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That's correct binners. Wealthy people don't have to do anything as sordid as rely on earned income.
That's correct binners. Wealthy people don't have to do anything as sordid as rely on earned income.
True of only a tiny fraction of the wealthy.
Fair play. Being in the top 1% of earners in the UK doesn't make you wealthy at all.
That's right it doesn't, or at least isn't not a simple as that. It has been said many, many times having a high salary does not necessarily make you wealthy and having a low salary does not necessarily make you poor. There is more to wealth than salary and for anyone not hard of thinking this isn't a difficult concept to grasp.
My own salary is pretty high and I'm not is an poor a shape financially as these people, but were I to lose my job I'd likely loose my house and begin to struggle relatively quickly. It might be a few months rather than days but the point stands that I, like these people, still need to work in order to live.
Not quite top 1%, but very hard to argue they're not wealthy:
According to that first graph they are nowhere near 1%. Given the net worth of their two properties is around 360k and assuming no other assets that would put them about 60%
Fair play. Being in the top 1% of earners in the UK doesn't make you wealthy at all.
Wealth <> income. They could actually be splashing it all on coke and hookers.
Interestingly, people on the average wage (c£25k) earn more than 60% of the population.
There is more to wealth than salary
Other platitudes include "money can't buy you happiness" and are invariably trotted out by people who have money.
Other platitudes include "money can't buy you happiness" and are invariably trotted out by people who have money.
You've missed my point as I was referring to assets such as property, shares, artwork etc not anything like "family" or "happiness". My usual retort to the statement "money can't buy you happiness" is "yeah, but it makes the misery a whole lot easier to live with."
Not read the article but 190k soon goes.
190k gross
-95k (50% for tax and NI)
-30k (2 x school fees)
-30k (2.5k mortgage x 12)
= 35k net
That leaves just 35k to buy the other things that sort of money is usually spent on such as:
- s****y car
- pension contributions
- investments (ISAs, other property etc)
- new shoes for tarquin and fifi
- hummus
Not sure what my point is - maybe just that it's easy for that kind of money top be spent without being too* frivolous.
*ok, a big London house, private school and nice car could be seen as frivalous
-
According to that first graph they are nowhere near 1%.
1% of EARNERS? Not wealth.
I'd hazard a guess that a lot of the 1% net worth individuals have never had to do anything as unsavoury as actually earn any of their money
Its hard to work out from that graph but at a guess they'd be somewhere between 55-60% on that graph and that is tied up in 2 illiquid assets. So definitely not poor but not troubling the wealthy either.
with a household income of 200k a year, doesn't make you wealthy at all.
You can't tell how long the household has been taking in £190k, oppositely there are some pensioners working for low annual wages but with a lot of wealth in assets. Annual salary is a poor indicator of total wealth IMO.
I'd hazard a guess that a lot of the 1% net worth individuals have never had to do anything as unsavoury as actually earn any of their money
Probably and hence would be by definition the Upper Class, this lot however, clearly do need to work and are Middle Middle Class aspiring to be Upper Middle.
What salary do you need to be upper middle then? Is it much more than the pittance they're scraping by on?
Is [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8148899.stm ]this[/url] upper middle or upper?
a big London house
They have a £750,000 house in South West London, that is unlikely to be a big house. In the better areas you would be looking at a flat for that amount.
Being in the top fraction in one of the richest countries in the world isn't wealthy.
Apparently.
190k gross
-95k (50% for tax and NI)
-30k (2 x school fees)
-30k (2.5k mortgage x 12)
= 35k net
You're about 20k out on the tax and NI
So £55k in readies for hummus and pastel polo shirts.
You're about 20k out on the tax and NI
Plus rental income. Let's call it £65k.
The privations they must endure...
Plus rental income. Let's call it £65k.
The rental income covers the BTL interest and that's it but as has been said many times already they are not saying they aren't well off, they are asking for advice on how to afford school fees.
£750k is barely enough for a pokey 3-bed terrace in the nicer (and even less nice) bits of SW London. You can spend considerably more on something too small for a family.
I still don't understand why people have such an issue with a couple earning good money. They are not scroungers, they did not inherit it, they work and earn. It is like they are committing a crime.
Assuming no pension relief, if they each earned £95k they'd take home £10,400 between them each month...
Year Month Week
Gross Wage £95,000 £7,917 £1,827
Taxable Wage £84,400 £7,033 £1,623
Tax Paid £27,403 £2,284 £527
Tax Free Allowance £10,600 £883 £204
National Insurance £5,171 £431 £99
Take-home pay £62,426 £5,202 £1,200
Being in the top fraction in one of the richest countries in the world isn't wealthy.Apparently.
Well if you're going to use a global perspective there are very few people in the UK who aren't wealthy!
hey are asking for advice on how to afford school fees.
Don't spaff more than 55k a year would appear to be the answer.
The rental income covers the BTL interest and that's it but as has been said many times already they are not saying they aren't well off, they are asking for advice on how to afford school fees.
Advice as follows:
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.
