I've been on loads of flights to the ME and they often have a prayer area set up with a curtain around it. Everyone prays in silence, no one shouts. This is either a set up or a very extreme case.
squirrelking - MemberBelieve that if you like but you ARE extremely bigoted. Bigotry isn't a silent thing you know...
Does that mean a person with intolerance towards others etc is considered a bigot?
How about a person who is intolerance towards a bigot? Isn't s/he a bigot as well? Are you a bigot? 😆
pictonroad - MemberChekw is like most people I know outside of Europe, they don't have any handwringing guilt about an awful past like I do and they call it as they see it.
We don't dwell on the past because there is no need to. Life is already hard enough for many over there. I am referring to South East Asia btw, so we deal with things our own ways good or bad. A bit difficult for Europeans to comprehend. 🙄
p/s: oh ya, if you stick to the definition of bigot then basically you are also calling most people on STW as bigots. 😆
[quote=CaptainFlashheart ]I had to sit next to a scouser on a flight once.
At times like that a copy of the Sun comes in handy.
big·ot noun \?bi-g?t\ : a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)
Dwelling on the past, no need but being aware of it? Certainly. How can you learn from the mistakes of others if you don't give history its due place?
And please, don't condescend to me with your "Europeans wouldn't comprehend" nonsense. You know nothing about me, what I do or don't understand or the experiences of my friends and family.
I have no "handwringing guilt" about the past. I'm not responsible for any atrocities or otherwise so see no reason why I should be. I just prefer to look at history, look at the background of what was happening and actually learn from what happened. If this rant was about Jews I dare say the situation would be very different.
Why is anti-semitism frowned on yet muslims are considered fair game?
Back in 1980 I flew into Riyadh. There was a burned out wreck of an airliner still sitting at the end of the runway. The pilot had miraculously managed to land it after some bloke on the Haj who came from the back of beyond and had never seen a plane let alone fly on one decided it would be OK to fire up the Primus in the aisle to make a brew. I would rather be on a plane with someone praying loudly.
I used to quite like prayer time when I was out in Saudi. Sitting on the balcony listening to the various mosques cranking it up to 11. It was just part of the scene. Mind you I remember waking up on day 1 out there thinking "that milkman's making a lot of noise". Honestly I did.
Slight hijack folks. Someone is wrong on internet. 😆
squirrelking - Member
Dwelling on the past, no need but being aware of it? Certainly. How can you learn from the mistakes of others if you don't give history its due place?
I learned Chinese/Asian history if that helps then started to have keen interest in European/Middle Eastern history but generally I like history. Funny thing is that I find a lot of commonality amongst them only to be expressed in various ways.
In a way, the past is built into us so to speak or put it this way they/we etc can see you coming ... 😆
And please, don't condescend to me with your "Europeans wouldn't comprehend" nonsense. You know nothing about me, what I do or don't understand or the experiences of my friends and family.
There. You have just contradicted your own views by opposing others. Do you know them well?
If this rant was about Jews I dare say the situation would be very different.
No different. Human are parasitic oxygen abusers regardless or with no exception.
Why is anti-semitism frowned on yet muslims are considered fair game?
I am fair so I threat them equally as parasitic oxygen abusers so get that right will you.
😈
p/s: oh ya where do you come from?
I'd rather sit next to a loud and enthusiastic religious hobbyist than someone who films in portrait.
😉
I used to quite like prayer time when I was out in Saudi. Sitting on the balcony listening to the various mosques cranking it up to 11. It was just part of the scene. Mind you I remember waking up on day 1 out there thinking "that milkman's making a lot of noise". Honestly I did.
Something similar happened to me in Egypt, took me a few days to work out why I was always waking up at 6!
I experienced something very similar on a flight to new york the week after 9-11.
It was one of the first flights from London and in between doing prayers on the floor space in front of his business class seat the guy spent the rest of the flight chanting quite loudly as he read from his holy book.
I think it's fair to say that given the tragic events of the week before the passengers and crew around him were in tatters by the end of the flight and I rather suspect that he knew this and enjoyed seeing the effect his behaviour was having on others.
