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I spent a few weeks in Sweden, where knife use is on the school curriculum from about the age of 6....they have highest knife carrying percentage in the world - [b]and knife crime there is almost unheard of[/b].
Is it?
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2011/07/22/six-stabbed-at-swedish-wedding/
http://www.thelocal.se/37898/20111213/
http://www.thelocal.se/37596/20111127/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3098834.stm
1,299,995 other "unheard of" results on Google
Ok BoringBob; now go and find figures of numbers of stabbings per head of population in the UK and in Sweden.
Y'know, for balance, like...
i guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't beleive in knives/guns/screwdrivers/sharp toothbrushes/scissors being banned.
I think that people that mis-use them should be banned.
And by that I mean, by all means carry a knife, but if you use it on anyone, even threatening rather than actually putting the pointy end in them then there should be *proper* consequences, not just a stiff telling off and told to go on your way so you cna do it again tomorrow.
Ok BoringBob; now go and find figures of numbers of stabbings per head of population in the UK and in Sweden.Y'know, for balance, like...
No need. I didn't make daft statements like knife crime is unheard of in Sweden, when googling "stabbing Sweden" returns 1.3 million results.
Just because you carried a knife as a youth, don't get all defensive chav boy.
Of course, there is the flawed assumption that the non-law abiding person will give a to$$ what the law says, while the law-abiding citizen is penalised for wanting to carry a knife for completely legitimate reasons.
totally agree, if you have it in your head that you're going to go and stab someone I doubt the fact that you shouldn't be carrying a knife around is going to stop you.
I would also suggest that since knives are so readily available for legitimate uses, ie: kitchen, that you could never expect to stop that kind of intentional attack, which BTW, it seems like all (maybe not 1) of the linked cases above were, as there is always going to be a knife around for you to use.
I doubt there are many 'stabbings of circumstance', most are people going out with the intention of stabbing someone, or carrying one with the intention of using it (if attacked by other gang etc.), which means the above applies, you've crossed the bigger line so the little one is meaningless.
When I used to stab schoolkids in the 80`s, I used a butterfly knife. Flick knives were for commoners.
googling "stabbing Sweden" returns 1.3 million results.
'Stabbing UK' returns [i]seventeen million[/i] results.
Now, let's look at the figures....
Population of Sweden: 9.5 million aprox.
Population of UK: 62 million approx.
So, that's a ratio of 6.5:1, roughly.
17 vs 1.3 million = 13.1:1, roughly.
Don't have the figures for knife possession by citizens by either country, but having bin there/knowing people from there, I'd say the figures are a lot higher for Sweden.
So, I think we can safely conclude from that bit of scientific research, that knife crime in Sweden is significantly lower than in the UK, despite a higher rate of knife possession. 😀
Just because you carried a knife as a youth, don't get all defensive chav boy.
Oh dear...
I'm not being 'defensive', as I don't actually feel threatened in any way. You're resortion to insults suggest that perhaps it is in fact [i]you[/i] who feel threatened... 😉
been known to carry a knife for trail maintenance work, 4inch locking blade but it was the wood saw that is why i have it.
amedias - Member
by all means carry a knife, but if you use it on anyone
then there should be *proper* consequences
🙄
The old law was that "anything you carry as a weapon is illegal" law was supplemented with an "all knives are illegal except small folding ones" law to deal with *rseholes who carried knives and used the defence "[i]wasn't going to use that 6 inch sheath knife to stab anyone h'officer, its for peeling me apples, innit" [/i]
Unfortunately it was fundamentally poorly written (surprise) and did not define what was meant by "folding knife" so when a yobbo was done for carrying a locking folder, he argued it wasn't a "folding" knife, they were also concerned that having no definition for folding was a problem, as you could use a "folding" knife that only folded after removing a nut and bold and it could in theory still be "folding"... So the court came to a nice pragmatic botched solution to ensure it prosecuted him despite him being right.. and henceforth locking knives are only actually illegal as case law has decided a "locking" knife is not a "folding knife" 😯
suffice to say, normal caveat's should apply - any knife that can be reasonably justified should never be a problem anywhere, and any "legal" knife can still see you put away if you're carrying it in the pub on a saturday night.
been known to carry a knife for trail maintenance work, 4inch locking blade but it was the wood saw that is why i have it.
understandable
walking down the high street slashing open plastic packets holding memory cards.
