[Closed] What's so good about Apple stuff?

What's so bad about apple? I guess people want devices for different purposes and want different things out of them. So if you want all the stuff that apple devices don't have then clearly Apple stuff isn't so good for you.

Personally I moved over to Apple in 2009 with a MacBook after getting thoroughly P'd off by Window's and PC's. Back then the price difference was not as great as Apple - my MacBook cost me £800 and to get a windows laptop of the time of similar quality I'd have been looking at something similar. But I was sick and tired of having to rebuild my computers several times a year and carry out a swathe of 'maintenance' activities once a month running a battery of programmes to clean up redundant files, files that decided to suddenly corrupt themselves another housekeeping activities, to just keep the thing ticking over.

This struck me as being needed due to the poor quality of the operating system. I'm not a computer nerd and had no desire to become one, I just wanted a computer that was like a washing machine - minimalistic and just worked. And after 8 years of Mac ownership that is exactly what I've had with the 2009 MacBook still plodding on faultlessly having required zero maintenance or fixing in all that time.

I'm now at a stage where I'm looking to replace it and looking at an iMac and a couple of iPads. The price difference is still not that great when you compare to alternative devices of similar quality (yes you can get windows stuff a hell of a lot cheaper, but I know from others experience you buy cheap you buy multiple times), and I believe windows stuff is a lot better now than it was. But part of me thinks why should I give Windows another crack at the whip when I've had no issues with my MacBook - its exceeded expectations and I think they deserve my custom going forward.

I don't doubt for a second that other options out there are just as good if not better, but I like the simplicity and styling of Apple stuff - it feels like really good quality kit, far superior than everything else and I know it lasts. I have no need for millions of USB ports and SD card slots, have no problems sharing data and files with friends and family, and all the apple stuff we have in our household just works together seamlessly all the time.

Apple are always last to market with new products, but when they come to market they come with very good products and don't clutter them up with unnecessary features and complications. I'm not so sure their prices are so much more than other equivalent products and in fact the company I work for are looking at replacing their Apple iMacs with some non Apple kit that is supposed to be better for what they use them for, but it is working out a hell of a lot more expensive than Apple - so the huge extortionate Apple price premium is a bit of a myth I think.

Based upon the experiences of my Windows work laptop I'm not convinced that MS has become better these days. Its still slow to boot up and shut down, still requires some on-going maintenance (though less than it used to) and still unstable and prone to crashing and throwing the odd wobbly. And that is a professionally built and maintained machine by HP, so it would be even worse when at the hands of my wife and kids.

Some gump walks in with a scratched up and smashed iphone = here you go sir, brand new phone and let me give you an iNosh while it copies your stuff over

I presume that "gump" is me. (As you quoted me in your post)

As it happens, I think cougar is spot on. They use a fairly reliable "attitude test" in the Apple Stores

Me: I've had great service, the odd freee replacement I probably wasn't entitled to, and a few fixes and repairs all done for free.

You: Nothing but arguments and refusals by the way describe your experience.

Who's the "Gump" again? 🙄

My iMac sits in my house on display and it looks far better than any other PC even today, which matters to me.
Combined with a nicer OS and longevity. It is currently 7 years old.

Is it worth the premium - to me it is so I buy them,

Because Apple lock you in, Apple users only know about Apple stuff. So when they go 'Ooh look at this amazing feature that our incredible machines can do!" they are generally unaware that it's not in the least bit new and everyone else can also do it.

The underlying system on Windows NT is absolutely rock solid

True.

You can run it on Apple machines as well.

Because Apple lock you in, Apple users only know about Apple stuff. So when they go 'Ooh look at this amazing feature that our incredible machines can do!" they are generally unaware that it's not in the least bit new and everyone else can also do it.

There's a few reasons.
Marketing is a big one, their products are cool, people want to be seen using them, their 'brand' is incredibly strong – in the same way people will pay £50 for even basic Nike trainers over £10 for George at ASDA ones.