Ok just to clear something up - are some sects/varieties obliged to do it out loud? Why is this bloke doing this? Is it common in other situations?
Ok just to clear something up - are some sects/varieties obliged to do it out loud? Why is this bloke doing this? Is it common in other situations?
Muslims always pray out loud, but there's no reason for them to shout it.
Edit: not always, depends on the prayer. [url= http://islamqa.info/en/67672 ]But often[/url].
Bit noisy ain't he....
I think this must be a set up, they don't pray like this normally...
Where did he do his ritual cleansing? Did he clean the area around him? How did he know which way was Mecca?
Ok, I'm just being pedantic. But this really does seem more like a set up. Unless he was a complete twonk there is no need for him to be so loud, other than to cause a scene.
Bit noisy ain't he....
I think this must be a set up, they don't pray like this normally...
Where did he do his ritual cleansing? Did he clean the area around him? How did he know which way was Mecca?
Ok, I'm just being pedantic. But this really does seem more like a set up. Unless he was a complete twonk there is no need for him to be so loud, other than to cause a scene.
And how did he know where the sun was, if it was actually the right time of day?
But yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you - he's a ****.
I'd probably open with, "Excuse me, do you mind not making that silly noise?"
And how did he know where the sun was, if it was actually the right time of day?
ME airlines show East on an LCD screen in the prayer area. Also, all hotel rooms in the ME have an arrow pointing toward Mecca in a corner of the ceiling...
Ok just to clear something up - are some sects/varieties obliged to do it out loud? Why is this bloke doing this? Is it common in other situations?
They just mutter them on planes, it's very common on ME flights.
honestly?
I think it's nice - We travel for a number of different reasons, but I think in the main we should expect new and exotic experiences.. The world is a very big and diverse place, and I think it's very arrogant to award our own take on it with too much credence
This guy may have been a bit anti-social to our pathetically insecure and uptight British pallette, but I think it's lovely
I'm a big fan of any outrageous form of self expression.. 😀
If he'd woken up my sleeping toddlers though, I would have issued and carried out an unofficial but very immediate and terminal fatwa, utilising plastic airline cutlery and some hasty guesswork regarding the intricacies of human butchery
If he'd woken up my sleeping toddlers though, I would have issued and carried out an unofficial but very immediate and terminal fatwa, utilising plastic airline cutlery and some hasty guesswork regarding the intricacies of human butchery
Amen to that. I've had no end of overnight flights ruined by children screaming for hours on end.....
I'd have told him to shut up. He'd have no doubt claimed it was his right to express his religious (delusion) faith but I'd have expressed my atheistic right not to have to listen to it.
One day religion will die out. Just a shame I won't be here to see it.
I'd have told him to shut up.
Depends where it was. If it was on a ME airline then I'd have just accepted it as part of their culture, of which I was a guest. It it was on an Easy Jet flight from Stansted to Glasgow, I probably would have said something....
'Why is anti-semitism frowned on yet muslims are considered fair game?'
Arabs are semites and many Arabs are Muslims. Judaism is a religion not a race. I think it's fair game to have a pop at all religions, look at what fun they're delivering on the world and each other at the moment. Why be tolerant? All that does is to let people off the hook.
Why be tolerant?
Next time you're in Saudi Arabia, I suggest you tell them what you think of their religion....
This guy may have been a bit anti-social to our pathetically insecure and uptight British pallette
Being woken up by shouting is never pleasant no matter what country you're from. It's nothing ot do with insecurity and being uptight!
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Next time you're in Saudi Arabia, I suggest you tell them what you think of their religion....
Yes but you are making a good case for intolerance if you are inferring that expressing an intolerant view in that country will beget violence. Is that the point you are trying to make?
Depends where it was. If it was on a ME airline then I'd have just accepted it as part of their culture, of which I was a guest. It it was on an Easy Jet flight from Stansted to Glasgow, I probably would have said something....
Apparently it was a Philippines airline flight and the Arabic writing on the exit is because they lease the aircraft from the ME.
