configuration
What about calling someone a tory, when they’ve already stated they want a Labour government?
Well, do you want THEIR labour government or one that will be voted in?
But then if someone were to express their intention to vote for anyone else, they’d run the risk of being accused of more or less voting for the tories anyway…
Our local voting on the last GE was handed to the Tory's by Labour (yep only 1 seat but)
Right up to the end of voting they were posting a vote for the LibDem's was a vote for the Tory's.. even after they lost badly with enough votes to have put a non Tory in.
All this ‘sounding caution’ about Labour is a standard Tory deflection tactic now.
And you didn’t say if you’d vote Tory or not, just that “we need a labour government” half the Tory party seem to accept they need to have a stint across the aisle now…
What a daft comment. Apart from a brief stint 2015-18 I haven't electorally supported the Labour Party (other London mayoral elections) for over 25 years, despite being an affiliated member of the Labour Party. I just haven't felt able to - the gulf between its priorities and mine have simply been too great.
Other than for the purposes of childish taunting to accuse me of therefore being a Tory is patently absurd.
If the Labour Party feels that a non-Labour anti-Tory vote is a wasted vote then the Labour leader needs to revisit his recent public declaration that proportional representation will not be in the next Labour Party election manifesto, despite the Labour Party Conference having just voted in favour of PR.
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/labour-party-conference-backs-proportional-representation/
The Labour leadership clearly wants to suppress, for example the Green vote, by deliberately maintaining a discredited, unpopular, and anti-democratic, electoral system.
It maintains this arrogant attitude - there are two choices only, us or them, Labour or Tory. An attitude clearly shared by some on here. It deliberately attempts to deny to people that they have any more choices than that.
And it is this arrogant sense of entitlement by the Labour establishment that they "own" your vote which has over the years alienated so many working-class once traditional Labour voters. It was Peter Mandelson who once told Peter Hain to 'stop fussing over the working class because they had nowhere else to go'.
In the local elections a few months ago I did not back Labour I backed the Green candidates (the Greens made their first ever breakthrough locally in that election) In the next general election I will in all probability do the same unless something dramatically changes, and all the more so as a Labour landslide appears to be all but certain. Although I will always regret not feeling able to vote for a party which I am affiliated to but which has been hijacked by middle-class self-serving professional careerists.
Far from being a Tory configuration sounds more committed to Labour than me - he is certainly not a Tory
I do dream of the complete meltdown of the Tory vote and a staggering landslide majority of 200-300 seats for Labour though, it would cause uncontrollable chaos for Prime Minister Starmer.
I hope its Johnson so the civil war in the party gets worse and they remain paralysed. The longer the psychodrama goes on the better for the country long term. Thats months of no effective government now
Well if by some miracle the Tories squeak another victory you'll only have yourself to thank Ernie. I'm not sure what sort of Labour party you want. Left economically, right wing culturally ? Bear in mind that not everyone will agree exactly with you, esp on cultural issues, so try to be tolerant of that.
I really don't get this
'In order for Labour to be effective, it needs to look at the mistakes of the past, its own included. And not make them again. And it needs to listen to all its members, and entertain a broad range of ideas. This is called learning. If Labour is unwilling to learn, it will be unfit to govern.'
It looks to me like the Labour party have done that, and the Conservatives have not, and thanks to how the party and voting system work have disappeared into a small tight hole. Note that in a broad church, with a broad range of ideas there will be some disagreement... how do you want to spin that?
I really don’t get this
I have explained it all previously.
It looks to me like the Labour party have done that
It doesn't look like it to me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59910107
The current shadow health secretary's answer to the problems with the NHS is to further privatise it, basically. That does not fill me with optimism for a future under Labour. It's clear Streeting has learned nothing from the past, and is willing to repeat the same mistakes.
Well if by some miracle the Tories squeak another victory you’ll only have yourself to thank Ernie. I’m not sure what sort of Labour party you want. Left economically, right wing culturally ? Bear in mind that not everyone will agree exactly with you, esp on cultural issues, so try to be tolerant of that.
What a weird comment that gets weirder as it progresses.
Thanks for pointing it out but I was already aware that 'not everyone will agree exactly with me'.
And I don't have to "try" to be tolerant of "cultural issues" it comes quite naturally to me. For example back in August I attended the Hindu Janmashtami festival along with tens of thousands of Hindus, despite not being a Hindu myself, just to learn more about other people's cultures. I have also attended Buddhist religious services, visited a Sikh temple, a synagogue, been to a Taoist service, and once attended Friday prayers at my local mosque, among other things.
I have no idea what this has to do with who will be the next Prime Minister though.
Nor how I vote.
I reckon Boris is going to win this easy.
Piece of cake.
So is Penny going to pull out overnight and crown Sunak, or will she still try to reach 100+ backers?
If this goes to the members, I suspect she will get the nod.
troll ^^^
The new PM is one who serves those who control all major ‘world leaders’.
Well those who control all major ‘world leaders’ are gonna be proper pissed off when Rishi Sunak loses the next general election in that case.
No, wait, don't tell me....... they also control the leader of the Labour Party.
