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I’m down in the Midlands
Sorry Lunge, the Midlands has been steadfastly average porridge :p . Not too hot and not too cold. So little to report there. South West is low, NE/NW high. London is London.
The government has noticed that in some parts of the country, notably the bottom right corner, Tier 2 is not controlling spread. The interesting thing to note is that in this region, rises in cases and admission were seen before lockdown2 ended. Everywhere else things behaved as expected. Why the difference?
Mutated strain that spreads faster - I think this is unlikely. Viruses mutate regularly because the protein machinery is a bit noisy for RNA polymerase. Behaviours? Why is the SE different to the rest of the country? Shopping Lakeside/Bluewater/Public transport?
The truth is I don't think we know. We DO know that lockdown prevents and reduces spread. Tier3 looks like it also reduces spread - see NE and NW. So let's try that and see in the South.
For a few days... I'm actually less worried about the Five days of Christmas than I am about the many days in the wrong Tier before and after Christmas. Expect a rise in deaths in January, but I'm not convinced that we'll exceed Spring peaks. Control measures do work. They are unpalatable, no doubt, but they work. And the vaccine will keep the vulnerable out of hospital.
For some good news - I did say I'd show the excess mortality figures. For Week 49, they fell to 17% above 10-year mean. this is the effect of lockdown2 feeding through. they might have another week or so to go. I thought they would stabilise but they have fallen slightly.
Tier 3 - woop full lockdown... er, except for shopping and hair dressing, but no household mixing in situations that simply cannot be controlled. At least the pub will get a little financial help over the next few weeks. I will go back to drinking my sherry on the park bench, in a big coat, with my five friends.
on the park bench, in a big coat, with my five friends
Is that a euphemism?
So Secondary schools are having a ‘staggered return’ after Xmas. Exam classes to go back as normal, others will be online…..what better time to announce it than lunchtime on the last day of term eh?!?!
FFS I only just finished ordering my practicals and printing for the first week back!!! Not sure if it means doing lessons by zoom or back to setting work, why just a week. WTF is going on? Just as I thought I had all my ducks in a row and could relax over the holiday I get this literally as I walk out the door. Is it happening everywhere? Is it confirmed? Can I go to the pub now (no tier 3) FFS!!
Furlough extended for another month, to the end of April.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55345392
So more people move to tier 3, that lockdown worked then! And rules will be relaxed at Xmas!!
And rules will be relaxed at Xmas!!
It's the gift of an accountability amnesty from Cummings Claus. Maybe Boris took that there is no naughty list Tesco advert to heart. Atleast his MP chums will be able to sleep soundly knowing no nasty front page splash for their Christmas dash.
Meanwhile in my world it's causing all manner of bother as, metaphorically, I have relatives in Great Barrington.
I’m in Herefordshire which is soon to be Tier 1, we’re surrounded by areas of much higher rates of covid. I have a feeling our pubs will be busy this Xmas, but not necessarily with locals. Standing by to go back up a Tier in January. Crazy
kelvin - glad to see that response
you got a bit caplock and boldy boldy further up the last page and had me a little concerned
In Bedfordshire we are going up to tier 3 this weekend, but with xmas am expecting them to need a tier 4 in Jan and I reckon cases will be 1000/100000 here by then.
What odds full national lockdown on 28th December? Looks like NI are joining the Welsh in that already.
in a big coat, with my five friends
I reckon 6 regular sized coats would be more comfortable and safer.
Furlough extended for a month implies to me that they've realised the vaccination programme is behind schedule
What odds full national lockdown on 28th December? Looks like NI are joining the Welsh in that already.
I am pretty confident we'll have a full lockdown, bar schools being left open, here in Scotland for Jan & Feb. In fact seeing as I have the week of 15-19th booked off work, we'll probably come out of lockdown on the 22nd Feb.
Our Christmas dinner with my folks has been downgraded from feast with the finest wines to perhaps a dog walk with sandwiches, if the weather is kind...
