right should fight too.

Everyone fights!

Just like our forefathers ... 🙄

Winner set the rules. Simple.

Only the uneducated get confused between definitions, definitions are clear.

What's that if not a cheap dig?

Nothing wrong with being patriotic as many have said, it's harmless afterall.

I disagree.

Insulting or denegrating your neighbours under the banner of nationalism is not acceptable. A huge difference between the two.

So this harmless patriotism, when people are being proud of where they are from, their traditions, culture etc - what are they comparing against? Nothing?

So we're all aloud to be patriotic regardless of histories atrocities.

I doubt you'll find any country which hasn't got skeletons in their closet....

So this harmless patriotism, when people are being proud of where they are from, their traditions, culture etc - what are they comparing against? Nothing?

Except that people obviously do, all the time, as we can see even just from this thread.

I was pretty obviously making the point that it's impossible for people to do that in isolation. You may disagree, but you could try doing it without being patronising and facetious.

I doubt you'll find any country which hasn't got skeletons in their closet....

I'm not looking for them. I think we should stop looking for them and just get on with it. Pointless living in the past, we can't change that.

I'm all for patriotism, but the bitching is really boring.

OK, so fifth post in, is this patriotism, nationalism, or a bit of both?

Scotland is awesome. Being Scottish is totes amazeballs. Despite our lighthearted internal squabbles and differences we're all Scottish together. All the time, not just when the football is on.

English people don't understand because they're all too busy looking down on their regional English neighbours. Scousers hate the Mancs. Geordies hate Mackems. Yorkshiremen hate everyone. Everyone hates Londoners.

And that's the difference between nationalism and patriotism. I'm proud and patriotic about being Welsh, it doesn't make the Dutch, Germans, Australians, Indians, Americans, Brasilians, etc crap. Those that do compare are being nationalistic and i can't make the term patriotic fit that definition, no matter hard I try. It's simply semantics.

Again, no it's not.
Nationalism is putting others down to make yourself feel good.
Patriotism is feeling good about yourself and not giving two hoots about anyone else.

As grum is hinting at, this suggest that the thread title may need editing perhaps?

I'm proud and patriotic about being Welsh, it doesn't make the Dutch, Germans, Australians, Indians, Americans, Brasilians, etc crap

What about the English? Go on, say you like the English as well.... 😉

OK, so fifth post in, is this patriotism, nationalism, or a bit of both?

Scotland is awesome. Being Scottish is totes amazeballs. Despite our lighthearted internal squabbles and differences we're all Scottish together. All the time, not just when the football is on.

English people don't understand because they're all too busy looking down on their regional English neighbours. Scousers hate the Mancs. Geordies hate Mackems. Yorkshiremen hate everyone. Everyone hates Londoners.

I feel reasonably qualified to identify what this is.

It's slightly exaggerated sterotyping for comic effect basically trying to poke fun at our English neighbours who let an overabundance of self loathing get in the way of a bit of entirely justifiable national pride.
Lighten up England. Stop Hating yourself quite so much and be proud of the good stuff.
For the record, I think most of England is pretty awesome too and choose it as my holiday destination every year.

Just not Slough.... it's a shitehole.

TBH I bailed out of this thread when we started accusing each other of centuries old atrocities. Not Cool.

I like the English as much as I like the Dutch, Germans, Australians, etc. Again like is not an antonym for crap.

It's slightly exaggerated sterotyping for comic effect basically trying to poke fun at our English neighbours who let an overabundence of self loathing get in the way of a bit of entirely justifiable national pride.

OK cool. Do you think there might be a sweet spot in between 'overabundence of self-loathing' and excessive patriotism? 🙂

Maybe we could just, you know, be people and not let where we happen to have been born be a defining factor of our personalities? Crazy I know.

captainsasquatch - Member
I like the English

Right, we're onto something here.

Everyone knows the English don't really hate anyone, we're just too reserved/scared to show any real love.

If we can get a Scot to say they like the English we can save the union!!

perchypanther nearly said it.... ^^^^^

OK cool. Do you think there might be a sweet spot in between 'overabundence of self-loathing' and excessive patriotism?

There is undoubdedly a massive sweet spot where this is entirely possible. Just get on the M6 and drive north. You'll find it eventually.

Edit: I like the English. I love the English.... they just can't find it in themselves to like or love themselves. If you want to see what English patriotism should look like ...go to Cornwall. They are as proud and patriotic about their part of the world as any Scotsman or Welshman without coming across as dicks about it.

ads678 - Member

captainsasquatch - Member
I like the English

Right, we're onto something here.

Everyone knows the English don't really hate anyone, we're just too reserved/scared to show any real love.

If we can get a Scot to say they like the English we can save the union!!