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That's it really. Best mate told me just over two weeks ago that wouldn't get the vaccine. He's not a full on nutter, he's not worried about Bill Gates and micro chips etc but he thinks the virus poses less threat. We're mid 40's and he's not worried about catching the virus and is more worried about potential risks from the vaccine. I shouldn't let it bother me but I think once you stop trusting the scientists it's a bit of a slippery slope. I also know he's stubborn as hell and won't change his mind unless he catches it and ends up in hospital in a bad way. Anyway, I just can't stop thinking about it.
Get him really really shit faced then stab him in the arse with a needle
Let him get on with it, its his choice ultimately whether he wants to take the risk of having it versus the risk of not having it. You've had yours presumably, you are as safe as you can be.
Buy him a Hoover
I’m in the same position as my best mate won’t have it (I have). He has his reasons, some of them are valid so I respect his choice and just carry on?
It’s not mandated, he’s entirely free to avoid doing it if he wants.
I’m surprised if it would cause issues if he’s a really good mate? I’m certainly not planning on losing a lifelong friendship over it. None of our other mutual friends have issues with his choice either.
Leave him to it, if he's worried about vaccine side effects he may change his mind as more time passes.
What they said, it's his call.
Life's too short to hang out with stupid people. If his judgement is this poor over vaccines is it going to be good over other issues? I wouldn't cut him off exactly but I find it hard to have much respect for people who are choosing to believe in nonsense.
Each to their own - however, the idea that the vaccine poses more threat than the disease itself is one I personally would find difficult to accept..
I have some neighbours who have gone pretty much tinfoil hat over it & believe it’s a scam. That kind of batsh1t crazy thinking I most definitely have no time for!
It's his choice and if he's a good mate just use it as an excuse to take the P whenever the opportunity arises.
Any good mate will handle the jesting for what it is.
For me that would be a deal breaker and perhaps end of friendship. I wouldn't be in his company indoors or out as he poses a danger to you and others
choosing to believe in nonsense.
It's not complete nonsense.
There is risk in taking any vaccine or medicine.
It's all about when he perceives the risk to be. In his case, he's made a judgement call that as a fit and healthy 40 something, the virus poses little risk to him and he's very unlikely to get seriously ill from it. Which is very true.
Although you could argue that he should take it as it helps reduce transmission rates and it would be beneficial to others.
Personally, as a slightly over weight 52 year old, I'm doubled jabbed.
Similar situation. Friend is well educated, late 40s, and thinks that his risk from the vaccine is higher than his risk from covid. I've had both vaccinations. I also have various other friends who've had variations of long covid, and none of them recommend it.
He also is adamant that he doesn't need to wear a mask since he is exempt - apparently you don't need to wear one if you find it's annoying.
I wouldn't fall out over it but I also wouldn't avoid the topic and would probably call him a helmet at most opportunities
Would make things awkward going forward, I'm not going to happily invite an asymptomatic mate into my home, or goto into their home, or go to any indoor public places with them where masks aren't mandatory.
I'm double jabbed +4 weeks, my partner is double jabbed +12 weeks, but I have no intension of purposefully testing how effect our vaccination or the effective of the vaccines of our elderly relatives just because Boris The Butcher says we can.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map shows most areas of Southampton as floating around or above 400 cases per 100k population in the last 7 days, highest it has been since such data has been available as far as I recall. Covid is rife and apparently the city has one of the worst vaccine take-ups on the south coast.
he’s not worried about Bill Gates and micro chips etc but he thinks the virus poses less threat
If he's seen the numbers and come to that conclusion I'd be more worried about his maths than anything else, though some of the newer strains' vaccine evasion makes it less clear cut than it was for lower risk people.
Vaccines aren't just about protecting ourself, they're about protecting everyone.
If this guy is fit and young there's every chance that even if he caught the disease he'd be ok. That's not really the point.
The vaccine is to help eradicate the disease so that vulnerable members of society don't get it. Once 90%(ish) of the population are vaccinated the disease will probably disappear. Remind your friend that while he might be ok without the vaccine he should have it to protect his parents and grandparents, anyone with respiratory issues, those with Downs Syndrome, etc. etc.
johnners +1.
May be he's an edge case so he's wise to apply caution, but I'll wager he's better at "making shit up" than counting.
People only seem to reveal themselves when stress and decision making falls upon them.
I'd find it VERY difficult to deal with, you will have to make you own call.
There's a lovely Chilean lady at our office who does the cleaning. She hasn't had the vaccine based on the same 'advice' about harm levels. She got this advice from her colleague, the one who tattooed 'CHELSEA FC' on his own forehead.
That's my own intelligence bar for the voluntarily unvaccinated. Your opinion may vary.
His choice really, I'd think we was a bit selfish but it wouldn't bother me that much.
On the other hand if he started to go down the route of a former mate of mine that also used to post on here and start posting anti vax/ it's all a hoax bollocks I'd sack him off quick smart.
I wouldn’t be in his company indoors or out as he poses a danger to you and others
How's that then?. Vaccine reduces severe illness, not transmission.
He is more likely to catch it thus more likely to pass it on.
Vaccine reduces severe illness, not transmission.
A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna) are less likely to have asymptomatic infection or to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html
A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna) are less likely to have asymptomatic infection or to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others.
So, we've only to hang with folks that have vaccines other than AZ? 🤣
Couple of mates at work are anti vax. We spoke about it a while back and that was that. Still mates, each to their own, makes absolutely no difference to our friendship.
I had my second jab the other day.