Are they handling it well, or have you just not been told about any cases/been advised of the actual bare minimum?
I know my wife’s school are only isolating the absolute bare minimum of pupils when a test comes back positive, not telling teachers who may have taught that pupil and sure as shit aren’t notifying parents of the rest of the class.
It's very difficult to tell what's happening.
As I posted last week.. we get information like "one or more pupils tested positive" WTF does that mean 1, 10, 100?
We're booked 27/12 to 3/1 in the Lakes in our motorhome (both Tier 2) 27th is our first day off work together so I'm predicting lockdown will start 28th!
Are they handling it well, or have you just not been told about any cases/been advised of the actual bare minimum?
We get an actual number, and at daughter's school we get told which year(s).
We - and more importantly the kids - think they are doing a pretty good job in pretty awful circumstances.
Yet again, one rule for us...
35000 cases today 😳
Wooo. Reading Berkshire Tier three. That means its about 8 miles from my house. I hope the virus can read the county signs.
I wonder if Didcot will get crowds from Reading heading this way for their late shopping on Saturday? I’d better get down the butchers tomorrow.
Tier 3 - retail stays open. You just can't get pissed in Weatherspoons even if it is curry club. The great unwashed will still be doing their x-mas shopping in Reading.
Yet again, one rule for us…
We get an actual number, and at daughter’s school we get told which year(s).
We got numbers today...though there is barely anyone left so ???
Unfortunately, we have been made aware of two more members of our school community who
have tested positive for COVID 19 today.
Phew, good job schools are COVID secure... stupid kids must have picked it up at home since it's impossible at school. Thank goodness schools are safe.
We know that you may find this concerning; please be assured that we have acted promptly and
that we will continue to monitor the situation closely. Since being made aware of the positive test
result, we have spoken with Public Health England to seek advice as to how we should
proceed. We have conducted our track and trace process, and as a result, have asked some
students to isolate. The school remains open, and your child should continue to attend as normal if
they remain well.
Oh great...they can hand in the model of Toyko they have just done for English. Without that I'm sure he will barely know how to read and write when he leaves school.
This is additionally unfortunate today, as some of the students who have been sent home to
isolate will have to do so on Christmas Day. We are awaiting several test results from other
students as well, and hopefully they will all return as negative to avoid further students needing to
isolate.
Oh well.... just in time to spread it about really.
If your child should test positive between the Friday 18th December and Christmas Day please
contact either myself CCC.sch.uk or YYY on
XXX.sch.uk or 01483 xxxxxx as the school office will be closed from 12.30pm on
Friday. We are obliged to conduct contacting for any positive cases right through until Christmas
Day.
Ah of course best do as we're told ... and after Christmas day it doesn't matter
There seems to be talk of a staggered start time for different year groups in January. We have no
further information at this time, but I will write in the new year before the return on 6th January to
confirm what this means for us
Ah, so best not then, we wouldn't want to stagger the start of term would we?
Steve, can you start your own school covid thread, please?.
35000 cases today 😳
Does this include the 11000 they missed from Wales? Worrying if not.
Edit - it does, 11,000 cases previously missed in the 'puter added to Wales for the daily total.
**** me, you couldnt make up a bigger shambles if you tried
The National Education Union has now written to Education Secretary Gavin Williamson saying the plans for a school testing system are "inoperable".
It said: "Telling school leaders, on the last day of term [for many schools], that they must organise volunteers and parents, supported by their staff, to test pupils in the first week of term, whilst Year 11 and 13 pupils are on site for in-school teaching, is a ridiculous ask."
Teachers were already "exhausted by the unreasonable demands, backed by legal threats, that they have been subjected to this term", said the union's letter.
It added that running such medical procedures was "significantly outside the experience and job description" of school staff, highlighting expert advice that tests carried out by non-specialists were less likely to be effective.
So they want me to test all the kids, get ****ed I'm not doing it.
Oh, just need to make it clear that I 100% agree with and support your "one rule for us" post Kryton... the video was just because it's my earworm... not making fun of your post... you are spot on.
