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to help pay the legal bills of an independently wealthy former First Minister to fight a legal challenge against accusations of sexual misconduct.
You do know that's not the case?
#forFairness
Yes I do Scotroutes. I perhaps did not clearly intimate at the start, but I did mention his right to challenge the 'process' by which I meant challenging the handling and the complaints procedure. I do realise that this slipped at the end.
The point still stands, given his position and wealth, and sensitivity involved surrounding his case and allegations, he should have been able to fund it himself. I am sure most donators would never previously have crowd funded famous alpha males challenging complaints procedures in relation to sexual misconduct allegations. Would the Labour leader (the guy......Leonard? or something) have had the public jumping to his defence if it had happened to him? Would they ****!!.
It is a brass neck, but he is well known for having one. I've donated my fair share to the independence campaign over the years and previously donated to the SNP when they were going looking to mount a legal challenge over the leaders debates on tv as I thought it wasn't fair. I've no idea how much his case will cost and whether or not he is looking for the full amount via donations but it is a bit like that couple who were caught crowdfunding vet fees for their pet (dog or cat, can't remember) when they were worth a fortune. Doesn't sit right with me but each to their own, some people have trouble seperating the man from the overall movement I suppose.
I guess that, had he known this was coming, he could have held back sone of the over £400,000 he has raised/donated to various charities .
£90k and rising
#forFairness
Firstly I should say I have not funded, and have no intention of funding Mr Salmond‘s case BUT I would vigorously fight for his right to crowd fund his issue and hold the government to account.
given his position and wealth, and sensitivity involved surrounding his case and allegations, he should have been able to fund it himself.
Ive no idea how wealthy he actually is, but how much cash would you need in your pocket to consider blowing something like £100k to prove a point of principle? Is there some reason why his position (he’s not even an MSP now) makes bringing a judicial review easier than you or I? If there is, does a high profile person crowd funding it, make it easier for you or I to believe we could bring a matter we care about under review?
it is as much an enditement on how the legal system works that the ability to finance a case means typically only the wealthy and connected would consider standing up to government procedures.
Just to make it clear, this money is not for the defence of his case, but to challenge an unfair and unjust procedure.
Which purely by coincidence was just brought into being, and he was the first person star chambered by it. That it is such a remarkable co-incidence is why the funds are pouring in.
At the end of it, everyone who would have been subjected to this unjust procedure will benefit. And that is why some of his opponents have chimed in on his side.
Too bloody true the Scottish public wouldn't jump to the defence of Leonard, why would they? His job is to keep Scotland in thrall to Westminster, but I'm sure his pals down south would help out.
Now over £90,000...
Firstly I should say I have not funded, and have no intention of funding Mr Salmond‘s case BUT I would vigorously fight for his right to crowd fund his issue and hold the government to account.
What he said because of this
it is as much an enditement on how the legal system works that the ability to finance a case means typically only the wealthy and connected would consider standing up to government procedures.
Although I do worry that some of the support is based on whose side your on rather than any/the unjustness of the scenario.
Hopefully the truth will out on this one whatever it is. Although if the truth is to just throw shit at people then I suspect it’s already done it’s job.
Indeed pm. This was a bit of a huge away
Too bloody true the Scottish public wouldn’t jump to the defence of Leonard, why would they? His job is to keep Scotland in thrall to Westminster, but I’m sure his pals down south would help out.
piemonster
...Although I do worry that some of the support is based on whose side your on rather than any/the unjustness of the scenario....
Of course it is. You surely don't expect independence supporters to chip in for someone opposed to it.
Rightly or wrongly, this affair is regarded as a targeted attack on Salmond with a specially crafted new regulation as the weapon.
Some sort of attack on him has been expected since he went on RT, and lo and behold, here is an attack done in such a way as to do the maximum damage his reputation.
If there had been a fair process, I very much doubt he would be getting much in the way of crowdfunding. The level of funding demonstrates the level of trust the Scottish public have in him.
If it turns out he is actually guilty of misconduct he will have done himself some impressive self-harm, whereas a mea culpa would have been minimised the damage. I believe he is smart enough - or cunning (for thm) - to be well aware of that, and would have already held his hand up if that was the case.
Now I wonder if it will hit the £100,000 mark - today or tomorrow?
Well its working.
Everyones looking at "the process" and no-one looking at the accusations.
2 women, apparently SG employees, have come forward and accused the top politician in Scotland of some form of harassment while he was first minister.
If "the process" allows the basic facts to be established (were both the people actually there at the relevant time?) and then passes the information to the relevant authorities, I can't see what hes complaining about?
