[Closed] We live in a divided country

Hope yo u have your flameproof suit on tom - you are about to be flamed for supporting criminal scum

I hope you dont Tom, as you seem to express the sheer pointlessness of it well. There are however the people out on the streets that aren't the disenfranchised masses, but idiots stealing for fun and because they'd be out burgling houses anyway if they wern't doing that.

We do.

Let's burn stuff and nick trainers.

they'll be wasting there lives in prison soon.

Hmm.. this is actually a tough one.

Sometimes people are actually oppressed. However sometimes they are just crap at taking the opportunities that are there. And I'm sure some are just using this as an excuse to have a tear up.

Hard to know from just reading the papers really.

?"When you cut facilities, slash jobs, abuse power, discriminate, drive people into deeper poverty & shoot people dead whilst refusing to provide answers or justice, the people will rise up & express their anger & frustration if you refuse to hear their cries. A riot is the language of the unheard". Martin Luther King

simply left without resource or hope of enablement

Last year we looked to employ 6 apprentices for a workshop we have in East London repairing broadcast equipment etc.

I sat in on 2 days when we had initial interviews/meet the company sort of sessions
You wouldn't believe the number that simply failed to show, turned up late, inappropriately dressed [hood up with cap underneath etc.] or showed absolutely no interest whatsoever other than turning up on the day [if not the time] they were asked to

So there is hope and resource but it's a bit like leading a horse to water

I won't be out robbing and burning stuff tonight because;

I can't be out too late as I've got work tomorrow, I don't want to be tired at work and make mistakes then risk losing my job, then I'd struggle with my mortgage payments and lose the house that I've worked so hard to afford!

Then again, **** it, I'll get a free house, free health care, free this, free that. Then I'll go and kick the doors in of the Bang and Olufson shop in town and help myself to a £5000 sound system!

Then I think I'll set fire to the little family owned Florist that has been there for 30 years!

That'll show them. Then everyone will want to invest in my run down area!

there just acting like normal kids.. you give give give to them for so many years, whitout question, or reason, or asking for anything in return.. then take it all away they will throw a tantrum.

bring it tj, people are treating htemselves like babies if they are not letting this get through.

you can hold the opinion that it's disgraceful and at the same time understandable.

We live in a divided country

I noticed this in 1981...

... Oh, hold on 🙁

Hope yo u have your flameproof suit on tom - you are about to be flamed for supporting criminal scum

Oh to live in a world without shades of grey.....

there just acting like normal kids

That's some screwed up definition of normal kids you have there.

In fact,

I almost choked on the irony - listening to the Home Secretary on the radio driving to work today. John Humphries missed a brilliant opportunity for a put down 😈

Theresa May...

[b]"These have been the worst scenes of violence and disturbance on our streets for many, many years, ...."[/b]

Ahh, yes, I remember - [b]THE LAST TIME YOU TWUNTS WERE IN POWER[/b]

tom - not by me but by the reactionary ranters. Maybe they are all too busy on the main thread.

I sat in on 2 days when we had initial interviews/meet the company sort of sessions
You wouldn't believe the number that simply failed to show, turned up late, inappropriately dressed [hood up with cap underneath etc.] or showed absolutely no interest whatsoever other than turning up on the day [if not the time] they were asked to

Possibly most of those had already been told by society that they were destined to fail.

How many applications for those apprenticeships, uplink, and how many interviews?

We live in a society that urges us to consume, but for a lot of these kids there's no way to buy the things that the white middle class are telling them they need. A minimum wage job is more than most of them can hope for- don't forget that for every one of us sitting in an office posting on here on a work connection during worktime there's a dozen or so others on low wages working their butt off just to survive. Not everybody can find jobs high up the food chain- it must be shit being the office cleaner working harder than most people on here when you're hardly earning enough to survive

Do you deserve to be paid the money you do?

How many applications for those apprenticeships, uplink, and how many interviews?

Don't know how many applications but we had around 20 show up for the 6 places of which we ended up taking 2 [both girls]

A minimum wage job is more than most of them can hope for- don't forget that for every one of us sitting in an office posting on here on a work connection during worktime there's a dozen or so others on low wages working their butt off just to survive. Not everybody can find jobs high up the food chain- it must be shit being the office cleaner working harder than most people on here when you're hardly earning enough to survive

uplink - Member

simply left without resource or hope of enablement

Last year we looked to employ 6 apprentices for a workshop we have in East London repairing broadcast equipment etc.

I sat in on 2 days when we had initial interviews/meet the company sort of sessions
[b]You wouldn't believe the number that simply failed to show, turned up late, inappropriately dressed [hood up with cap underneath etc.] or showed absolutely no interest whatsoever other than turning up on the day [if not the time] they were asked to[/b]

So there is hope and resource but it's a bit like leading a horse to water
Posted 3 seconds ago # Report-Post

In the recent past I have had construction jobs on big estates in London and I have offered work to the local lads and had the same experiences as Uplink describes. I work with a large multinational builder and they get criticised for not employing locals. They find they have the same problems as myself with local labour. Their workforce is generally made up of a diverse range of nationalities sourced from all around the world. Up until the last few years there has been a huge number of jobs in construction but you had to start at the bottom if you were inexperienced. Many people without work would not be prepared to start at the bottom.

I guess that you would have to ask the individuals why they didn't want to work but I could have a guess why.

I believe that another problem is with low level crime. It seems to be tolerated in some areas. Why? Our society has got some problems that need addressing and it needs someone with balls to turn round and say it as it is. If we don't confront it and deal with it, then recent events in London will repeat themselves.