Guilty!
Oh.. now he's on Radio4 telling us fools who stay within the rules that he was "doing the right thing"... the "Cummings defence".
Hang on... now he says it's all down to misinterprations due to to others attending "not having English as a first language"... it's the fault of foreigners... what was all this about "taking personal responsibility"?!?
Does this include the 11000 they missed from Wales? Worrying if not.
Edit – it does, 11,000 cases previously missed in the ‘outer added to Wales for the daily total.
Ah right, cheers for the clarification!
EDIT....what @noobeer said too, PLEASE?!
Oh.. now he’s on Radio4 telling us fools who stay with the rules that he was “doing the right thing”… the “Cummings defence”.
Its bollocks, like Cummings was testing his eyes, he was testing the wine. FFS he went to a Christmas party in lockdown under the rule of six, he should be bloody fired particularly after the Cummings issue. It just tells every one that the Christmas period is pretty much a free for all. ****ers.
Something only actually exists once it applies to the population of London. We all know that.
I am pretty confident we’ll have a full lockdown, bar schools being left open, here in Scotland for Jan & Feb
Hope that doesn’t become necessary but I guess we’ll have to wait and see how the virus spreads through the population over the next fortnight, still no cases in my quiet Galloway town (kirkcudbright) that I know off and I’m thankful that no one I know has had the virus, one of the many benefits of staying in the arse end of nowhere with very few folk. Everyone is wearing masks and behaving so far, apart from the local smackhead who attempted to steal a bottle of wine from the local corner shop and when he was confronted he deliberately coughed into the face of the assistant, not something I imagine he’ll ever try again as a local fishing boat skipper was in the shop at the time.
he should be bloody fired particularly after the Cummings issue
I agree.
I've just read the full article, it was Priti Patel calling for his resignation! My mind is boggling at all the hypocrisy and backstabbing connotations this brings up.
They’ve just added her comment… she was interviewed on Radio4. She didn’t call for his resignation… but she did say he broke the rules, and that his actions were such that he could face a fine (spoiler - he won’t).
I’m in Herefordshire which is soon to be Tier 1, we’re surrounded by areas of much higher rates of covid. I have a feeling our pubs will be busy this Xmas, but not necessarily with locals. Standing by to go back up a Tier in January. Crazy
Ditto. I am in Herefordshire by about 400 metres. Two pubs about the same distance from me, one in Worcestershire, one in Herefordshire. I am sure the worcs one won’t be happy as they are perhaps 50 meters from the border. I would think that there will be quite a few people coming to our village from just over the hills.
People are making sacrifices
The other point of this is lots of people looking for excuses not to follow. People have lost jobs and places to live etc.
For someone like me who isn't that worried about catching the virus themselves we are doing this for the vulnerable but it all seems very pointless** when we are sending kids into virus infected schools especially in the run up to XMAS when they are getting told to make models etc. and then loads will go visiting vulnerable relatives in the break.
***To be honest stark raving bonkers
Steve seriously, can you stop ****ing up this thread and just do your anti education rants on a separate thread please? I speak for several others at least in saying that your posts on this thread with regards to schools are not welcomed or valued in any way at all. I seem to recall that you're having a bit of a tough time currently, so please don't take this as me saying that your posting on the forum should stop, or that I don't welcome you on the forum etc....but on this specific thread we are incredibly lucky with some of the excellent posts from TiRed and others, your rants are really starting to dilute all of that now unfortunately.
Agreed, 100%
do your anti education rants on a separate thread please
It is distracting from the more important aspects of this thread, I'm afraid.
I welcome the posts… but it will be far easier to follow both the schools stuff and the more general Coronavirus stuff, if we keep the school stuff on the other thread…
more important aspects
I disagree with this… but let’s talk about how the mishandling of state schools is the big mistake of the Autumn in the other thread.
I thought I would chip in regarding schools being open.
I have no opinion on if they should be open or closed however I thought it would be of interest...