Am I right?
treatment of Corbyn
Corbyn was elected by a small minority of left wing party zealots, No different to Truss and no more representative of the electorate at large who also rejected Corbyn at a GE.
Political parties need to appeal (different from serve) the majority of the electorate, that's democracy for all its flaws.
govt serves the interests of all the people
Not possible, people have different interests which is where democracy comes in.
Anyway time this thread closed, we know whom the next PM is and likely to be for the next 2 years. Whatever else Sunak is he's not as tone deaf to the optics as Boris or Truss, she the pointed calls to the developed leaders in the first 2r hours. He's a lot less likely to male the obvious mistakes whilst quietly pushing his regressive policies through in the background.
left wing party zealots
Jesus. You mean people who want a fairer more just society where absolute poverty has been eradicated and the rich pay their fair share? f***** Zeolots! 🙄
Corbyn was elected by a small minority of left wing party zealots, No different to Truss
No the difference with Corbyn and Truss was that Truss was in govt. It's entirely up to political parties to elect who the hell they want, and then put that leader to the people in an election. The tories didn't do that. If you can't understand that distinction then you need to do some hard thinking.
You mean people who want a fairer more just society where absolute poverty has been eradicated and the rich pay their fair share?
Many people want that, not all agree on the way to achieve it, it's not a preserve of the far left. By their very nature party members tend to be at the extreme end of the political spectrum.
And yes many Corbyn supporters were zealots:
a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.
More culture war warriors, the right doesn't have a monopoly on intolerant nut jobs that see the world through their blinkered outlook.
you need to do some hard thinking.
You like to tell other people how to think don't you.
difference with Corbyn and Truss was that Truss was in govt.
Fair point, Corbyn was democratically rejected by the electorate. The selection process for party leader was still the same though, parliamentary party decide on the candidates and the membership choose the Loony Tunes character.
You like to tell other people how to think don’t you.
Only when people say stupid things. 😉
Stupid is subjective so right back at you 😉😉😉😉😉
political parties undeniably serve the interests of a tiny elite.
You think that the Green Party, for example, serves the interests of a "tiny elite"?
The Labour Party is firmly in the grip of professional political careerists who have no intention of upsetting the apple cart and undermining the status quo with a radical alternative which challenges existing power and wealth.
The idea that they are part of some sort of global conspiracy is hogwash.
Corbyn was elected by a small minority of left wing party zealots
In what universe is 60% and 62% a "small minority"?
The Labour Party is firmly in the grip of professional political careerists who have no intention of upsetting the apple cart and undermining the status quo with a radical alternative which challenges existing power and wealth.
In fairness, this is because they want to be elected and they don't think they will be if the propose radical change. Democracy in action innit.
You think they acted as if they wanted to win a general election? They were devastated when in 2017 Labour increased its share of the vote to a level not seen for 16 years.
Some were perfectly open and honest, in public, about their opposition to a left-wing Labour government:
Is the thread now about who will replace sunak - or has this drifted off topic?
Is the thread now about who will replace sunak – or has this drifted off topic?
Strangely for this place, a political thread has drifted into the regular argument about Labour and Corbyn.
#theusualsuspects
Well the person most likely to replace Sunak is Starmer.
Which is how this thread got onto the subject of the Labour Party when I asked:
Well those who control all major ‘world leaders’ are gonna be proper pissed off when Rishi Sunak loses the next general election in that case.
No, wait, don’t tell me……. they also control the leader of the Labour Party.
Am I right?
I would be interested in another theory which suggests that the next Prime Minister won't be the Labour leader though....... anyone?
That's better.
It will be Starmer.
Time to close the thread.
I would be interested in another theory which suggests that the next Prime Minister won’t be the Labour leader though……. anyone?
Because it will all go off for Rishi come the spring and the Tories will insist on foisting another leader from their benches (that are apparently full of talent). Manifesto blah, blah.
That’s better.
It will be Starmer.
Time to close the thread.
I completely agree. If we could combine all the political threads into just one, the operational burden on Ernie having the have the last word on every chuffing thread would be greatly reduced.
😉
I think Starmer will not get that chance to be the next PM, unless he can come up with a better idea of solving the energy crisis without bankrupting the country.
The reason is that Starmer professional background does not allow him to be "creative". The current energy crisis requires a lot of high risk creative thinking, which no past experience (rules) will be able to deal with it.
As the American is trying to solve the energy crisis by demanding Saudi to increase oil production, which has not gone down well as MBS is not going to be dictated to anymore.
If Saudi does not play ball, which is happening now, the energy crisis will prolong.
The American threatening Saudi, which they have recently, will only see new world order emerging.
Saudi is the "King" maker now.
Any positive examples of tory 'creativity' chewkw?
As in good for society.
Covid vaccine strategy was science led; all johnson did was approve the strategy and open the money taps - any idiot could have done that.
Furlough? Developed by civil servants; either make money available or watch the economy crumble.
Migrants being exported to Rwanda; that was/is the intention but has stalled - ground to a halt in reality.
Brexit? That's working out well; Ha!
Jeapordise the NI peace agreement.
Enable farage/tice and others.
Creatively damage UK's financial reputation and credibility.
Your turn now.