It would have been nice if everyone had joined in enthusiastically- don't know the words? never mind just have a go as loud as you can.
Out of order and deffo provocative IMHO there is no need to do it that loud on a plane with sleeping people. It can be said internally.
I find it hard to believe they did not know they were being an inconsiderate nob and doing it to annoy the infidel tbh.
Usual religious attention seeker type, very annoying.
I'm surprised the cabin crew didn't ask him to put a lid on it, screaming out loud like that must be a bit disconcerting for the other passengers. Aren't there rules for this sort of stuff?
It reinforces my view that religions (all) are just bonkers, yes even moderate ones.
I was once on a flight back from NY and I was sitting next to a Hasidic couple. They told me about their 15 kids and when I raised my eyebrows they told me about their friends who have 25. Anyway, next the bloke got up and formed a minyan near the loos with about 8 others and a copy of the Torah and wailed out prayers for about 10 minutes. It was bizarre and a bit disconcerting (did they know something we didn't?) I can't help thinking if it was 9 football supporters singing out then the airline staff would have acted. At least their gods are real.
Still, it's not ALL bad news. Chew little termites, chew...
[url= http://www.salon.com/2014/06/12/atheism_explodes_in_saudi_arabia_where_just_talking_about_atheism_is_illegal_partner/ ]Barmy Wahabbi[/url]
Judaism is a religion not a race
Interesting statement. I dare say you could have a whole new thread; nay, big chunk of the internet to debate that one.
As to the original video: we don't know the contest behind it. It maight have been deliberate retailiatin for somthing the 'sleeper' had done or said, or just a dickhead being a dickead. Looks somewhat set-up anyway.
molgrips - MemberOk just to clear something up - are some sects/varieties obliged to do it out loud? Why is this bloke doing this? Is it common in other situations?
They can pray in silent. Period.
Yes, only those with extreme or fanatical views would do such indirect provocation.
stoffel - Member
Judaism is a religion not a raceInteresting statement. I dare say you could have a whole new thread; nay, big chunk of the internet to debate that one.
Debate or not they are a marked race wherever they go (according to my mates). I am still not sure why this is the case. I have to research the history of Egypt because they (Jewish) come from Egypt. I think there is something to do with the definition of my God is stronger than your God thing ...
As to the original video: we don't know the contest behind it. It maight have been deliberate retailiatin for somthing the 'sleeper' had done or said, or just a dickhead being a dickead. Looks somewhat set-up anyway.
If it is a deliberate retaliation then he has just made a mockery of his own belief I mean, cummon! Cummon! Does he have to shout at 35k feet above ground nearer to god? Ya, keep shouting at that height and see if you even annoy your own god.
God please strike down this parasitic oxygen abuser on this plane whenever he starts shouting in your ears at 35k above sea level. 😆
I am still not sure why this is the case.
I never really understood why the Jewish were so reviled either. They always seemed quite froody to me, and they have the best dress code. Drive through Cheetham Hill on a Saturday, place looks like a Darkman convention.
He should have done it in the toilet where that sort of religious crap belongs.
Cougar - ModeratorDrive through Cheetham Hill on a Saturday, place looks like a Darkman convention.
Post of the day.
Cougar - ModeratorI am still not sure why this is the case.
I never really understood why the Jewish were so reviled. They always seemed quite froody to me, and they have the best dress code. Drive through Cheetham Hill on a Saturday, place looks like a Darkman convention.
When I am out with my Jewish colleague walking on the high street I always play the "spot the female Jew" with him. Yes, I do. Orthodox man is easy to spot because they stand out from the crowd. The weird thing is that he either play dumb or he cannot even spot the female Jew as well as I do. [b]Or ya, he started the game first of "spot the [u]North Korean[/u]" by pointing his finger at me because according to him "we" all look the same. [/b] So now I play spot the Jew in the crowd. I can bet you I can spot them in the crowd. 😆
I never really understood why the Jewish were so reviled either. They always seemed quite froody to me, and they have the best dress code. Drive through Cheetham Hill on a Saturday, place looks like a Darkman convention.