I work in child protection and when the schools are open I deal with average of 3 incidents a day as a direct result of teachers identifying concerns / bruises etc on children. Sometimes it’s a Kid that had a smack on the bum sometimes it’s a serious sexual crime sometimes it’s kids who saw there mum get battered again but I have never had a day with zero incidents... except
During the March / April lockdown I was averaging 1 incident a fortnight at a push.
I live in a city of 230,000
I guess that’s one reason to have kids in school.
Theres lots of reasons to have schools open but crucially it should be safe for the staff and kids and the families of staff and kids, currently it isnt.
Mass testing in schools has been necessary for months, getting it organised and carried out shouldnt be on the schools. It certainly shouldnt be dumped on senior staff at the end of term. Much as I am firmly of the opinion all slt are (insert expletive here) they spent all summer getting ready for september and will now spend all xmas trying to sort out this shambles.
What a_a said!
My mum is a TA in a school for kids that have been kicked out of mainstream, so you can imagine how much of a toss any of the kids or parents give about Covid guidance. In a long term Tier 3 area. My mum is 62.....I try not to think about it very much if I'm honest.
Edit....Northern Ireland in a six week lockdown starting boxing day!
Northern Ireland in a six week lockdown starting boxing day!
This is the stupidity and negligence of our leaders. Things are going to be shit in two weeks time so let's make sure they are even shitter by opening the floodgates in the meantime.
To take what Kelvin and other's said... and how this is not simply part of an anti-UK education rant.
This to me is in the top 5 cock-ups of the whole CV Saga and pretty central to most of the other 4. I'll go with Kelvin to an extent about this being the biggest for the moment but for me these are all intertwined.
The other thread turned into why kids need to be in school for reasons that have nothing to do with academic education and turned into how kids need protecting from their parents.
I don't think most people really think most kids are missing much of vital in the run up to state school XMAS break and the stubborn refusal to close the buildings seems completely political.
On the other hand the consequences with XMAS approaching are getting dire. As a caller to LBS said, they and noone they know are actually following the guidelines completely. Heck, I just called my cousin in Nelson (couple of hours ago) who was saying they were considering going to a Tier 2 area for XMAS (to his son my great Nephew?? is that the correct term). FFS, he's a solicitor and I've never known him be so complacent about breaking the law!
I think this just sums up the general attitude now? For me it seems anything I do is pretty inconsequential whilst I still send the kid to school. Like many already posted, legal or not we won't visit my mum.
I'm still following all the rules I can (as I understand them) and anything else I can to stop spreading the virus. I'm terrified of going to the shop or PO and giving someone vulnerable the virus and my main and overwhelming route to me getting it is from either the kids or the OH's schools. Quite frankly I've given up thinking about trying not to catch it and only limit who I can spread it to because it seems a forgone conclusion I'll get it.
(PO today posting mums present I took off the FFP2 mask I'd been using for routing some wood and put on a surgical mask for example - I could have put a surgical mask over the vent but couldn't be bothered as I've just accepted I'll get it from the kids school or OH's school)
However... we have 1/2d left as I guess have most schools so I'm probably flogging a dead horse at this point. The damage has been done and the zero'th law comes back in so I'll just drop it for now at least until the new term when hopefully we will have better news.
Mass testing in schools has been necessary for months
I proposed the following in Early August...
Testing, Track and Trace
1. Test Healthcare Workers weekly if at one location, twice weekly for bank staff and those visiting multiple clients in the community.
2. Test school classes/years using sparse pooled samples every week with mobile testing.
3. Test teachers in the same schools weekly.
4. Test workplaces of known high risk by sparse pooled samples every week with mobile testing.
5. Test international arrivals within five days of arrival.
6. Provide mobile Track and Trace units in the community and at public transport hubs.
7. Provide work-based pooled testing materials proactively by NHSTT.
8. Provide a web-based (app?) reporting line for documentation of those in quarantine and self-quarantine.
Me (exercise induced asthmatic) and Mrs K (Lupus) have both just had a text suggesting our Vaccination is coming soon. I'm 48 and a competitive cyclist, she likely can't have it with the issue around allergies, I hope we can refuse it and it goes to a more needed couple of people than us!
