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If you believe the reviews, the Golf is a much better car than the S3 despite it sharing so much. Looks pretty crap vs the mk7 and 7.5 (and to be fair, the mk6, 5 and 4).
Alpina B3S touring
The Alpina is a nice car but the remit was FAST and slightly practical. Not PRACTICAL and slightly fast.
As before - a 911 is the answer or a Taycan if you can afford it.
If you can get one with the magnetoheological dampeners, it’s a must. I’ve never driven anything with such a small tyre sidewall (21/30) that drove so well on potholed roads. It made my Z4MC on 18/40 non run flats feel akin to being dragged around on my face. A proper revelation.
The Alpina is a nice car but the remit was FAST and slightly practical. Not PRACTICAL and slightly fast.
0-60 in 3.9 and 186mph not fast enough?
OK, it is over budget...
If I can break the "must be brand new" rule, I'll suggest a Lotus Evora 2+2 (I have one my self). Lotus now offer a manufactures warranty on 2nd had cars too. Brilliant and amazing road car and the 2+2 version has the practicality to easily fit the dogs in back seats. Very reliable drive train, cheap running costs, better damped and more comfortable than anything fast and German and just a joy to drive.
OP - out of interest,
I’ve got a MK8 Golf R on order, but there’s production issues at the moment. So, I’ve been looking around again
Did you cancel the order? What's the issues? I've got an order in with VW now pushed back to Feb '22, just under a year from order date. Reasons vary from demand, semiconductors, boat stuck in river...
I've got an RS4 Avant Sport Edition and its approximately practical and fast. I like it. Was well under your budget just over 18mths old with 13k miles on it.
I personally have no idea how any "extends" any reasonably nippy modern car for fun?
I've just sold my 335d, which by modern standards is pretty mild in all honesty (180 bhp/ton approx) and yet, with just 8 or 9 tenths the thing would be deep into 3 figures on pretty much any road you can name.
Seperating 0-60 in 4 from 0-60 in 6 is irrelevant ime. you can't "get away" from a 6 second car in a 4 second car on the public road.
So, choose by the way it drives, not how fast it goes......
(i'd pick a 120bhp MX-5 over any S3 / AMG45 / GuffR everytime, or if i had the money, i'd pick an Alpine A110 tbh. More, than fast enough, much more fun)
Post 2019 alfa Giula QV (revised engine and split-fold seats)
Bikes can go in the boot. Alfa do the best back seat liner I've ever seen - probably as recompense for Marchionne killing the Sportwagon. Totally dog proof.
Its stupendously capable everyday transport.
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It all went in.
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I drive it absolutely everywhere, despite having a van that would do this far more sensibly. I get out of it and want to get back in and drive it some more. "oh we need eggs, 5 mins" BWAAARRRP!
A fast, slightly practical car is not a Golf R / S3 / GenericGTI - those are all perfectly sensible, very practical, fast but fairly dull cars. Do nothing for me in the slightest. My father-in-law's never approved of my car choice and prefers quick diesels - he doesn't see the appeal of something that's genuinely an event to drive at all speeds. I just don't see the appeal of a fast car if it's boring to drive.
I'd happily do a 3-hr drive to work in mine but won't suggest it as 20mpg would get tiring quickly.
What about a Jag F-type? Or Alpine A110? Or spend half your budget on an Aston V8 Vantage and the remaining £30k running it?
These threads depress me. I don't want to share the roads with people for whom 6secs to 60 isn't fast enough and need a 4second car to get out of bends or something like that that I'm still trying to understand. I won a British championship in a car that was slower than that, and there was no need to worry about pedestrians, cyclists, dogs, horses etc. because they were kept out of the way.
There will be claims about these silly fast cars being safer because "it makes overtaking safer ", but insurance companies keep stats and they charge according to the chances of having to pay out when the owner ****s up. Some fast cars don't attract high premiums, track day cars get bimbled to the track and the insurance people know that but there's a reason a Golf R costs more than a Zoé to insure, it's because Golf R owners kill and maim more people and that's expensive.
I was pleased to hear that Renault are following Volvo's lead and have decided to limit cars to 180kmh.
I impatiently await the day when cars are automaticaly limited to the speed limit and every violent acceleration or brake results in the car running 2kmh under the limit for the next km.
I was pleased to hear that Renault are following Volvo’s lead and have decided to limit cars to 180kmh.
Shame it isn't lower
I agree, Simon, they're worried about German sales. It will be for the Electric range starting with the Megane at 160kmh.
Fun sponge thread is that way.
If it was me I would look for RWD only, manual box, naturally aspirated.