Maybe,he may pick up a much more dangerous virus, from mooching around on anti vaxing bumf on the tinterweb🤷🏼♂️
Life’s too short to hang out with stupid people.
unfortunately, in my case, it's my eldest son.
I don't understand the reason he's given me, and I'm not sure he does either. He says 'it's too politicised right now, and he'll like to see results of more longitudinal studies'.
I think the truth is more that he wants to keep his girlfriend on side so is going along with her nonsense.
Predictably, he's now caught it (multiple positive tests) and is laid up feeling rough. His girlfriend has same symptoms as him but denies having covid.
Ask him if you can have dibs on his bike/s if anything should happen?
Just so you will have something to remember him by.
makes absolutely no difference to our friendship.
This.
It's quite bizarre, the idea of only having friends who think the same way as you do.
Life’s too short to hang out with stupid people.
I don’t think this helps. Calling people stupid isn’t a good way to get them to consider changing their minds. At the end of the day it’s a choice and some people choose not to have it. Unless it becomes obligatory those of us who take the vaccine will just have to live with that fact.
Leave them to it. Arrange to meet up for a beer with them next summer. Say it’s a shame that it’ll have to wait ‘till then.
Vaccine reduces severe illness, not transmission.
This isn’t true. What is true is that trials for all the vaccines were focused on preventing illness (and overall safety) not transmission, but there has been plenty of evidence since that transmission is also reduced… but importantly, if that is to make any difference to our lives, it requires the vast majority of people to be vaccinated. That includes teens. And it also includes older people currently avoiding the vaccines because of their individual perception of risk to themselves.
makes absolutely no difference to our friendship.
This.
It’s quite bizarre, the idea of only having friends who think the same way as you do.
If we were talking about appreciation of art or whether pineapple is acceptable on a pizza I think you'd have a point. If on the other hand if we're talking about someone who presumably won't suffer any meaningful side effects from a vaccine and will help eradicate an awful disease and help others into the bargain...
Eejits.
This isn’t true
I've never seen any large scale evidence, so tend to still keep my distance.
If we were talking about appreciation of art or whether pineapple is acceptable on a pizza I think you’d have a point
Religion, the middle east, politics, sport.... There's lots of stuff I have differing opinions from my mates on, but ditch one on a single opinion?. Not me. Fair enough if one of them outed themself as racist, or a bit rapey, but it's hardly that is it.
Has he viewed any statements from people who thought the vaccine was a bad idea only to catch the virus and regret it ?. There are a number of those in the papers, all saying the same that they so regret their actions in not being vaccinated when they had the opportunity.
I think there are different levels of anti vax. Those that right or wrong look at the evidence and make a choice. It is their choice and while you might try and counter the strength of their evidence and / or their logic in the end we all have freedom to choose. I wouldn't fall out over it but I would be circumspect about giving them the chance to mix and pass it on which is my choice.
Then there's those that actively spread these falsehoods and conspiracy theories, for what ends I don't know but commonly seems to be just to cause argument and division. I'm pretty well out of patience with them.
Well he is risking being one of the people who may still put pressure on the NHS.
Each to their own – however, the idea that the vaccine poses more threat than the disease itself is one I personally would find difficult to accept..
And one that should be questioned with him with a simple "what data are you looking at to suggest the vaccine poses more threat that any effects of catching Covid?"
Refuses the vaccine and refuses to wear a mask, last year or so been a total pain due to being clinically vulnerable and it's a lot to do with people like him unwilling to do the responsible thing to help society combat this pandemic.
For me that would be a deal breaker and perhaps end of friendship. I wouldn’t be in his company indoors or out as he poses a danger to you and others
Not sure about that TBH, if he's following all other rules (now social norms) and continues to wear a mask, making sure to limit his risk of passing on the virus to others, I see no reason to just cut the fella loose.
It's worth remembering even once you're double jabbed you're just as able to be a carrier/spreader, half the problem now is boomers who've been vaccinated, think they can slack off on other control measures and don't understand their duty of care to others...
Ultimately, despite being double jabbed now I can't say I never had misgivings about the various vaccines, their rapid development and trialing, etc. Issues like the clotting side effects for younger recipients of AZ highlight that point. On balance I felt the risks were minimal and overall preferable to to the higher fatality risk from covid itself. But simply dismissing a friend's concerns as "stupid" isn't going to help either your friendship or to convince him...
It’s quite bizarre, the idea of only having friends who think the same way as you do.
The idea of having some kind of shared values with your friends is weird?
He's prioritising his own needs/perceived wellbeing over the good of society. There's a lot of people like that about, I have limited time for them.
Tricky one. I can't see how someone that age can look at the data and come to that conclusion, so I'd be wondering what else is pushing them that way.
I'd not be refusing to have anything to do with them though. Being odd and/or stupid is a prerequisite for being mates with me.
half the problem now is boomers who’ve been vaccinated
...and the other half?
It’s worth remembering even once you’re double jabbed you’re just as able to be a carrier/spreader, half the problem now is boomers who’ve been vaccinated, think they can slack off on other control measures and don’t understand their duty of care to others…
don't disagree on the bit about taking reasonable precautions whether vaxxed, 2x vaxxed, etc.
but there is growing evidence to suggest that vaccination does reduce transmission - about ten posts above yours.
He’s prioritising his own needs/perceived wellbeing over the good of society.
How do you know that? I know folks who've been double jagged, and carry on now as if this shit is over.
Others who aren't sure about the vaccine, but take all precautions.
Which one would you rather spend time with?.
It’s quite bizarre, the idea of only having friends who think the same way as you do.
irts nothing to do with that and everything to do with finding out one of your friends is a selfish arse who is prepared to put you and yours in danger because of being dimwitted