The schools thing is a pickle for sure. I was at home today and my wife was teaching online as well as trying to sort countless issues (she's an assistant head).
"Have you seen you'll be doing a staggered return?" I yelled up the stairs at lunchtime. "Oh!" She replied. Where did you see that"? "Singletrack forum I think!"
I proposed the following in Early August…
Yep, I remember that.
I learnt **** all in secondary school apart from how all but two of my teachers were cockwombles, that authority figures were to be distrusted, that I could learn 2-3 years worth of information in the six months before my exams and that whilst I was shoved in the middle set for Maths that I was actually good at it.
I find myself in partial agreement with steve, even though he seems to have pissed a lot of you off. I reckon I could have forgone secondary completely and still ended up where I am today, but I was always one of those kids that did things purely for his own benefit in a bloody minded independent fashion - so maybe others wouldn't do so well with less formal schooling.
Me (exercise induced asthmatic) and Mrs K (Lupus) have both just had a text suggesting our Vaccination is coming soon. I’m 48 and a competitive cyclist, she likely can’t have it with the issue around allergies, I hope we can refuse it and it goes to a more needed couple of people than us!
So far all I heard was allergies and no mention of immunoglobulins.
I'd assumed they meant IgE which they usually mean or my mum (80) is screwed as well?
I find myself in partial agreement with steve, even though he seems to have pissed a lot of you off. I reckon I could have forgone secondary completely and still ended up where I am today.
Though that sounds like me (other than I was in the bottom set for maths) the more immediate concern is spreading the virus to vulnerable people and schools are winding up for XMAS so the damage is done.
It doesn't help matters when someone is saying teachers are grassing up students who have bruises either...sometimes a bruise is just a MTB accident.
TiReD
5. Test international arrivals within five days of arrival.
Out of interest why 5 days?
(Assuming we also closed up borders for "essential" travel only can't we test everyone on arrival?)
And sometimes Steve, a bruise is where a drunk parent is abusing their child. Teachers do an amazing job of watching over their children from my experience. They really care and have the protocols in place to alert the relevant experts when things go wrong.
Which they do.
Now I've been suckered into arguing.
I preferred this thread when we all sat in a circle and listened to the experts teaching us things.
Ranting and exclaiming 'madness' at the end of every post, doesn't really further my knowledge.
Love and hugs to you all this Christmas.
Staggered start? Mrs g secondary maths got home not been told/asked to prep online lessons for January and it takes 19 x longer to get stuff put online she will prob get email day before returning nice one Gav.. she can do it during the 5day superspread opportunity
Edit they have finished this afternoon 😁
Out of interest why 5 days?
Quarantine for 5 days (not 14) then release on a negative test due to incubation time of asymptomatic but transmission.
Given that i failed every exam i took i might as well not bothered with the last 4 years of schooling too. Extrapolate data from that tangential subset of 2 if ypu will.
The local ( to work) secondary was 1 of 2 closed in November, in the south. The school blamed the busses the kids used to bring them in from outlying areas as the school was covid secure.
Till dozens of them got covid and gave it to most of the teachers.
This is Hampshire, tier 2 and at home we are now in tier 3 as deaths doubled in a week.
I getting wobbles, had a covid nightmare where i couldnt breathe and wad in icu
On a bubble ventilation unit and fighting to catch my breath, i could hear the doctor telling nurses there was nothing else they could do as he loaded up a syringe with a viscous clear liquid from a glass vial with a silver metallic top.
At that point i woke up shaking with a racng heart beat. Actually took 15 mins or so to calm down with some 5-2 breathing techniques, lights on etc. Was like being a kid again when there weren't really monsters under the bed, now there are, but they're tiny, and I am 51.