Got one of those too but sadly you can’t get new ones, hence the Cupra.
I’m already stressing about what I get to see my petrol days out after those 2 go 😫
I was pleased to hear that Renault are following Volvo’s lead and have decided to limit cars to 180kmh.
I learn something every day; Volvos seem to be stuck at 40mph (65kph) regardless of speed limit, surprised they could ever reach 180kph 😮
Oh, and auto.
Only peasants drive manuals.
There are no words for how wrong this is. 🤪
Fun sponge thread is that way.
Yep. There are literally millions of threads on the internet. Millions of them are full of things I don't like. I don't click on them.
I'd only take offence if someone delivered that thread to my house and forced me to read it.
Anyway...
Cars are nice.
Volvos seem to be stuck at 40mph (65kph) regardless of speed limit, surprised they could ever reach 180kph
Surely you mean the Honda Jazz. The Volvo drivers where I live are almost as dangerous as the Audi and BMW drivers (From a cyclist perspective where I don't really appreciate fast cars and the ****ers that drive them)
Some fast cars don’t attract high premiums,
very good point. My BMW 330 does 0-60 in just under 6 seconds, top speed 140mph and cost approx £400 per year to insure
I’m looking at Porsche Boxter 981s, 6 of best sounding normally aspirated flat 6 cylinders you can buy. 0-60 under 5 secs and 178mph, £200 a year to insure.
Slightly lost in this thread as I've not read it all, but it sounds like you are looking for a new car that has a high price tag and good performance that can fit 2 people and 2 dogs. All fine but have you factored running cost, servicing and things like tyres and oils, etc. into the ownership?
Irrelevant of amount of money spent on the vehicle, it will have an on-going list of expenses and the pricier the vehicle the more expensive those constant costs are.
Does that get considered when that amount gets spent or am I just old-fashioned in my thinking?
Millions of them are full of things I don’t like. I don’t click on them.
That's fine but it does not prevent others from popping along to question what you are (thinking of) doing out of a concern that there are far too many people treating roads as a race track and endangering public safety or that it's environmentally wasteful/irresponsible. That's a price of (1) owning that kind of vehicle and (2) posting about it here rather than Piston Heads because this place is not an echo chamber.
SENSIBLE HEAD
As an ex petrol head I can understand people's passion for fast, well handling cars but the performance you can get and the bulk and mass of a mainstream modern car on Britain's overcrowded roads has just reached a point of madness and those who cycle, ride horses and walk on or by our roads are increasingly put at risk by those who should have booked a day at Brands Hatch or who lack the skills or intelligence to drive it appropriately and whose desire to use the power they're spending £500+ a month on overwhelms any interest in the wellbeing of others.
I'm not necessarily putting the OP in that category but the proliferation of rocket ship hatches and saloons and sodding great 4x4s is a concern for many vulnerable road users.
PETROL HEAD
That Alfa looks lovely.
Yeah, the Alfa looks very nice...I think the OP has kind of suggested a VW variant in an earlier post - they may tick the boxes but they also seem to be incredibly dull and predictable - they are so common these days that it seems more interesting when a friend gets a base model rather than the latest performance model from VW - so common they are completely uninteresting.
That yellow Merc looks rather nice and the Alfa (the car not the stupid looking SUV thing) looks very nice indeed.
I'd happily buy either of those but then as soon as it was bought I'd suddenly think about the on-going costs and have a cry to myself as I'd have missed something in the calculations of how long I'd be eating beans for and realise I'd need to add another year on to my bean diet!
Wanting to take dogs out is sounds like the OP is limited to the listed hatch backs or a small estate.
I like my cars and I can understand why people buy fast cars but they are pointless and irrelevant in the UK, whilst not even saying that they are seen as antisocial in many ways these days. This is why I have a track car and do track days. Much more fun than driving on the road. I'd get a boring slow hatch back if I was in the OP's situation and a track car.
I think id go for the alfa giulia if the dogs didnt need to go in the back ,If I were the OP. All those VAG hot hatches are terminally dull (IMO), but very fast and very practical.
I (sort of) understand the people saying theres no point in having a fast car in the UK, but there is pleasure to be had in having a fast car even if you cant use it to anywhere near its capabilities most of the time. Fast cars are typically just nicer (IMO again)than their slower variants, not even taking speed into account, eg the gearbox feels much nicer to use, the brakes are more responsive, the clutch is more responsive, the steering more responsive, the car changes direction in a more agile way, the cabin is usually trimmed to a higher level and is a niver place to be etc. Along with the pleasure you get by knowing that you bought something that you wanted rather than you needed - a bit like having an expensive watch I suppose, or whatever some others spend silly money on when there is a perfectly adequate much cheaper alternative.