WRT Salmonds claims, Leslie Evans says that;
His statement contains significant inaccuracies which will be addressed in those court proceedings.
So, for now, lets remember that even if "the process" was imperfect, the accusations still exist.
They were made against someone who is no longer first minister, but whose party are still in power. Thats not an easy thing to do.
Honestly, if "the process" is one that doesn't allow complaints like this to be swept under the carpet for anyones political convenience, then at least some part of it is working right.
In my nightmares I can see "but the process" becoming the zoomer version of "but her emails". 🙂
The comments on the funding page are illuminating. Those on WoS far more so
Of course it is. You surely don’t expect independence supporters to chip in for someone opposed to it.
No I don’t expect that, but they should if it meant an innocent person gets their name cleared. At least in a world of crowd funded legal defence.
Politicial affiliations shouldn’t be a factor.
Double post
epicyclo,
Was it MI5, the deep state or aliens?
Maybe the whole Westminster harassment scandal was set up just so that the Scottish Government would improve the way in which they deal with claims of harassment, just to get at Salmond?
Wow, how deep does the rabbithole go!
<JHJ>
Salmond harassed staff (allegedly) 2013
Salmond got job on Putins propaganda channel Nov 2017
Westminster harassment scandal Jan 2018
SG updates harassment process to trap Salmond
MWA HA HA HA HA etc.
</JHJ>
To be fair to the deep state, they should have been be bright enough to notice the fact that Salmond taking a job at RT was the last straw for his integrity for anyone with sense (including many in the SNP).
Nothing else beyond what hes done to himself should be necessary.
Of course it is. You surely don’t expect independence supporters to chip in for someone opposed to it.
I thought it wasn't about the man or the allegations but about the procedure. Make your mind up.
One of the so called journalists in the media in Scotland called Wings a hate fest. Well I hate all your lies and propaganda so maybe this is the nearest to a true statement they have ever made in their whole careers. People with no professional or personal integrity. Why don’t you just pissof to London?
Page 1
at least we haven’t had the victim blaming like the other sex pests
Guardian take seems reasonable: link
Also, epicyclo, are you really saying that all of the people contributing to Salmond have looked at the process in detail and decided that its unfair?
I guess that, had he known this was coming, he could have held back sone of the over £400,000 he has raised/donated to various charities .
He's had since March to prepare.
Remind me how much Jimmy Savile donated to charity. Now, does that have any bearing as to what he got up to behind closed doors? That you keep bringing this up just shows how closed minded you are about this, you've already made your mind up that he's innocent, if you hadn't then you wouldn't be making such daft "damage limitation" statements.
That you keep bringing this up just shows how closed minded you are about this, you’ve already made your mind up
"Keep bringing this up"? Where? Seems to me like you're pure ragin' about this. You really need to take a chill pill.
£92k
#forFairness
“Real Scots are behind you Alex,”
Is great on so many levels
You've mentioned his charitable donations on more than one occasion already. I know it's STW where the majority seem incapable of reading but some of us do 😉
As for "pure ragin'", er aye, okay. Personally I couldn't care less what you think beyond what I wrote which is hardly the stuff of pure rage.
Aye, some people saying lets see the outcome of the court case (and any investigation).
Others saying its a conspiracy organised by MI5, the deep state and tunnocks eaters.
I wonder who's ragin' hardest :O)
Things that are unrelated to the truth of the allegations against Alex:
-The amount of money he can raise from crowdfunding
-The amount of money he has given to charity,
-His average turd length.
Maybe we should wait for a conviction before gathering information for a mitigation plea?
Maybe we should wait for a trial before talking about conviction. Otherwise you're as bad as those you slate.
Maybe we should wait for a verdict before speculating about someone who has not at this moment been charged with an offence.
Maybe we should stop conflating crowdfunding to pay for a judicial review of an internal civil service investigation with the legal costs incurred in defending a person should a case come to court
eat_the-pudding
epicyclo,
Was it MI5, the deep state or aliens?...
It is well documented that MI5 have interfered in the affairs of the SNP previously and have had agents planted within it.
Those of us who remember the 2014 independence referendum, also remember every dirty trick the British state pulled against us then.
It's fairly obvious that there is a lot of pressure on the SNP coming from the independence movement to dissolve the Union, so some sort of attack on influential people within the movement has been anticipated.
I have no idea if MI5 is involved, but if it looks like a turd, smells like a turd, tastes like a ... (no, scrap that bit), and comes from an organ of the British state, then there's pretty good odds it is a turd.
And obviously much of Scotland is smelling a turd, hence the level of contributions.
£95,000 and rising...