Steve, you're probably just a natural small state libertarian socially and maybe fiscally slightly left like me? God knows why our ancestors decided to stick around here instead of getting on a boat to the States.
And sometimes Steve, a bruise is where a drunk parent is abusing their child.
But often it's not...
Now I’ve been suckered into arguing.
I preferred this thread when we all sat in a circle and listened to the experts teaching us things.
Don't then .
Love and hugs to you all this Christmas.
.. this is why I made the earlier comments. I should have let the last one slide but given we are killing people (I mean literally) IMHO we should be pretty clear why schools absolutely must stay open for the last week before XMAS hols and kids are forced to attend.
You'll excuse me if I point out on one side we have a bloke won't even admit who he fathered though cared so much as to infect his mistress and unborn child and on the other people who really care (whether misguided or not) and someone who's view of the state education system is good enough for the plebs but I can't may my nanny enough for her child to go private advised by someone who's idea of looking after his kids is bungling them in a car and driving 50 miles to test his eyesight. [sorry for the sarcastic way I'm saying it but ... ]
When they start singing from what sounds like the same hymn sheet I think that's enough to worry.
TiReD
Quarantine for 5 days (not 14) then release on a negative test due to incubation time of asymptomatic but transmission.
Ah sorry... yes that then makes complete sense like the rest.
If only there was a way to get the politicians to actually listen to the science...
edits:
As I have said before as a bystander/scientist (but not biological) ..it's a corona virus, wouldn't the default position be schools are a huge transmission pathway until conclusively proven otherwise?
As I have also said before it's like the politicians are demanding evidence against a reasonable orthodox working hypothesis and without it saying "so no proof then"
(All the way back to airborne transmission in March)
We knew all along it was a coronavirus albeit with higher serious complications and fatality.
Did you ever read the Columbia Accident Investigation Board Report?
This strikes me as having multiple parallels ..
One extract
At the MIT Engineering Systems Division symposium last year, Sheila Widnall gave an overview of her participation on the Columbia Accident Investigation Board (CAIB). One of my MITRE colleagues, C. Michael Howell, attended and wrote:
Of particular interest to me was her description of a key recurring problem at NASA: "normalizing the deviations they found". In her words, the unexpected became the expected which became the accepted. She used foam coming off the storage tank as just an illustration of a systemic problem.
Foam was not supposed to come off; the first few times it did, NASA investigated this as something
they did not understand and that should not happen. But as time went on and foam fell of without any safety problems evident, it became viewed as a post flight refurbishment issue - even though it was still not understood. When it was finally implicated in the loss of an orbiter, the initial reaction was "that's crazy; we lose foam on a lot of flights w/out any problem."
From the report, the CAIB started by focusing on the technical problems with foam adhesion, but went on to state very clearly the role it believes the NASA enterprise played in the space shuttle disaster:
In the Board’s view, NASA’s organizational culture and structure had as much to do with this accident as the External Tank foam. Organizational culture refers to the values, norms, beliefs, and practices that govern how an institution functions. At the most basic level, organizational culture defines the assumptions that employees make as they carry out their work. It is a powerful force that can persist through reorganizations and the reassignment of key personnel [CAIB Report, 2003, p.177]
http://www.caib.us/default.html
Mass testing in schools has been necessary for months,
I'm pretty sure Boris said that it was a prerequisite for schools reopening....
Cheers @rollindoughnut. I’m not suggesting schools should remain open for the minority of children that get abused / ill treated. Just saying them being open does help them.
Not sure why Steve is suggesting teachers are a grass and kids have bruises from falling off bikes. Amazingly teachers although not trained in medical forensics are often able to identify when a kid fell off their bike.
It looks a bit like Steve is just trolling.
MoreCash
I’m pretty sure Boris said that it was a prerequisite for schools reopening…
He said many things... we have more than enough PPE... we lost the email ... its a long list.
The common theme is not only have these failed to happen but they have been actively prevented from happening until it becomes like the missing Dolphins (So long and thanks for all the fish).