The people on the streets over the last few nights weren't rioting, they were stealing. They weren't all kids that had just left school without prospects. There were all kinds of people just helping themselves to stuff that wasn't theirs or just looking for trouble. One woman on the news last night said she was getting her taxes back! FFS! Not this countries finest moment.

One woman on the news last night said she was getting her taxes back! FFS!

Wouldn't it be a shame if some of the ****ers carrying the petrol cans got trapped in the shop they just set alight. They wouldn't be throwing rocks at the brigade then would they, just begging for their help!! The only people I feel sorry for amongst this whole mess are the residents and the emergency services picking up the pieces!!

amazing MLK quote for now. i worry about what is going to happen because though there clearly is a hysteria of smash and grab, a blind, jubilant rage, this whole 'sheer criminality' rhetoric by the gov started when rioters were, around 7-8 last night actually far more focussed, in Hackney and Peckhm at least, on seeking out confrontation with the police, i.e. that, at that time the rhetoric was political BS for those in the home counties. now it looks like the gov are acting policewise to stop more damage/theft, and for, what started with political reasons, ignoring the fact that many people want to attack the police. i worry people will be killed. there aren't going to be any 'just' acts of violence on the police's part according to the communities like that in Tottenham, it'll all stoke the flames. but the police have a good excuse to commit any acts of violence in the eyes of those who essentially support the gov, because they can say they were apprehending looters.

however, overall i am optimistic that the chaos won't conitinue on the same scale tonight.

however, overall i am optimistic that the chaos won't conitinue on the same scale tonight.

The thing that gets me is the government line that this is pure criminality, aye right. fair do's that's a given, it still leads to the same questions whether you trot that line out or not, why do we have such a large underclass in our society? And what are the solutions to the associated problems. These are question that are not going to be answered on forums as they are far too complex and long term action is needed. The government needs to be asking itself these questions, and if not, well we need to be voting them out...

We live in a divided country

agreed, however what we disagree on is whether the divisions are imposed upon people, or divisions of their own making!

When I was a student I didn't get an educational maintenance allowance - I worked in Mcdonalds and in pubs doing part time jobs to pay my way through college. Before that I did a YTS to get real job experience before going to college. After college I took a job with a basic wage of 9k and worked overtime, before rising up the ladder and getting paid more as time went on, and supported a family by working overtime and weekends.

There are Lads I went to school with, that have never done a day's work in their lives.

I suppose thats society's fault!

Thing is, we were in the same class!

So, what are those divisions again?

however what we disagree on is whether the divisions are imposed upon people, or divisions of their own making

TandemJeremy - Member
Hope yo u have your flameproof suit on tom - you are about to be flamed for supporting criminal scum
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

Yawn...

There is no such thing as society.

As you progress to both the top and bottom of society you have people who are rewarded for failure and who inflict damage to the majority for their own gain. As ever, the middle is the worst place to be.

Think you missed a nought off that figure MF! Rather than 6000 there's gonna be 160000, that's a lot of old bill!!!

So, what are those divisions again?

(Multi-generational) Lack of education, inclination and interest

Think you missed a nought off that figure MF! Rather than 6000 there's gonna be 160000, that's a lot of old bill!!!

I think he's possible added and extra 0!

Think you missed a nought off that figure MF! Rather than 6000 there's gonna be 160000, that's a lot of old bill!!!

And I think you added a nought - 16,000 police tonight, not 160,000!!

EDIT: Beaten!! 😀

It's way too complex to be able to sum up in a few lines here and I doubt that anyone has the answer if truth be told.

There are deep routed societal problems which need to be tackled and it would take a generation or so to fix the problems if they were tackled, but I don't think they will be.

IMO it's about taking responsibility for yourself, your family and especially your children and ensuring somehow that your net effect on society is a positive one, not a negative one.

😳 😆

IMO it's about taking responsibility for yourself, your family and especially your children and ensuring somehow that your net effect on society is a positive one, not a negative one.

And all the time we allow people to continue sucking off the teat of the state telling us about their entitlements, rather than having to face up and take some responsibility, we'll never solve it.

as long as working is seen as an optional lifestyle choice, we'll never solve it

Tell me, do you think that the people coming to work in the UK from all over Europe would be coming here if they thought they'd be better off saying at home on the local version of the dole? Have you spoken to any Poles about why they are here, and what they think of the British welfare state?

they'll be wasting there lives in prison soon.

The prisons are full.

A few thoughts/solutions:
1. Get the police back into the more unpleasant areas of social deprivation, get them known, help them teach kids what is right and what is wrong.
2. On that subject, ensure there is a consequence to their crimes, be it prison or community service.
3. Educate kids that there are chances out there for them but they take work and effort to get there. I am of the firm belief that you can be successful whatever your background but you have to be prepared to work for it.
4. Remove any incentive for people not to work and ensure it is not a lifestyle choice. If I can't afford a 42" plasma and a new car when I work 50 hours week, why should someone who choose not to work be able to?
5. Give people role models, they need to be looking up to the guy who worked hard and now runs his own business or who worked his backside off to get out of the estate instead of the guy who sells the most crack on the estate.

All this costs money and how you raise that may depend on your political leanings.

Now flame away...

This is what happens when uneducated people get bored, lack of education leads to violence....protesting about nothing

Ahh, yes, I remember - THE LAST TIME YOU TWUNTS WERE IN POWER

Of course this is all a result of the current government, not. It is a result of years of issues, not just a few months of this government. Imo it is all about stupidty rather than anything more deep.

I am surprised at people blaming the Government for the unrest.

I am also surprised at Alistair Campbell political point scoring on Twitter too - let's leave the posturing until the riots have stopped ehh?

People always misquote it so in full..

I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation.

And no, I'm not a fan.

You can argue with her politics all you want but that quote taken on face value is fairly on the ball whichever way your political leaning are.