Not understandable
'Stabbing UK' returns seventeen million results.
Now, let's look at the figures....
Population of Sweden: 9.5 million aprox.
Population of UK: 62 million approx.
So, that's a ratio of 6.5:1, roughly.
17 vs 1.3 million = 13.1:1, roughly.
Don't have the figures for knife possession by citizens by either country, but having bin there/knowing people from there, I'd say the figures are a lot higher for Sweden.
So, I think we can safely conclude from that bit of scientific research, that knife crime in Sweden is significantly lower than in the UK, despite a higher rate of knife possession.
but i wasnt comparing to the uk?
Just questioning the statement that sweden was some sort of stab free utopia
It is compared to Hackney.
organdonor
roll your smiley eyes all you want, but if you must, please don't quote lines without the context of the preceding paragraphs and without actually offering up some form of counter point...otherwise you might as well just sit in the corner and tut.
walking down the high street slashing open plastic packets holding memory cards.Not understandable
why not, if he happens to have a knife (for legitimate reasons obviously) in his pocket and needs to get into the packaging?
Or would you rather he carried scissors around instead, or is that not allowed either?
What a ridiculous thread, why do you think locking knives are illegal? If you carry a knife for any other reason than for a legitimate 'work' reason then what purpose would you need one for? If you carry a knife and you are confronted by someone what would you do? What do you think organised crime gangs would think if lock knives were not illegal, they would be armed to the high teeth without fear of repercussion! I carry a Gerber multi tool with locking blade on my work utility belt, as a police officer it comes in very handy sometimes, it stays on my belt when I leave work in my locker, I am covered in law. As above, what is the world coming to when there is a need to ask why lock knives are illegal, ridiculous!
A bloke I know once stabbed a policeman in the head with a pair of scissors, permanently disabling him.
Scissors would fall under pointed bladed article, arrestable offence in the right circumstances.
Yes, he was arrested iirc.
You're right - logical, moral and legal argument would all be wasted on this thread hence 🙄you might as well just sit in the corner and tut.
*wanders off to sit in the corner, tutting*
what is the world coming to when there is a need to ask why lock knives are illegal, ridiculous!
What is the world coming to when people are ridiculed for debating a law which has some dubious elements?
There are already laws to govern carrying offensive weapons - why ban such a specific one? other pointy objects are avaialble.
Gangs armed to the teeth if they were legal? - see above
List of items that are not illegal but can be used as deadly weapons...almost endless, but they are all covered by existing law about carrying offensive weapons.
And I'm mildly amused by the concept of 'organised crime gangs' worrying about breaking the law 🙂
As above, what is the world coming to when there is a need to ask why lock knives are illegal, ridiculous!
Hear, Hear....but for different reasons obviously 😉
I carry a Gerber multi tool with locking blade on my work utility belt, as a police officer it comes in very handy sometimes, it stays on my belt when I leave work in my locker, I am covered in law.
Can you clarify thorpie, you carry a multi tool with a locking blade in public? (On patrol etc. I suppose even within the confines of the Police Station could be classed as a public place)
You're right - logical, moral and legal argument would all be wasted on this thread hence
*wanders off to sit in the corner, tutting*
you obviously haven't read my earlier posts then, if you had you would have noticed that I'm actually stuck in a moral/logical dilemma of being opposed to some aspects and concepts while accepting that in reality and when dealing with real life there are compromises and sacrifices that need to be made.