So far all I heard was allergies and no mention of immunoglobulins.
I’d assumed they meant IgE which they usually mean or my mum (80) is screwed as well?
In a basic sense, the way SLE works it that you can be allergic to everything until you know you're not.
It looks a bit like Steve is just trolling.
I spent 1/2d a week for 2 years with idiots with dolls who wanted me to make up stories.
I've no idea if they really thought they were doing something "good" or simply wanted to be proven correct but I'm pretty sure they were more screwed up than I was.
In a basic sense, the way SLE works it that you can be allergic to everything until you know you’re not.
From what I'd seen (admittedly just news) this was being put as a histamine (IgE) reaction (or perhaps that was the impression they left??)
At least for me my IgE is tame.. it's my IgA and IgG like to party.
oakleymuppet / singletrackmind
I agree but also we are dragging off thread for a very important topic.
I have to stop typing now... keeping kiddo awake... but can start a thread tomorrow if you want to share similar experiences and the scars it left.
but for now I'll stop typing as it's killing me doing it slowly/quietly.
wouldn’t the default position be schools are a huge transmission pathway until conclusively proven otherwise?
That was always the null hypothesis from influenza. The difference is that influenza has considerable morbidity in children, but SARS-CoV-2 does not.
But you have to control spread.
But you have to control spread.
Or you keep denying that the spread occurs in (state) schools.
You can see why this term has resulted in a lot of angry people… and, remember, this government did A LOT of work preparing the public to blame teachers (and their unions) before we even got to September. I think most people saw through it… but then it might just be that I do not know enough of the people that propaganda communication was aimed at.
Heck, I just called my cousin in Nelson (couple of hours ago) who was saying they were considering going to a Tier 2 area for XMAS (to his son my great Nephew?? is that the correct term). FFS, he’s a solicitor and I’ve never known him be so complacent about breaking the law!
Can I suggest you read the actual legislation? It might not be a sensible thing to do but it's certainly not against the law. There are absolutely no restrictions on travel inside England.
The headteacher on Newsnight right now is excellent.
Apropos some of the earlier talk, and some of the things that could have been done in relation to International travel, i have a Tale of One Friend & Two Cities.
Hong Kong vs. London
Just to provide a bit of context, and deflect some of the more obvious questions; yes, this is one persons experience. He moved to Hong Kong in the early 90's and was there way before the handover. He moved to Shanghai after '97. You can't become a Chinese citizen, like you can become a British citizen just by living here, unless you are ethnically Chinese. As a foreigner you can only legally live in China on a Work Visa. Work Visas in China are a moveable feast - it probably has little or nothing to do with how much of a donation you give to your local official - but they are always time limited. The only variable is the amount of time - there are all sorts of Ts & Cs, typically framed as being valid for x amount of years for y amount of months and z amount of renewal.
Bottom line is that all foreigners who live and work in China have to periodically leave and re-enter the country to fulfil the terms of their Visa. Most of them fly to Singapore for the weekend, have a weekend jolly, then fly back in until the next time.
This has served everyone well until now.
Are you still with me?
So in March, my friend became concerned that the impending travel ban would mean that he would contravene the terms of his Visa if he was trapped in Shanghai, so he had to get out. He took a train to Hong Kong, where he has Residency - One Country, two Systems, still, just about... - knowing that he wouldn't get back into China anytime soon.
So, arriving in Hong Kong he was-
- detained - given a C-19 test and had to wait for three hours until the result came back - negative - he was given three options that were basically £this hotel, ££this hotel, or £££this hotel, for their two-week quarantine package - then he was physically taken to £this hotel, where he sat in his room for two weeks, eating meals that were dropped outside his door, and watched TV in his box. After two weeks they took another test, he waited another three hours, and when it came back negative he was a free man.
So he went to buy his ticket to the UK.
On the plane he filled out a form with contact details.
So, arriving at London Heathrow he was-
- walking through customs, walking out of the Terminal, and taking the train home.