Their stuff is by and large good, they don't sell crap. We see it a lot in work (we sell IT stuff) end user wants a Mac, the person paying for it wants a Windows - Ah, end user says, the Mac has got a better screen, better graphics, better this, better that - I "need" a Mac. Invariably they're comparing a £400 entry level i5 Laptop with a £1400 i5 MacBook and the Mac is worth the extra because of the screen etc - ah we say, give us a £1400 budget for a Windows Machine and we'll find you something that's better than the Mac in every way and the look at you like you're from Mars, why spend 3 times as much on a PC?

Same with Phones, people say "Android is crap" what they mean is a £150 shonky Android is not as good as the latest £900 iPhone with it's retina screen and it's Quad Core CPU.

It's Apples and Oranges, because Microsoft and Google allow their OS to be used on a huge range of hardware it hurts their brand - "Windows 10 is crap" I hear, no a Celeron based desktop is crap for using day in day out on any OS.

So you end up with a fairly small range of products all using very good, high-end hardware, wrapped in high-end, well designed, very desirable cases using a very good OS that's not been made to look crap on bad or outdated hardware (because they drop it) so what’s so good about Apple? Only that there’s nothing bad about them, other than the price.

There's a fight back going on those, Microsoft have got some amazing hardware now and more coming and Google Pixle phone is excellent.

nealglover - Member

I presume that "gump" is me. (As you quoted me in your post)

As it happens, I think cougar is spot on. They use a fairly reliable "attitude test" in the Apple Stores

Me: I've had great service, the odd freee replacement I probably wasn't entitled to, and a few fixes and repairs all done for free.

You: Nothing but arguments and refusals by the way describe your experience.

Who's the "Gump" again?

Err, no. Try again. I was disputing the content of your post, but talking specifically about somebody I watched walk in and get a smashed phone replaced while I was trying to get one of my machines sorted. I may have made the iNosh up.

And you quite honestly couldn't be more wrong about my attitude. I was nothing but pleasant and polite to all the people I spoke to. I have worked in both retail and IT helpdesks and really respect the poor souls who work on front-line support.

However, they simply would not budge on issues that were Apple's fault and I admit, that annoyed me. I didn't take it out on the staff but I made it clear I was not happy.
I believe it was a calculated decision made up the chain not to replace parts they knew were incorrectly designed. Like the Macbook case for instance where it wasn't until they started getting massive bad press on the issue before they would replace them gratis.

Yes. I heard someone complain that the scren on a £150 Windows laptop wasn't much good, nowhere near as nice as a £1,500 Mac. No shit.

Nothing against Apple, the model is equally valid, but I wish fanbois wouldn't be so biased about it. Windows is just as good, and the ability to get a decent machine for very little money is a significant benefit of the system.

No it isn't. It's a version of BSD.

Ok, it's a UNIX derivative, as is Linux (well a Unix clone).

footflaps - Member
Ok, it's a UNIX derivative

No, it actually IS UNIX. 😀 </pedant> 😛

Actually, it’s neither but don’t let that worry you.

Linux is “UNIX like” but certainly not UNIX. It provides the same hooks and API calls as UNIX but that is all. None of the UNIX code is in the Linux code.

Rachel

No, it actually IS UNIX

Not legally it isn't. Has shared heritage though.

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I'm not an Apple fanboi in any way shape or form but since I got my first proper smartphone (HTC Desire) I've never been able to live with a phone for more than 18 months. I got my iphone 6 the week they came out and its still going along nicely. We've got an ipad 3 that is still working perfectly too.

I've got a year samsung tablet that is slow, crashy and constantly telling me I'm out of space (can't move all of the app data to the SD card and then it moves back again whenever they update) and I can't root it because I use it for Sky Q and a 3 year old windows laptop that I've had to rescue from the brink of death at least twice.

I like apple ios devices they work and for the length of time they last compared to Android stuff they're decent value for money, can't be paying through the nose for macbooks though, they're just stupid money.

None of the UNIX code is in the Linux code.

Contentious statement, there have been several law suits claiming some of the code / APIs have been nicked....

allthegear - Member
Actually, it’s neither but don’t let that worry you.

POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST

footflaps - Member
Not legally it isn't. Has shared heritage though.

It is certified as UNIX by the Open Foundation.

Same with Phones, people say "Android is crap" what they mean is a £150 shonky Android is not as good as the latest £900 iPhone with it's retina screen and it's Quad Core CPU.

I know I much prefer my iphone7 compared to my Samsung S7

(I don't have any idea how they compare in terms of spec?)

I just hate using the Samsung (but I have to for work)

Probably more to do with what I'm used to after years of iPhone use, and I just don't know my way round an android phone as well.

It is certified as UNIX by the Open Foundation.

Where did you get this Lenovo tablet for 150 quid?

Was given a new ipad thing the other week. Battery life is good but I hate the thing.

allthegear - Member
erm - no, it isn’t. https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/#

I don't understand your post. Apple is the first on the list, OSX/Mac OS has been certified as UNIX for 10 years or more.

My apologies - I thought you meant Linux was certified, given that both of your quotations were talking about Linux.

Rachel

allthegear - Member
My apologies - I thought you meant Linux was certified, given that both of your quotations were talking about Linux.

Rachel

Oh right, no worries, my mistake - I thought footflaps and you were talking about BSD/Darwin.

For the money that Apple have their stuff should be perfect.
Why the need to change the charger ports? Why the need to make everything as thin as possible? I want a phone twice as thick with a monster last forever battery.
Why does it cost hundreds of pounds extra for 128 gb when I can get a chip for £30?
Why the constant upgrades that make stuff worse then ultimately buggers your machine up. It's like Russian roulette.
They are the evil empire.
I won't buy another apple product.

The thing that's been p*ssing me off for the last couple of years at least with iPhones is the update churn - it seems to be a cycle of:

- you have an update available. Update now?

- uh, yeah, OK I guess I don't think I need to but maybe it will make things work better. Oh, it looks like it's made no difference.

- you have an update available. Update now?

- no thanks, my device is working fine.

- you have an update available. Update now or update tomorrow?

- no thanks, my device is working fine.

- you have an update available. I've already downloaded it. Update now or update tonight?

- no thanks, my device is working almost fine, except I've lost some storage. I'll delete that update I don't want, thanks.

- you have an update available. I've already downloaded it again. Update now or update tonight?

- no thanks, my device is working fine. Hang on, that update was massive and I'm visiting my parents, they have a tiny old-school broadband limit. That's pretty rude. If you're going to keep doing that, I suppose I'm stuck with a GB less storage.

- you have an update available and you're not really paying attention. Got you! I'm updating your phone!

- oh bugger. Oh, OK, well I guess this was inevitable. Hang on, now my phone doesn't work as well as it did before and it's slower and things have moved around and the interface has got a load of random crap added onto it that I can't remove. See, this is why I didn't want to update.

- you have an update available. You don't really have a choice, I'm going to update sooner or later.

- this is Stockholm Syndrome. Fine, keep on updating it. Keep on breaking my iPhone, little by little, until it's ground down to a brick in my pocket. Then I suppose I'll have to buy a new iPhone because it's the least-hassle way to keep all my photos and files and apps and settings and - hang on, what the f*ck do you mean it doesn't even have a sodding HEADPHONE SOCKET?

P.S.

If you want to know what other manufactures can do with a massive RRP (£2400 - £3300 in this case) have a look at this.

It's compariable with a 5K iMac

Yeah, but is it UNIX?? 😆

Everything in an iPad will be betterer than in a Yoga, the SOC in particular will wipe the floor with anything budget android (infact anything android) the screen will be better, the memory better and faster and the screen much, much better (not compared to Samsung obvs). Plus the apps are usually much nicer than Android apps

However iOS is an absolute steaming pile of turds, structurally has barely moved on since Apple created the iPhone, file system, nope, SIRI is a joke, zero (well not quite, but almost) customisation, the lack of a back button, the abomination that are notifications. What seemed so wow 10 years ago now seems a bit Fisher Price. But a Fisher Price which will get updates for many years and will work better for more years than Android equivalents.