If you have some well reasoned and logical thoughts to bring to the table, please bring them, I'm all for a healthy debate and if you assume my mind is made up then you have judged me unfairly.
Can't believe I am arguing with a member of the constabulary, but!!
What do you think organised crime gangs would think if lock knives were not illegal, they would be armed to the high teeth without fear of repercussion!
Are these the same [b]unarmed[/b] groups of charming young men that we read about in the news? So glad they are not armed - it would make the world such a nasty place 😉
very amused at the thought of organised gangs making sure they only carry legal weapons on the streets with them - I'm surprised a police officer could be that naive*.
My OP was more to do with why LOCKING BLADES are illegal, and why other pointy stuff isn't.
How I see it, surely an object only becomes an offensive weapon when it's user decide to use it in that fashion. I absolutely agree that you shouldn't have a knife on you unless you've got a good reason for it (as I did as a sailing instructor/using it on shoots), my point was that a folding knife really isn't any less dangerous than a locking one, and the police officer that took my gerber actually said that had the locking mechanism not been operational I wouldn't have received the caution I got.
*not really, come to think of it.
I think it's more about context isn't it?
The Rozzers work off of guidelines and legal precedent and if a reasonable explanation for someone carrying a knife can be made they will be open to it... probably...
Frinstance:
Chav scummer wandering about town with a kitchen knife hidden within easy reach in a pocket, and no reasonable explanation for having it in his possession, the Rozzers can reasonably suspect him of planning to use it as a weapon...
Or
Perfectly respectable fella on a £3k dandy horse carrying a multitool in the bottom of a camelbak, that happens to include a knife as one of it's tools, it's reasonable to expect that he is not carrying the blade for use as a weapon and I think the rozzers would be able to make the distinction.
I don't go shopping with a knife in my pocket and I wouldn't expect other shoppers to do so...
I think people are selling the police a bit short here, I mean they apply the law within the given guidance and can apply their own judgements, it's simply that there are very few circumstances that can "reasonably" legitimize carrying a 3"+ fixed blade in public TBH...
i had a nice swissarmy forester - they have locking blade and screwdriver
[url= http://www.victorinox.com/ch/category/Category/Pocket-knives-with-lock-blade/Pocket-knives-with-lock-blade-Linerlock-111-mm/1106?f=category&v=1/100/1004/1106&m=add& ]click for range[/url]
the locking made the screwdriver and knife much safer to use - shame I lost it..
cookeaa - Member I think it's more about context isn't it?
Let's hope so
I think people are selling the police a bit short here, I mean they apply the law within the given guidance and can apply their own judgements,
Again, let's hope so. But it was a police office who came out with the pretty categorical:
What a ridiculous thread, why do you think locking knives are illegal?...what is the world coming to when there is a need to ask why lock knives are illegal, ridiculous!
I know its the Mail but was widely reported in most other media at the time.
Not really sure 'Perfectly respectable fella on a £3k dandy horse carrying a multitool in the bottom of a camelbak,' would get away with it if he ran into this police officer or judge.
Come on DB - just look at that bloke - obvious bloody criminal. 😉
When the knife was found in his glove compartment (again, soooo suspicious!!) I wonder how he answered:
If you carry a knife for any other reason than for a legitimate 'work' reason then what purpose would you need one for?
Bring back 'angin - Oh, wait that's Great Expectations tonight (or tomorrow's episode)!!
the locking made the screwdriver and knife much safer to use
This.
The OP asked why LOCKING blades are illegal. As previously stated it is NOT illegal to have a folding blade of 3" or less but if the same knife has a mechanism to lock the blade it then becomes illegal to have in a public place. It seems ridiculous that you are committing a criminal offence by riding around with a gerber/leatherman type multitool in your camelbak yet if you file off the locking tab on the knife blade, rendering it more dangerous to the LEGITIMATE user as it could fold on them in use, the same tool becomes legal.