Australia is similar, arrive on a plane and off to a hotel for quarantine you go. In Kazakhstan you need a PCR 72 hours prior to arrival and then you are good to travel around freely.
I'm currently trying to arrange test and release, its an absolute shambles, no one has tests in stock, there have been testing areas in airports for months which are unused. Conversely, when arriving arriving in Istanbul you go through customs, get PCR test done in the airport for 25 euro, 3 hours later you have a result.
My questions are, why can't the government organise a system remotely fit for purpose and why do private PCR tests costs so much money?
*I travel for work not 8 week long ski trips
When you have an airport PCR and have to wait 3 hours, where do you go to wait? If you're herded into any kind of indoor area with others and one of them tests +, does that mean you get a - PCR and then a message telling you to self isolate because of potential contact with an infected person?
At Istanbul, you are free to walk around the airport but they are aimed at pre flight testing rather than quarantine.
Can I suggest you read the actual legislation? It might not be a sensible thing to do but it’s certainly not against the law. There are absolutely no restrictions on travel inside England.
Not quite correct your tier allows you around, no beer with chips if you are going to 2 from 3.
New Zealand plan to provide vaccines to everyone on Tokelau, Tuvalu, Samoa, Tonga, and Cook Islands.
My questions are, why can’t the government organise a system remotely fit for purpose and why do private PCR tests costs so much money?
You seem like someone unfamiliar with Boris Johnson which is pretty much the answer to both these questions.
I hope we can refuse it and it goes to a more needed couple of people than us!
Having spent nine months now wiped out with long covid, I wouldn't dismiss the opportunity for early vaccination without thinking it through fully. I know four other previously healthy, fit, active people - proper fit, not 'I run 5km twice a week' - in a similar boat. These are friend from bofore covid. Being fit and relatively young isn't much of a consolation if you can barely walk up the stairs for six months.
I wouldn’t dismiss the opportunity for early vaccination without thinking it through fully.
Very much this - it's been offered to you for a reason ahead of some others. Bear in mind that as more vulnerable people get protection from the vaccine, we will ease restrictions so more people could potentially catch it - and the complications of long Covid or just being ****ing unlucky - even if deaths among the vulnerable are very low.
The northern beaches outbreak in Sydney is growing - another 10 new locally acquired cases today (28 in total now).
They are obviously very aggressively track-and-tracing, there is almost an hourly list of venues/trains/shops with dates and times, the message being: if you were also there at these times, go and get tested
Visitors to the following venues should self isolate for 14 days even if they receive a negative result
Coast Palm Beach Cafe, Barrenjoey Rd, Palm Beach, on Sunday, December 13, 10:00am to 11:00am
Avalon Bowlo (bowling club), 4 Bowling Green Ln, Avalon Beach, on Sunday, December 13, 5:00pm to 7:00pm and Tuesday, December 15, 3:00pm to 5:00pm
Sneaky Grind Cafe, 3/48 Old Barrenjoey Rd, Avalon Beach, on Monday, December 14, 9:30am to 11:00am
Palm Beach female change rooms on Sunday, December 13, 9:00am to 9:15am
Avalon Beach RSL Club, Friday December 11, All day until closed
Bangkok Sidewalk Restaurant, 1/21-23 Old Barrenjoey Rd, Avalon Beach, on Monday, December 14, 7:00pm to 8:00pm
Barramee Thai Massage and Spa, 4/42-44 Old Barrenjoey Rd, Avalon Beach, on Monday, December 14, 2:00pm to 3:30pm
Palm Beach female change rooms on Sunday, December 13, 9:00am to 9:15am
The Avalon RSL at any time on December 11
The Penrith RSL Club on December 13 from 1:00pm to 6:00pm
The Kirribilli Club on December 14 from 12:00pm to 3:00pm
They have genotyped the virus that caused the cluster - and they recon it’s come from the US. People suspect that it might have come from flight/cabin crew, who aren’t subject to as-strict quarantine rules on arrival.
**** ing beaches are closed! Disaster!