Interesting that some people think something they happily do themselves is somehow 'unsuitable' for their little darlings...
Plonking them in front of the telly rather than giving them 'proper' attention is neglectful, possibly, but sitting and watching a film with them is a 'shared' cultural experience. Nowt wrong with that, surely? What's with the snobbishness that books are ok and nice and healthy, yet a film isn't? All forms of cultural reproduction, and equally valid. A film is a visual and audible experience too. Doesn't have to be purely passive consumption; you can chat and discuss things that happen on screen, same as you would with a book.
All about balance, and being open-minded about stuff.
Interesting that some people think something they happily do themselves is somehow 'unsuitable' for their little darlings...
You're so right, elf. Tomorrow night I'm going to sit my kids down with a nice glass of wine. That's after taking them whitewater swimming earlier in the day, and getting them to chainsaw the bits of tree we need to get rid of. Then later we'll snuggle up and watch Reservoir Dogs, or maybe Clockwork Orange. Finally a late night game of poker before tucking them up in bed.
My eldest (2) has just got up 20 mins ago, no tv yet 😉
I think people assume they are plonked in front of a tv all day.
Mines up watching CBeebies
You are going to hell !
I quite like Sarah-Jane honeywell off tikabilla
Isn't hell a 2 year old?
(joke)
if I can entertain a toddler just fine (along with a further 5 kids) without the need for a TV/DVD whether I'm broken or not, so can you!
Hmm.
So let's see. We've got one kid who's still not 2 yet, so she has no-one else to play with apart from Mrs Grips. Mrs Grips is pregnant and doens't have particularly good health currently. She's either been puking her guts or on the point of puking her guts constantly for about six weeks and often can't eat much of anything. So bearing that in mind she has to come up with active constructive play for Lil Grips for 9 hours a day whilst I'm at work, and tidy up after her as she wrecks the house and take her outside to run around regularly, often on the way to or from the shops with shopping.
I think she's entitled to a break now and then. Especially as it's a break where Lil Grips gets to do something she loves.
My oldest at 4 has never seen a film
That really is a crying shame!
but sitting and watching a film with them is a 'shared' cultural experience. Nowt wrong with that, surely?
Absolutely. Personally I love films, and I hope my daughter grows up with the same sense of excitement and happiness and pure joy in the medium that I myself cherish.
What's with the snobbishness that books are ok and nice and healthy, yet a film isn't?
Erm, it's to do with neurological and psychiatric research about how babies perceive the world and how they develop. If you want to argue about it, you could argue about how valid the psychiatrists and neurologists research is, but to write it off as snobbery is silly
Is a 2 year old still a baby? And what kinds of films are bad?
Got any links?
Maybe we should bookmark this thread and come back in 18 years or so and see whos kids got the better degree and see if any correlation between viewing Mr Tumble or not.
Or maybe some things over the next 18 years of life might have bigger impacts.
Who do so many of your threads descend into petty fights? I can't understand it...
my daughter has been up since 6.00am with Chicken Pox and has watched Disneys Cinderella and is just starting Sleeping Beauty i dread to think what physiological and neurological damage this is doing to her or it could be making her feel better and distracting her from the fact she is covered in itching spots and has a temperature of 39C.
Some of you should get of your high horses, a child watching a film doesn't preclude them from doing crafts, baking or reading or going out in the countryside or riding a bike its about balance and giving them a rich mix of experiences.
I'm with Molgrips its your children that are missing out not yours that are suffering.
Nick
It would be funny to bookmark the thread and see what happens.
I love the fact people will dump their kids in a nursery, yet scoff at others letting their kids watch a bit of tv 😆
I have an 18month old and 3 week old, mum stays at home with them and will do until school time. Shock, horror we let the eldest watch some tv!!!! He likes CBeebies, he also plays with toys, listens to music and is very loving (gives awesome hugs)
All these no to tv lot are not to disimilar to this pair.