I thought this was about fighting injustice?
epicyclo,
At the heart of this are at least 3 people (2 women, one man). Their interactions are now the subject of investigations by various people. We're waiting for the outcome and trying to ignore the fluff.
In your head, a relatively small group of people contributing money to a crowdfund is apparently a very significant part of this process.
Its not.
I'll repeat what I said earlier.
There's little (by MI5 or anyone) that could be done to Salmond to make him a bigger laughing stock than he has made himself already.
If it comes to that, Sturgeon has better reason to want him to shut up at the moment than just about anyone else. If he ever gets invited to Bute house again he should probably avoid standing near any candlesticks in the library.
It is well documented that MI5 have interfered in the affairs of the SNP previously and have had agents planted within it.
Is it? Where is that documentation then? YouTube and Facebook evidence does not count...
You’ve mentioned his charitable donations on more than one occasion already. I know it’s STW where the majority seem incapable of reading but some of us do
Sorry, I'm getting on a bit, my memory is failing and my wife does tell me I've a habit of repeating myself. Perhaps you could help by pointing out the previous occasions I've mentioned these charitable donations?
KTHXBYE
My mistake, it was epicyclo, to be fair it was all getting a bit samey.
KTHXGRWTH****UP
<span style="text-decoration: underline;">franksinatra</span>
Is it? Where is that documentation then?
We'll probably have to wait 25 years or so for any current activity to be released, so there's only older stuff available.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/files-prove-that-mi5-spied-on-snp-1-1423283
Oh, and now at £98,000...
Those of us who remember the 2014 independence referendum, also remember every dirty trick the British state pulled against us then.
I remember it well. I can't remember loads of dirty tricks, unless of course the dirty tricks were to highlight the lack of any credible economic plan for the country. Which is the primary reason they didn't get my vote.
I do remember however that this didn't seem to make a jolt of difference to those who voted for independence, so ingrained in them was their loathing of the union.
Some of the stuff I read from the pro independence campaign would have been funny, if it hadn't been borderline racist/hate speech
I remember watching the results coming in.. And the look on the faces of the hate filled mob when they realised they had lost. Salmond's misery was particularly satisfying.
The man is a vile loathsome individual, wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's done what he has been accused of. Doubt it will even matter to his hoards of followers however.
BTW.. Why does epicycle keep updating us with the figure of how much he's crowd funded so far...? It's absolutely no surprise that he's managed to rake it in from his supporters.. Not sure what the point you are trying to make is? Do you not think we know he's popular?
hate speech
Oh the irony
Scotroutes...you couldn't make it up eh? Oh no wait; TPbiker did!
Oh the irony
To be fair you came pretty close to hate speech once you realised you’d been riding for an hour with a flat!
Oh and Upper Loch Rannoch fire roads?
Why does epicycle keep updating us with the figure of how much he’s crowd funded so far…?
It gives the Dependentistas something to froth about. 🙂
If you think personal politics has a place in this case then that says a lot more about you than us.
This whole thread is about personal politics dude.
The thread may be about personal politics but the case is about two potential victims claiming that they were sexually abused and one man's attempt to make himself the victim.
Thanks for that.
This whole thread is about personal politics dude
Well it should be about how a public figure has been accused of sexual misconduct and attacks the confidential process that is meant to allow these complaints to be brought in private. Sir John Elvidge's comments highlight some of the problems that existed and don't exactly help Salmond.
Unlike other #metoo complaints, these haven't been put on instagram, they haven't made some big speech and they aren't seeking damages. They appear to have waited until a new process was in place to deal with the many shortcomings of how they were dealt with in the past.
Salmond has tried to circumvent and shortcut that process, he has tried to gain direct access to the complainants and he has failed. He has tried to do thing the old boys way, which has rightly come in for criticism. Perhaps with a female Permanent Secretary and a female FM, the process is getting robust enough to do what it always should have done in both Holyrood and Westminster - protect the (alleged) victims and not the politicians.
£100k
#forFairness
And we've not even started on #SNPcivilwar yet. That's giving me lots of LOLs on Twitter.
I remember it well. I can’t remember loads of dirty tricks, unless of course the dirty tricks were to highlight the lack of any credible economic plan for the country.
Then your memory is clearly corrupted.
A special thank you to everyone who contributed and left such kind messages. The petition for Judicial Review has now been served and all of you helped make that possible. We have now closed the fund with double the amount aimed for raised in double quick time. Every penny of surplus funds, which will be substantial in the event of a successful Judicial Review, will be distributed to good causes in Scotland and beyond. Thank you all again.
Alex
#SNPcivilwar
Hadn't seen that one. Pretty good stuff 🙂