Oh and proprietary dongles, Apple produced their 30 pin connectors for years after the introduction of Micro USB, then swerved Micro USB for the "better" proprietary lightning connector for no other reason than cash. Interesting to see if the IPhone 10 will get USB C

allthegear - Member
Yeah, but is it UNIX??

No but it is (somewhat) POSIX compliant. 😀

Heh - if iOS is a streaming pile of turds, it's a mature pile. Many of the core classes still start NSxxx where the NS stands for NextStep. That's harking back to 1987.

Rachel

Reading some of the latest reviews and comparisons things like the Dell XPS and Surfaces are coming out ahead of the Macbooks, phones seem to be 6-12 months behind the competition etc.
It's stable/never crashes seems to be heavily disproved by this thread already so what are you getting?

Connectivity, cloud means you don't need everything in one family. The photo's I took on my phone this evening will be on my desktop and laptop along with the cloud within seconds, I can pick up a new laptop and be up and running in under an hour, when I got a new phone it took longer to charge than it did to set up with all the apps I used to have and the data needed.
Google Voice stuff really does just work, really well too. It's great fun watching my housemate trying to make Siri work.

The business practices are the real killer, building obsolescence, removing user serviceable parts etc.

Like many things they are living on an idea and a marketing punch, the reception for the new macbooks said a lot, the creatives begrudgingly accepting they would probably need to buy one and then pricing up all the adapters needed to "just work" didn't leave many with a smile on their faces.

Is it a brand that can continue it's current model through another recession/slow down? At what point do the $$ start to count against them?

Where did you get this Lenovo tablet for 150 quid?

I got it from Argos so, considering the above debate, I really should hang my head in shame (it's a really nice bit of tactile and quality kit in my humble/ill-informed opinion). I guess I'm just used to Android and can't be bothered to make the transition.

http://www.argos.co.uk/product/4447267

Essentially, Apple have total control over the hardware and software, avoiding any problems inherent with third party equipment. This is simultaneously their biggest strength and their biggest weakness.

Basically this for me. As a reasonably competent tech person I am happy with the way stuff just works & syncs together seamlessly.

I went from an iPhone to an iPad to lastly a Mini Mac. Everything just works, always.

Over the years, i've had various Android based phones for work & every single one has been turd by comparison. It's annoying, as Apple have got me tied in now, but there isn't a viable alternative IMO.

Their stuff is by and large good, they don't sell crap. We see it a lot in work (we sell IT stuff) end user wants a Mac, the person paying for it wants a Windows - Ah, end user says, the Mac has got a better screen, better graphics, better this, better that - I "need" a Mac. Invariably they're comparing a £400 entry level i5 Laptop with a £1400 i5 MacBook and the Mac is worth the extra because of the screen etc - ah we say, give us a £1400 budget for a Windows Machine and we'll find you something that's better than the Mac in every way and the look at you like you're from Mars, why spend 3 times as much on a PC?

To some extent I resemble that remark. When the new MacBook Pro came out with a stiff price hike I thought "stuff that, they're taking the pi$$, I'm gonna get me one o' them good value Windows machines". But when I looked, the equivalent spec really wasn't enormously much cheaper, certainly not enough to justify the pain of changing my "ecosystem".

Reading some of the latest reviews and comparisons things like the Dell XPS and Surfaces are coming out ahead of the Macbooks, phones seem to be 6-12 months behind the competition etc.
It's stable/never crashes seems to be heavily disproved by this thread already so what are you getting?

Don't really agree with Apple stuff being worse value for money given it's quality & longevity, admittedly I've not looked into the new MBPs in great detail & agree that some of the decisions around them seem a bit odd (although possible it will all be moot once everything else catches up!)

In my company there used to be a fair few people who used their own Macs instead of the company issued Lenovo's but over the last couple of years that's completely stopped and instead anyone wanting to use their own machine now goes with an MS Surface. There were nevery many iPad users because of the O/S limitations which is probably why the Surfaces are popular as they're a much more effective laptop replacement.