[img]www.tfheaven.free-online.co.uk/modernparents.jpg[/img]
Mine are watching Ice Age for the umpteenth time. It's grim outside just now.
My 2.5 year old daughter seems to like a mix of stuff -
Ratatouie (or however it is spelt)
Hercules (Disney cartoon)
Basil the great mouse detective
Dinosaur
The Water Horse (a good film I reckon as well)
Monsters Inc
Madagascar
Madagascar 2
The Incredibles (and the 2 wee short films on the DVD)
Antz
Robin Hood (Disney)
Home and Find (but only in small chunks...I think she thinks it is me riding a bike...haha, how disappointed she'll be when she finds out it isn't!)
Peter Kay's Comic Relief DVD with all the cartoon characters - christ she goes daft for that and does the dancing as well!
Babe
The trailers for UP! on YouTube
Lion King
101 Dalmations
Pretty much all cartoons but they all have slightly different stories (although they are all very similar about love/adventure and all that!)...the Dinosaur one has a scene where the T-Rex kills a dinosaur - no blood or gore, T-Rex just bites the dino and that is it but it's clear what is going on...she seems to like watching it...
She doesn't watch much tv but she does watch it...we'll put the tv on in the late afternoon/evening and we'll play in the living room so it is on but isn't always the reason for being in the room.
I think everything she has watched, she has watched with us and there has been some kind of interaction and I think the ones where everyone interacts or laughs are the ones she likes to watch again and again and again and again...
It is funny listening to her chatting to her grandparents and she starts on a story about a character and they are clueless about it all...very funny to see as she gets very serious about it and they are left like wee kids stuck as they don't know what to say or what is going on...
ours (2 y old) loves monsters inc. too but requests jungle book a lot as well. its a classic from my childhood but it still grabs em and keeps them quiet ...... report me to the parent police !
"Television is a new, hard test of our wisdom. If we succeed in mastering this new medium it will enrich us. But it can also put our minds to sleep. We must not forget that in the past the inability to transport immediate experience and to convey it to others made the use of language necessary and thus compelled the human mind to develop concepts. For in order to describe things, one must draw the general from the specific; one must select, compare, think. When communication can be achieved by pointing with the finger, however, the mouth grows silent, the writing hand stops, and the mind shrinks."
Rudolph Arnheim in 1935
Am I the only parent who breaks the day down into 15 minute chunks of trying to keep them occupied while waiting for bedtime?!
"My oldest at 4 has never seen a film"
That really is a crying shame!
It might be if you think watching films is an important part of their development. I don't and neither apparently do the experts. The thing is I know he wouldn't actually be that keen - and I'm not about to try and work out what it is he would like to sit and watch for 1.5 hours! Maybe you need to explain to me what he is missing out on if you think it is such a shame, as I don't get it.
I love the fact people will dump their kids in a nursery, yet scoff at others letting their kids watch a bit of tv
From those comments I presume you don't have much idea what goes on in a nursery. Interaction with other kids (on a regular basis, so they make friends - most of the kids at 4yo's recent birthday party were from nursery). Interaction with other adults. Lots of learning (Early Years Framework). Interestingly they watch very little TV at nursery. About as far from "dumping" as you could possibly get. We have of course done the nursery thing before, but comparing it to watching films is quite ridiculous. For the record my kids do watch TV - more when they're with me than with mrs aracer - just don't sit in front of it for hours at a time, and right now with only 21mo here it's not going on at all, given he's just as happy doing other things (and much prefers books).
we'll put the tv on in the late afternoon/evening and we'll play in the living room so it is on but isn't always the reason for being in the room
So you have the TV on in the background whilst doing other things? 😯 Why not just switch it off? Are you trying to train your kids to watch TV?
or it could be making her feel better and distracting her from the fact she is covered in itching spots and has a temperature of 39C
Strawman. In similar circumstances I see nothing wrong with kids watching lots of TV when they don't have the energy for other things - indeed mine have spent a lot of the day in front of the TV when ill. Not what most people are doing though.