Any positive examples of tory ‘creativity’ chewkw?
For the current energy crisis I seriously doubt they can do a lot but perhaps slightly better than Starmer, considering the opposition stance i.e. "we can do better than you".
At some point it will no longer matter who will be in govt if the energy crisis continues. All the past decisions etc will be minor by comparison.
Oh ya ... Starmer can have the PM job if he wishes I have no problem with that. Whether UK wants to rejoining EU etc (I don't) is not even important anymore other than temporary relieve. It will get harder before it gets better but for the moment UK is still slightly better than many EU nations.
I would be interested in another theory which suggests that the next Prime Minister won’t be the Labour leader though……. anyone?
I'd suggest no-one take it for granted.
without bankrupting the country.
The country can’t go bankrupt. It’s impossible. Do some reading.
The country can’t go bankrupt. It’s impossible. Do some reading.
As a matter of speech but more like very high inflation.
They are trying to use high interest rate to "cool" the market ... hhhmmm ...
The question is whether Murica is going to increase oil export to help out EU's energy crisis? Think they are going to look after themselves first. Also if they increase oil extraction it will not benefit their oil companies at all. But Murica being Murica is trying to sneakily seduce Venezuela to get them to increase oil production. It looks like the Murican petrol currency is going to face some challenging times ahead and with that the world will suffer. One wrong move and 70% of the world oil production will swing towards the other side and the new world order starts ...
Well, they wanted Biden and now they know what Biden administration is about.
chewkw - a dismal failure on your part being unable to provide any positive examples of the the tory 'creativity' you referred to above ^^^
Please do try again; stick to the subject - which you raised.
You have been referred so many times over many years by so many people as a troll - and mods haven't intervened as far as I know.
I see posts by veganrider which are unintelligible, david icke levels of bullshit and I refer to the poster as a troll; get an instant warning.
Compare'n'contrast; I see hypocrisy.
chewy isn't a troll...... he actually believes this stuff - he's not doing it just to get a rise out of people.
I see posts by veganrider which are unintelligible, david icke levels of bullshit and I refer to the poster as a troll; get an instant warning.
Really? Plenty of people have called him that, there's either a blanket warning going out or there's a different context.
I agree, I don't think chewy is a troll. He has a very different world view having been raised in a different culture, and doesn't always express himself clearly, I'd call him challenging rather than trolling.
Do some reading.
@dazh, without a reference for what to read, this sounds like condescending bluster, almost threatening in fact. The words of an ignorant bully, though in fact it does appear that you do know some stuff (whilst being ignorant of other stuff, just like the rest of us). Similarly "educate yourself" etc.
without a reference for what to read,
I’ve posted many references across many threads on this subject. I’m not going to do that every time someone repeats this nonsense as if it were fact. Besides it’s chewy, troll in chief and professional ignoramus.
chewkw – if only brant would tell us who you really are; he had some interaction with you when he was with PX/on one.
One thing has always been clear – you’re a troll, pretending to be a malay on tyneside.
Pull the other one hinny.
You’re not some fantastical creation from the mind of Leonard Barras; you’re not in the same caategory as Seppie Elphinstook, goalkeeper for Wallsend Amnesia FC.
You’re, at best, mildly amusing but only in extremely small doses.
What a clown.
Resorting to personal attacks like this, just because someone else has views you don't agree with, is quite nasty imo. By all means counter an argument with whatever facts or other information you have, but calling for someone's identity to be exposed on an internet forum is tantamount to bullying. There's a lot of judgment and labelling on this thread, but not a great deal of understanding. Have a word with yourselves, eh?
There's no conspiracy involved but all of the parliamentary parties are committed to a system where a tiny minority own and control the world's business and assets at the expense of everyone else. The parties do ague, however, over the size of the crumb(s) to be handed down. 'The markets' is a euphemism for simply following the dictats of international finance capital and is an attempt to absolve politicians from the blame for wrecking the lives of their electorate through transferring wealth from poor to rich aka austerity or 'balancing the books'. Politicians are recommended and promoted on how close they've been to the 'markets' (drilled in PPE at Oxford, worked for Goldman Sachs, Blackrock, was on the BoEMC etc).
I’ve posted many references across many threads on this subject.
So it should be easy to post references. Or, failing that, give your reasoning. You may think this approach is justified in the case of one forum member, but there are many voices here and your manner of posting discourages them from engaging with you on this topic.
Or, failing that, give your reasoning.
The country can't go bankrupt because it has a central bank that creates it's own money. That is all you need to know.
The Labour Party is firmly in the grip of professional political careerists
Alternative view… many on the front bench have had real careers outside politics, including the leader of the opposition and shadow chancellor. There are of course some that have always dedicated their lives to politics, such as the shadow home secretary, it is a party that attracts people who believe that through politics they can make a difference.
@dazh, more arrogance. Why should you determine what other people need to know?
Arrogance? Blimey monetary supply issues have been explained and discussed oon here enough times.
Why should you determine what other people need to know?
It's a simple fact. It's not up to me to determine what is a fact or not. A fact is a fact. If someone deliberately chooses to ignore a fact then they're being wilfully ignorant. That is also a fact.