Locking blades are not illegal. You can carry one with good reason.
Its simply that yo don't have to show good reason to carry a small folding knife. A cook may carry around his knives with no issue, similarly if yo have a need for a knife then its no problem to carry it. You only have to be able to justify it.
I got searched by the police on the the way home from working at the farm. I had a locking knife on my belt and they did get quite excited till i pointed out the cow shit on my trousers. This was almost 20 years ago though. I used to carry a knife almost all the time when i was a kid.
Its simply that yo don't have to show good reason to carry a small folding knife
True. However, you are NOT allowed to carry a sub 3" blade if it locks (see pg1. - in law it is classed as a fixed blade). You are if it doesn't. Even if they are otherwise identical, some knife manufacturers make two versions of their knives for this reason.
Given a locking blade is safer for the user this seems ridiculous.
Billyboulders i'm really not sure your right
About what?
(Or do you mean in the head 😉 )
Yes you are billy - so long as you have a reason for carrying it.
Locking blades being illegal dont think they are if you have them for a good reason.
So wanting to cut up your fruit when you have a picnic is not a valid reason?
Seems just as valid as needing one when in the outdoors.
"Illegal" is probably not the right word, not allowed in public without good reason maybe?
The point I am trying (badly) to make is, as TJ says you do not have to show good reason to carry a small folding knife. You do have to show good reason to carry a locking version of an identical knife. (Eg. Opinel No.4, sub 3" blade, available locking or non-locking for this reason.)
IMO a locking blade on a small folding knife is safer for the user so it seems a bit daft to me.
Bloody hell but the pedants and whiners are out tonight, especially boardin'bob and MSP. Just because you live in a vacuum-packed, hermetically sealed environment where you never come into contact with anything that requires more than teeth or fingernails to open doesn't mean the rest of the population does. I've carried a knife practically every day of my life, in fact probably fifty years. I used to carry sheath knives and folders, multi tools like Swiss Army knives and locking blades. A knife is probably the most useful tool I carry, for reasons I've pointed out on another thread, and others have said here.
When you get utterly ridiculous statements about waiting until getting home and using scissors to open thick plastic packaging, what are you supposed to do if you're 200 miles from home, found the memory card in your camera is full and the ones in the shop are in packaging the same thickness as an Airfix model kit? Just stare at it and hope the plastic dissolves?
Go and buy a pair of scissors? Oh, wait, they're sharp, pointy objects with long blades, so are you going to throw them away after using them? Don't be stupid. I just cut the packaging with the little knife in my pocket, which happens to be technically illegal because it locks open. I gave up on non-locking blades having had them shut across my fingers a number of times.
Cutting back brambles and such on Sustrans paths when out for an evening ride is better when you have something sharp to do it with. Why bother? I'm a volunteer Ranger. It's my job, I don't go loaded with a bag of tools when out for an evening spin, a pocket knife is all I ever need.
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This little beauty I carry on my keyring, the blade is only just over an inch long.
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And this is my EDC knife, a Spyderco Lava, again the blade is less that 2" long, and a very handy little knife.
The police have to deal with the consequences of knife crime, most people on here don't. People get searched if it is suspected that they may have an offensive weapon(knife) hence the risk of them being arrested if caught with one is a deterrent. I am not naive and i feel alot safer carrying a taser. I feel it is some people on here who are naive and out of touch with what lengths wannabe gang members will go to! Anyway I'm off to work a night shift, hopefully lock up some burglars and hope that I don't get threatened or attacked by someone with a knife, locking or otherwise. As I said, ridiculous question!
Offensive wepons illegal
Locking knives legal but you must have a resonable excuse or lawfully authority
Blades articles legal in public, If you have good cause or if folding blade under 3 inches.
So no to swords flick knives and butterfly knives , yes to anything else you can justify and yes to pen knives under 3 inched unless you intend to use them to hurt someone.