If you cant really afford it, and the above gets outweighed by a feeling that its costing you a fortune to have that fast car sat there doing nothing then that particular car is not for you. Fast cars are (usually) a total waste of money when looked at objectively.
I've got a caterham 7 for the track , and a bmw m4 for the road. The m4 virtually never gets used beyond five tenths, but I still like having it, and using it.
there are far too many people treating roads as a race track and endangering public safety
Yep. That's not me. And I don't. Owning and driving a 'fast' car doesn't mean you drive like an idiot. I cycle on the road, walk the dogs in the road, and live with horse stables all around.
Anyway - back to cars, yeah? 😁😁
All fine but have you factored running cost, servicing and things like tyres and oils, etc. into the ownership?
Yep. Service plan. Tyres - £600 every 10,000 miles. But winters and summers.
Wear and tear - probably won't need to worry about pads and discs as I'll have the car for 3 years max.
New = warranty, so no worries about things breaking.
Wear and tear – probably won’t need to worry about pads and discs as I’ll have the car for 3 years max.
Yes you will if you are using your 0-60 in 4 secs out of every corner. Those VAG cars will all be using the brakes to steer the car around the corner as VAG dont know where to put the engines in a car ie they still mount them in front of or on the front axle.
And then when you have done your 0-60 you will be slamming your brakes on again for the next corner. So front discs and pads and rear pads.
Agree with the commments above about having powerful cars isnt a bad thing. They are safer if used correctly, and still plenty of roads where I live where you can safely use speed.
IMO that is where the Caterham makes sense though, you have all the power without the top speed and grip.
A nice dilemma to have.
I'm not sure what the prerequisite for a sub 4 sec 0-60 time is though I have to say. Having a fast fun car is all well and good but given the roads aren't a race track I'm unconvinced massive acceleration out of the corners is really required
Obviously acceleration makes overtaking far safer, however i think if you need a car that goes that fast to overtake someone you are probably looking to overtake in the wrong places!
That said if I had 60k to spend on one fast but practical car I'd probably save my pennies and spend a little extra on an rs4..or buy one second hand. Lovely things..
Golf r looks nice, but I'm not convinced I'd ever spend 40k on a golf.
VW Variant?
How about a 2016 Bentley Continental GT V8 S? 0-60 is 4.3, so it's perhaps a bit slow off the line due to it's weight, but once up and running, it'll muller a Nissan GTR or almost anything else for that matter.
Nice place to be for 3 hours and space for the dog in the back and bike in the boot.
If you really wanted, Stage 1 tuning would get it to ~600hp and stage 2 close to 700hp. Surely enough for any man and his dog and certainly nicer than a GR Yaris, Alfa or a BMW and certainly a Golf R.
That's where my £60k would go.
How about a 2016 Bentley Continental GT V8 S? 0-60 is 4.3, so it’s perhaps a bit slow off the line due to it’s weight, but once up and running, it’ll muller a Nissan GTR or almost anything else for that matter.
Thats the first time 4.3 sec 0-6 has been described as 'a bit slow' surely!! Besides..thats faster than the golf does it..
Gtr would be far faster than the Bentley on anything but a straight drag, and given you can't go more than 70mph anyway, the gtr would be a far more sensible option..and actually a great suggestion if you can get one for 60k
I've never driven a Bentley and have no intention of but surly they are not that fun to drive? Lots of sound deadening, comfy suspensions, 2 + tonnes of weight. No thanks
This on the other hand... videos don't do justice how amazing these engines sound though when driving the car
The GTR rides quite harsh cross country whereas the Bentley doesn't. Whilst I agree that in the hands of a racing driver, the GTR would be faster in almost any circumstances, I think the Bentley would be equally as fast as the GTR in the hands of a novice and be far more compliant on potholled b-roads.
Having been in a GTR and a GT (admittedly an older ~ 2008 one) I wouldn't really want to do long journeys in on a motorway in a GTR. The road noise is bad enough, but the harshness and the exhaust noise would really start to grate after a while.
it’s because Golf R owners kill and maim more people and that’s expensive.
You heard it here first kids.
I’m not sure what the prerequisite for a sub 4 sec 0-60 time is though I have to say
It was pretty arbitrary to get the conversation going. I probably should have given a BHP per KG/Lb, but most folk wouldn't know that!
Sounds like I need to get myself a track car 🙂
Maybe I should change this thread to.... What fast car for the track, and what practical car for the road?
I live reasonably close to the EVO Triangle and some roads near by that IMO are even better.