You're so right, elf. Tomorrow night I'm going to sit my kids down with a nice glass of wine. That's after taking them whitewater swimming earlier in the day, and getting them to chainsaw the bits of tree we need to get rid of. Then later we'll snuggle up and watch Reservoir Dogs, or maybe Clockwork Orange. Finally a late night game of poker before tucking them up in bed.
Or of course you could just be sensible about things and not get quite so hysterical if someone ever challenges your model of Perfect Parenting... 🙄
I watched that 'Madagascar' nature docu on BBC the other day. I can't imagine anything more suitable for a little child; loads of colours, shapes, sounds, funny animals like monkeys and stuff. Fascinating. I'm sure kids would love stuff like that. Maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they'd prefer Pingu or ITNG or whatever. Who knows. All kids are different. I've seen young 'uns sit there transfixed by horse racing and adverts for 'I can't believe it's not Butter'. Tinies are weird like that.
I don't think Molgrips is on about plonking his little 'un down in front of the telly and just ignoring her. But maybe I think that because I read his OP propply, and din't go off on one about the horror and injustice of it all...
Erm, it's to do with neurological and psychiatric research about how babies perceive the world and how they develop. If you want to argue about it, you could argue about how valid the psychiatrists and neurologists research is, but to write it off as snobbery is silly
I'm sure other Psychos and Neurotics have done research that might suggest a bit of televisual stimulation can actually be quite good for a developing mind, too...
We're talking about an hour or two watching films, in a family group or with adult supervision close at hand. Got any Psychoneurotic 'evidence' that this is harmful?
Loads of info (with links to studies) [url= http://www.tvsmarter.com/documents/brainwaves.html ]here[/url] about TV and its effects on everyone from tiny ones to adults. Perhaps an ironic medium for anti-TV propaganda, but this video is also quite interesting:
Maybe you need to explain to me what he is missing out on if you think it is such a shame, as I don't get it.
Stories (different to those in books), fun, character tracking, involvement, learning to understand cultural forms. But mainly something that gives enjoyment along with books and whatever else.
I don't think Molgrips is on about plonking his little 'un down in front of the telly and just ignoring her. But maybe I think that because I read his OP propply, and din't go off on one about the horror and injustice of it all
Thanks Elf, quite right 🙂
The frequent "formal features" such as camera cuts and zooms, trigger the viewer's "orienting response" over and over again.
Right. Have you ever actually watched CBeebies? Have a look at the camera work and production next time and then re-read that article.
What makes me very sceptical about these studies is they talk about TV like it's one thing. What I want to know is what were they actually watching?
There's TV and there's TV, obviously, and we put a great deal of thought into what's good to watch and what's not. Surely anyone who reads my posts on here would've expected that?
Not all TV is bad, not all TV is made with whizzy visuals, and you know what? Not all books are good either.
That's a pretty anti-tv website, not sure why they'd be so dead against all kinds of TV. Our kid goes out and runs about, plays with toys all day, reads books, and sometimes wants to watch tv or a film. Just like me. That site shows that brainwaves are lower when watching tv, indicating relaxation and inactivity. That's exactly how I feel when watching TV, and I like it. It's good to chill out sometimes.
(posted from a house where the TV is currently off)
Right, ok, now explain how this differs from watching a play or ballet, or looking out of the window on a car journey, or something like that?
Too much TV, as with most things, probbly is bad, speshly for soft spongy absorbent little minds.
I don't think Molgrips is arguing this.
He asked what films would be good for his little girl to watch. Then someone got a bit precious and started banging on about 'TV is baaaad, M'kay?' Which is a bit of an overreaction to say the least...
Tell you what, let's do an experiment. Let's come back in 20 or 30 years time, and see wether Molgrip's kid/s are significantly 'damaged' compared to Aracer's...