I have a cheap Lenovo tablet (a quad-core one with a detachable keyboard) and it's much more useful than my wife's iPad Mini which cost much more but pretty much never gets used (she prefers her Samsung S7 Edge phone for the stuff she used to use the iPad for, and a touch screen W10 Lenovo laptop for everything else).

[i]no slowing down as it gets older,[/i]

Arf!

This has made me think though - why have I got 3 iPads (1,2 & Pro), 2 iPhones (4 & 6S), 2 iPod classics, 1 iPod Touch and 4 iPod Nanos?
Started with the music players, they're just better than anything else I've used. The rest.. ? (Oh, I did get the iPad 1 & 2 and the iPhone 4 for nothing, I suppose)

It will be interesting to see how W10 installations last.. and to see how well things like MS Surface and Dell XPSs last. Will we be here in 8 years time crowing over how old our laptops are?

[quote=zilog6128 ]Don't really agree with Apple stuff being worse value for money given it's quality & longevity

Depends how much having a top of the range machine is worth to you. As mentioned above you can get similar quality in Windows machines - and despite comments above they do still tend to be a bit cheaper for the same spec. But then you'll pay twice as much to get something 20% better, which doesn't seem great VFM to me. The longevity thing has already been debunked (currently typing on a 5yo Lenovo which still works just fine, and TBH is also pretty decent quality).

I'm not a hater - we have an iPad 3 in our house and that also works fine, but then it's not obviously significantly better functionally than my 3yo Android phone. I'm not sure what apps people are using to claim that the iOS version is better, because given my experience of using the "same" apps on both I've not noticed any obvious differences. Meanwhile just check out a thread on buying a s/h iPad for what the real opinions of those owning Apple products is on their longevity (apparently ours is obsolete). Of course reading all that you'll realise that I'm not a big fan of having the newest shiniest kit, so probably not the Apple target market (the iPad was "free").

Depends how much having a top of the range machine is worth to you. As mentioned above you can get similar quality in Windows machines - and despite comments above they do still tend to be a bit cheaper for the same spec. But then you'll pay twice as much to get something 20% better, which doesn't seem great VFM to me.

I didn't think anyone liked apple stuff - owners are forever saying that it only just works

Up until 8 years ago I was in the DOS/Windows camp. A significant birthday and I thought I'd try out an iMac. Fast forward to the present day and we are a Mac household. My original iMac is still going strong, I upgraded the memory and have taken the OS updates but haven't done anything else.

There are some things that I find awkward/irritate me - the Finder being one but equally there were things in Windows that did similar. iTunes is now a pain but mainly because it's trying to do too much, it needs splitting into smaller programs.

It's now several years since I've been on a Windows machine - my last place of work used them for admin stuff but Linux for development, current work is entirely Linux. XP was the last release I've used to any great extent. I've no experience of Windows 10 (nor Win8) but I really didn't get on with Windows 7 despite everyone saying how great it was. It's similar in Linux: I'm fine with the KDE desktop/environment but not the Gnome or Ubuntu ones.

I've an iPad2, there's no way I'm upgrading the OS on it as by all accounts it makes it run like a dog but I'm happy with how it works so why change.

Generally if you build something to a similar spec then you'll get a similar price

I have a few apple devices, and have developed an app for apple (nothing special).

I do like apple products, I suspect the reason they are highly rated is because they are premium devices.

My macbook is brilliant, the touchpad is by far the best one I have used on any laptop, but then even a cheap macbook pro is £1300. For that sort of money, it's super high end Dell territory.

Apple stuff just works.

Apart from when it doesn't.

They look nice, and have a different, but not necessarily better UI. If you are comparing like with like then as far as I can see that about sums it up. I reckon all this stuff about not crashing like Windows and being the only thing for graphic design or whatever is 5+ years out of date.

The other thing you get is potential compatibility problems, and a lot of people I know working in STEM in HE have Macbook Pros running Windows.

I'm not going to slate them but I don't see they're any better than Windows machines really.