If I go out on the road bike early in the mornings I quite often get passed by some very exotic fast cars, and some cheap loud fast boy racer cars.
You can hear both sets of cars being driven hard and fast, the nicer cars nearly always slow down to pass or leave plenty of room. I have no issue with a Porsche or Ferrari flying past a full chat if it is safe to do so, they sound and look amazing. Its the boy racers in the Fiesta ST or Corsa etc that drive like idiots that I worry about.
Its the boy racers in the Fiesta ST or Corsa etc that drive like idiots that I worry about.
Couldn't agree more. Your brain is still not developed until into your 20s, so your perception of risk, and risk to others just doesn't exist.
Its the boy racers in the Fiesta ST or Corsa etc that drive like idiots that I worry about.
I had a 1.3 Escort when I was 18 (back in the 80's) - I still drove like a ****! 🙂
Well under budget and not car-snob approved, but a Mk8 Fiesta ST is supposed to be a superb fun car with character. I've driven a Mk7 and it felt like a go kart, but had just as harsh suspension as one! The Mk8 is meant to improve on that.
Haven't read this whole thread. but always find some comments at odds with a cycling forum.
Logically...
Not bad for a 5 litre supercharged V8. It’s barely ticking-over at 70mph
And yet, over 70mph is *strictly speaking* illegal, but let's stick with reality and say anything over 80mph. So where you gonna drive it for fun?
always found them fun for weekends around nice country lanes.
The same ones used by cyclists, horses, walkers etc...?
Sorry, I just don't get the point of fast cars in this country.
It was pretty arbitrary to get the conversation going. I probably should have given a BHP per KG/Lb, but most folk wouldn’t know that!
But thats the modern obsession - POWER. You dont need it to have a fun car.
My hybrid BMW 330e can do 0-60 in under 6 secs with 250bhp. That is more than enough to drive quickly down a B road. In fact I can put it in full electric mode with a full 80bhp and be only fractionally slower. (obviously wouldnt be the case on a very hilly road)
Power is just the way to make a dull car more interesting.
Your brain is still not developed until into your 20s, so your perception of risk, and risk to others just doesn’t exist.
Utter bollox.
I'd far more trust any of my three lads who are all in their 20's than my +80 y/o Mother for example, or even my OH.
Power is just the way to make a dull car more interesting.
Kind of agree with that. I have a boxster, 0-60 in under 6 seconds. At no point have I ever thought 'i wish this was quicker'. It is however a brilliant little car to drive and sounds amazing.
Driving fast is a novelty that wore off for me after about a week.
What fast car for the track, and what practical car for the road?
Ive got this - its a caterham 7 and a bmw m4/alfa giulia,boxster/cayman,911,golf r, audi s/rs etc etc
My hybrid BMW 330e can do 0-60 in under 6 secs with 250bhp. That is more than enough to drive quickly down a B road. In fact I can put it in full electric mode with a full 80bhp and be only fractionally slower. (obviously wouldnt be the case on a very hilly road).
That's kinda the point of power though, isn't it - To overcome inertia. And that feeling of overcoming inertia is what feels great and that's about power and grip. High speed and sharp handling is great on sweepy stuff, but power out of corners, up hills and around stuff is what feels good. You don't need to exceed the speed limit to have fun, but getting to the speed limit quickly can be fun.
I’ve never driven a Bentley and have no intention of but surly they are not that fun to drive? Lots of sound deadening, comfy suspensions, 2 + tonnes of weight. No thanks
Having owned M3s, M6s, Z4MCs, Boxsters, Caymens, Celicas and MR2s - There's something very special about a Bentley - It hides it's weight very well and has a surprising short wheelbase for it's size. There's also something about it that confuses your senses. Like when you pick something large that you expect to be heavy, but it's not. The Bentley behaves like this, it's really odd, but in a very good way. The best way I can describe it is like climbing into a first class airline seat and then being shot around a rollercoaster in that same seat. It's just all round amazing. I truly wanted to hate it but just came away grinning and mightily impressed.
As I said this was an older one and the newer ones are lighter and supposedly better.
"We established we had the road to ourselves" says the guy in that vid. Until a group of walkers, mtbers or whoever who've also got up early to enjoy the sun rise walk/bike drop onto the road for a bit.
He rides a bike and he's prepared to do that, to destroy the peace of a beautuful morning on someone elses island. Its kinda colonial, selfish and just unacceptable. Posting an "influencer" vid on Youtube to encourage others to do the same adding insult to injury.
When our crazy industrial society invades the very remotest havens of tranquility. Go to a track FFS.