I'd like to add ..
all the toys storys
how to train your dragon - awesome
ant bully also very good
i would have to say tv has also helped my kids with counting and letters. Also they have a very extensive vocabulary for their age which I feel this has also helped with.
everything in moderation their not plonked in front of the tv for 4 hrs at a time neither do I take them on 40 miles epic bycle runs.
I wondered when I opened this thread how long it would take for people to comment on the evils of children watching t.v. it surpassed my expectations 😀
Or of course you could just be sensible about things
OK - despite the fact I think it's fine for an adult to sit in front of the TV for a couple of hours it's not so great for a little child. The trouble is you'll just argue with that point, so I thought I should find some things you couldn't dispute weren't suitable for kids but fine for adults, given the thrust of your argument seemed to be that if it's OK for us it's OK for the kids.
I still think the most interesting comment from molgrips is:
Our study suggests that for this little one the TV she watches in the way she watches it is not bad for her
Because of course he knows so much better than the experts. There are lots of studies about showing that too much is bad for little kids, but I really can't be bothered going and finding links to them all, because the experts on here will just dismiss them anyway. Though it's also interesting how he's busy trying to justify her watching films because mum is tired and ill (not at all an unreasonable excuse), when it's quite clear that's neither the only, nor I suspect the first time she's watched films.
WTF do you mean [b]SO she has no-one else to play with?[/b] Yes she does, whether you or your partner want to interact with other parents/carers of children around the same age nearby for her to play with is entirely upto you!Hmm.So let's see. We've got one kid who's still not 2 yet, so she has no-one else to play with apart from Mrs Grips.
stick your young kids infront of your TV/DVD as much as you like, I honestly couldn't care less.. I simply said, "I wouldn't" and in typical STW style some random tool flounces off in the huff never to return, the OP takes my simple comment to heart and backtracks with a multitude of excuses to back up their decisions when there's no need at all and everyone else is at each others' throats. 😆
Hope the Mrs is feeling better soon Molgrips and may I suggest "Getta" as a prospective name for baby Grips No 2?
I simply said, "I wouldn't"
No, you didn't. You said you wouldn't, and came up with loads of reasons why we were neglecting our kid's upbringing. If you can't see how insensitive that is you need to have a bit of a think.
Now it's a valid point that there are other kids in the neighbourhood, but I honestly don't think I am capable of walking up to strangers and asking if they'll play with us. There might be toddler groups in the area but we are having some language difficulties currently. The thing is, Meg doesn't necessarily need anyone else to play with right now since she's still at the spectator or parallel play stage so I'm not sure how much she'd get out of it. The issue is more about Mrs Grips than it is Lil Grips, and if she has to go out and force herself to socialise with strangers then it isn't going to help her relax much.
gw , the thread title is 'what film for a 2 year old ' and if you go back to page 1 you'll see that molgrips was getting the replies he asked for until you blundered in with your views . why don't you start a thread about raising kids without tv then i can come and tell you what my kids favourite film is !
and came up with loads of reasons why we were neglecting our kid's upbringing.
WTF? Where did I come up with ANY reasons? or accuse anyone of neglect? You deluded fool!
I'd never attempt to stick a kid infront of a DVD at such a young age.
This is fairly negative, isn't it? You choose the phrase 'stick in front of' rather than 'show' or 'offer', which strongly implies that we are making her do it and not bothering to do anything else for her. Which is a bit insulting.
I'm actually a single parent and if I can entertain a toddler just fine (along with a further 5 kids) without the need for a TV/DVD whether I'm broken or not, so can you!
This is insulting because it implies that we're not trying.
Now I don't know if you meant to imply those things. If you did, then that wasn't nice, if you didn't then choose your words more carefully!
To be fair aracer was more offensive, coming on with the 'evidence' of how we are terrible parents and hurting our kids' brains. Of course like most intelligent parents we are taking a great deal of care and going to great lengths to ensure our child is as stimulated and has a good productive life. Of course he apparently chooses to not even ask about any of that and make a judgement then and there, so it seems.