So now I play spot the Jew in the crowd.
I assume you're referring to the Ultra Orthodox (Hasidic) communitiy. You are aware that they only represent a small minority of Jews in the UK/worldwide, and that most Jews look 'like anybody else'?
I reccomend watching this. It's utterly fascinating.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Story-Jews-Simon-Schama/dp/B00BEYWW4I?tag=chrome03-21
molgrips - Member
This guy may have been a bit anti-social to our pathetically insecure and uptight British pallette
Being woken up by shouting is never pleasant no matter what country you're from. It's nothing ot do with insecurity and being uptight!
LOL.. you've illustrated the mentality beautifully there Mol 😆
Steven Rose, Prof of biology at the OU (and jewish), claims that it's a nonsense to see judaism as a race as when tested they have their greatest genetic links with their local population, wherever that might be. From a biological point of view, 'race' is a pretty useless concept anyway.
"All humans have 99.8% of their genes in common. Of the remaining 0.2%, 85% can be found in any ethnic group, and ‘racial’ differences account of only 9% of the 0.2%, which is 0.012% difference in genetic material (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). Quite a bit of this ‘racial’ variation is unrelated to physical appearance. For example, when in many human groups adults lack the enzyme lactase, which is necessary for digesting milk. Following this criterion, North Europeans must be classified together with Arabs and some West African peoples including the Fulani, while South Europeans must be grouped along with most Africans and East Asians. The classification of humanity into races, based on physical appearance, is arbitrary and scientifically uninteresting. The study of race thus belongs to the anthropology of power and ideology, not to the study of cultural variation."
‘Small Places, Large Issues’ Thomas Hylland Erikson (2001)
That's interesting, BillMc, and also possibly quite contentious with other people who might argue that 'race' cannot be simply expressed in terms of genetics, but must also involve culture and history. I find the wholse subject fascinating. I have many Jewish friends who are atheists, and I just can't get my head around that idea!
stoffel - Member
I reccomend watching this. It's utterly fascinating.http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Story-Jews-Simon-Schama/dp/B00BEYWW4I?tag=chrome03-21
Watched the entire episode of it because I was trying to understand Judaism, Jewish people and their way of life but I was trying to find out why they are hated to be honest. Very interesting programme.
But the real debate is the definition of god that started the conflict between the Egypt Pharaohs and the Jewish people, where the latter got expelled. I think the latter was redefining god into one creator god overtaking that of the Pharaohs.
BillMC - Member
The study of race thus belongs to the anthropology of power and ideology, not to the study of cultural variation
Nahh ... I called my Jewish colleague a bacon loving middle eastern person. Yes, he loves bacon.
I assume you're referring to the Ultra Orthodox (Hasidic) communitiy. You are aware that they only represent a small minority of Jews in the UK/worldwide, and that most Jews look 'like anybody else'?
I do, but then the joke doesn't work.
The original (serious) point still stands though; I'm sure there's some sort of history to it, probably centred around some carpenter from a couple of millennia ago rolled in with a spot of land war or something, but I really don't understand why the Jewish are "hated" by some. (EDIT: I'll check out the link, ta.)
Indeed, it's not something I've ever come across as happening. Whether that's just environmental or not I don't know (ie, I don't live in an area with a large Jewish presense as far as I'm aware). Does anti-Semitism actually happen in the UK to any great extent?
Cougar - Moderator
Does anti-Semitism actually happen in the UK to any great extent?
In a multicultural society you get plenty of anti-this or anti-that so the answer is yes.
Put it this way, if people don't anti-this I am sure they will find something new to anti. It's the nature of the parasitic oxygen abusers.
The Jewish people are generally hardworking and successful at whatever they choose to do, they are well represented in science, the professions, business and arts. That is where the hatred stems from in my opinion, they are a successful, coherent group and a minority - That makes them an easy target for the jealous, it's that simple. I also know a number of Atheistic Jews (self described) who maintain their jewish heritage but don't believe in god, im not sure being jewish has to include religion.