Bear in mind of course that this is a forum and I might be replying to the thread in general and not you specifically GW.
How about the chuggington film or bob the builder?
And as for aracer we dont rely on paying a nursery to let someome else do the interacting for us. My wife takes our nipper to mother and baby groups where he has friends.
Call me old fashioned but having a member of family staying at home looking after the children, is better for them than a stranger in the early years.
Anywho, some tv is ok I dont get why there is an issue.
OMG step away from the computer you poor fragile paranoid little thing!
Nope, just FACT! andThis is fairly negative, isn't it?
I haven't actually implied anything by it at all!
The only thing I intentionally implied is that you need to stop making pathetic excuses for your own decisions! if you find that insulting then so be it.
Call me old fashioned but having a member of family staying at home looking after the children, is better for them than a stranger in the early years.
I read a review of the research in the paper, but haven't read any of the underlying research, and it said that having a small number of constant care figures is best in some ways, with few advantages of nursery. Although also evidence that going back to work can be better for parents if they want to, in the long run happy parents probably makes more of adifference than nursery vs child minder vs stay at home mum.
I know best about everything and am entirely dismissive of all your parenting efforts.
Anything with Pooh/Tigger
Aristocats
Up
Monsters Inc
Lilo and Stitch
Toy Story
Ice Age
I'm sure other Psychos and Neurotics have done research that might suggest a bit of televisual stimulation can actually be quite good for a developing mind, too...
I don't think there is any, although I'd be interested to know if you dug some out. My hunch is that there is so much potential money in baby tv that any research going that way would be trumpeted widely.
As always on these threads, I'd recommend a book called 'the philosophical baby' - incredibly good lay person's guide to the current research on how kids brains work, explains why the no tv thing makes sense for under twos also.
Having said that, we let our baby watch a tiny bit of tv five minutes or so at a time, and we're sending her to childminder in June, just because we can read research and know what would be optimum, doesn't mean that we don't make comprises to fit our combined family lifestyle just like everyone else,
no [i]I[/i] know best about everything and am entirely dismissive of all of your parenting afforts
debby does dallas
human centipede
terminator
shindlers list
Because of course he knows so much better than the experts.
Erm, maybe, just maybe (and I'm going out on a limb here), he does, because he actually spends time with his little one, whereas the 'experts' dont.
I have never seen a 'definitive guide' or blueprint about how to raise children. Just a load of egotists trying to impress how much their onions mean more than others.
For the record; I don't have my own kids, no. But I'd wager I've probbly been left to look after more tinies than most folk on here. Apparently I'm 'good with kids'. So many parents have entrusted their precious little bundles unto myself. I've never had any complaints.
In my humble onion (and I concede many folk may want to challenge me here), children are incredibly resilient and tough, and are able to withstand all sorts of adverse social, physical, economic and psychological hardships. Each person's upbringing is unique. Yes, too much negative influence can have a damaging effect, but who is the arbiter of exactly what is 'negative'?
Children all over the World grow up in 'less than perfect' circumstances, according to us in the affluent cosseted West. But they survive, and you know what? Some of then actually do ok. I know! Amazing, is not it???
I'm amused by the attempted slights at Molgrips' abilities as a parent. I feel it inevitably that I will one day meet Molgrips 'in real life' (he may well live in fear of such an eventuality), and just from his presence on this forum, I reckon he's probbly not that bad a parent. Because, like, I read his stuff on here and figure him out to be at least a reasonably intelligent, caring, sensitive and conscientious a Human Being.
Or maybe i've got it all wrong because I jolly well have not read a couple of media articles...
Who knows.
What is the answer?
Moderation is key here. Our little one (2yo) watches a little tv, some days she gets none, other days (say, if she's poorly), she might watch an hour or two. Quite often if we're watching she tells us she wants us to turn it off! I don't see the problem with it myself, but then we don't generally have the TV on much anyway.
One DVD my daughter seems to enjoy is "March of the Penguins", although she doesn't really like the bit with the seal. We don't just plonk her in front of it though, me or the wife will sit with her and respond to her comments, or make our own as we watch.
yunki Jr is sixteen months old and like every other kid his age he has cbeebies on from dawn til dusk..
he generally watches a few moments at a time before he gets bored.. switches it off and does something more interesting.. (except for that episode of waybulloo where nocktock can't balance a coconut on another round object.. he'd watch that all day I reckon.. howls with laughter at the stupidity/slapstick..)
he's usually far too busy climbing up stuff.. building stuff.. playing with his toys.. trying to work out how things work.. singing and dancing.. watching the birds on the feeder in the garden or hitting people with books until they read to him..
make of that what you will..
Stories (different to those in books), fun, character tracking, involvement, learning to understand cultural forms. But mainly something that gives enjoyment along with books and whatever else.
Ah - all the stuff he gets from going to the theater, or watching stuff on TV which doesn't involve him sitting there for 1.5 hours.
To be fair aracer was more offensive, coming on with the 'evidence' of how we are terrible parents and hurting our kids' brains
If the facts hurt, maybe you should avoid internet forums.
And as for aracer we dont rely on paying a nursery to let someome else do the interacting for us. My wife takes our nipper to mother and baby groups where he has friends.
Friends he sees 2 or 3 times every week for several hours, so as to form strong bonds? Does he even know the names of the other kids at the mother and baby groups - would they get invited to his birthday party? I note you're also ignoring the bit about all the learning they get at nursery.
Call me old fashioned but having a member of family staying at home looking after the children, is better for them than a stranger in the early years.
Old fashioned? You're stuck in the stone ages. I'd resisted suggesting staying at home with mum was wrong, as I'm generally of the opinion that these sort of things are an individual choice, but if you're insistent on pushing the buttons, then yes I do think your kids are missing out by not going to nursery (or some other similar child care arrangement), and that staying at home with mum is actually worse.
Anywho, some tv is ok I dont get why there is an issue.
If you check back, you'll see my kids watch some TV - though I suspect even though I feel sometimes I let them watch a bit too much, my definition of "some" is rather less than others on here. Still to be convinced them sitting there for 1.5 hours watching a film (even if that is together with mum/dad) is a good thing.
Lol at me being stuck in the stone age.
Heaven forbid "us" actually raising our kid, as opposed to paying someone to do it for most of the day.
Structured learning, is marketing speak to make you feel better IMHO.
So let me get this right the fact my lad knows his friends names and vice versa, the fact they hug each other when they meet, the fact they love playing at our house as its like a play room, plus they go out on regular trips together to farms the park etc in the day is wrong???? Hmmmm best I sign him up now!!!!
OMG step away from the computer you poor fragile paranoid little thing!
Wow you know a lot about me, don't you?
Perhaps, if you don't understand this non-verbal communication thing, it's you who should step away from the computer 🙂
Like it or not, your comments did heavily imply a certain attitude (hence the number of offended folk on the thread). If you didn't mean that, then the correct response is usually to apologise.
If the facts hurt, maybe you should avoid internet forums
Lol! Any idea how ridiculous that sounds? Oh and if you think that website you linked to is 'facts' then you need to learn a lot more about people, the media, science and science reporting.
my definition of "some" is rather less than others on here.
Oh yeah? How much TV do our kids watch then?
Personally, I was quite impressed when Lil Grips was able to maintain concentration and actively watch the movie (ie talk about it, react to it, not just zonk out) for an hour and a half. Not bad for a 22mo.
mumsnet.singletrackworld.com
PS thanks for the kind words Elf 🙂
What about the health of the carer? No one seems to mention this and imo they need a break from full time care whether that comes from tv/film, nursery, school etc. Simply you can't look after a baby 24 hours a day without going a bit mad and suffering the repercussions of that on your head, marriage/relationship etc. You need a break.