Next!
edit, way too slow ➡
I still don't understand why people have such an issue with a couple earning good money.
People have an issue with them earning [s]good[/s] an exceptionally large amount of money, then complaining that they don't have enough of it.
Ay, ya gotta think of the children in all of this.. Must be embarrassed having Mater n Pater splashed all over t'interwebz proclaiming "fiffi and foofo can't go to blah di blah school"
Honestly.
You'd think if they needed advice on money worries they'd chuck £400 at an Independant Financial adviser or Accountant to help sort them out...
Tim nice but dim springs to mind.
Oh, and the child benefit, don't forget that...bloody benefit scroungers.
Just for you Binners, a George Orwell quote on class in The Road to Wigan Pier
Probably the distinguishing mark of the upper-middle class was that its traditions were not to any extent commercial, but mainly military, official, and professional.People in this class owned no land, but they felt that they were
landowners in the sight of God and kept up a semi-aristocratic outlook by
going into the professions and the fighting services rather than into
trade.
I still don't understand why people have such an issue with a couple earning good money. They are not scroungers, they did not inherit it, they work and earn. It is like they are committing a crime.
If you prick us, do we not bleed?
If you tickle us, do we not laugh?
If you poison us, do we not die?
😉
The real question - leaving aside stressing about whether their income is sufficient to pass the STW acceptability crfiteria* - is not whether they can find the school fees from their current income but is whether they can sustain it for the whole of their children's time at school.
Having watched people whose parents hit hard times have to leave the fee paying school they enjoyed and had friends in to land in the nearest state school, I'd say that should be higher up the risk chart when embarking on a private education.
*Audi, wood burner, Orange 5, work in IT earning more than average but wouldn't like to admit it publicly etc.
dragon - Member
...Annual salary is a poor indicator of total wealth IMO.
Possibly. But only, it seems, when distinguishing people who are different kinds of loaded.
What exactly are the doing to spend that kind of money each month?
Biodynamic pinot grigio isn't cheap, you know
What exactly are the doing to spend that kind of money each month?
He'll be boffing the Au-pair and she'll be boffing her Personal Trainer.....
[i]He'll be boffing the Au-pair and she'll be boffing her Personal Trainer..... [/i]
🙂
The only way that sentence could be better was if the second boffing was, perhaps, a biffing.
Upper class is nothing to do with wealth - it is birth, breeding and marriage.
[b]nickC[/b] And they won't get child benefit - that went for over £50k years ago.
And they [i]aren't[/i] complaining - they are asking advice.
Seems an odd thing for happy STWrs to get upset about.
And they aren't complaining - they are asking advice.
"Financially broken" wasn't emotive at all, I'm sure. And the advice is so exceptionally simple, that anyone with a brain cell could work it out for themselves.
Stoatsbrother - MemberSeems an odd thing for happy STWrs to get upset about.
i'm not upset, i think it's hilarious. and baffling.
and i'm here for the biscuits.
any garibaldis?
And they aren't complaining - they are asking advice.
I think they're actually gloating, it's all a subterfuge to show off a bit...
"But the pair are worried about becoming “financially broken” as the sheer cost of middle-class life in London means they are stretched to the brink."
They've sought advice, they are worried, they are not saying they earn too little. The BTL tax changes and kids getting older will impact on them. I don't see them blaming any one or asking for money.
Do I feel sorry for them? No - the answers are pretty simple.
Probably they have a friend who is a hack journalist who needed a victim for his column. Anyone her trust a journalist to accurately report what you say?
nickC And they won't get child benefit - that went for over £50k years ago.
Over £60K (you can claim, but it's recovered at a rate of 1% per £100 over £50K gross, so once you pass 60K it's just admin for no benefit) but your point stands.
Ask me and HMRC how I know this very well now 👿 hopefully it'll save some other poor sod some bother. Tax liability appears to be something you really do need to teach yourself even if you are PAYE.
I'm glad I earn a fraction of what they do, so I've never been in a position to balls up my personal finances.
Odd thing to say. As I'm sure you're perfectly aware, many people earning the same, and less, than you have ballsed up their personal finances.
Sarcasm doesn't come across well online.
We've never earned enough to consider getting a £2.5k mortgage, sending my kids to private school, getting a BTL flat, spending £5k on a holiday, shopping exclusively at Waitrose, running two massive cars, etc.
So, we're stuck "getting by" on a combined £3k per month take home and, because my wife helps run the local food bank and we're friends with a varied mix of people, realising that we're very well off indeed.
Seems an odd thing for happy STWrs to get upset about.
seriously! it presses all the STW hand wringing buttons:
people earning more them them and being perceived to not work as hard.
privileged
London
Legal
middle class but somehow reminding them of their own aspirations and failings
buy to let.
750k property.
the orgiastic ego pandering of shamelessly airing ones laundry in the media
5k holidays.
affording 5k holidays taken in term time.
offspring with posh names, their cosseted lives and the odious people they will become.
big kitchen with shiny coffee machine
Audi
London
Ocado
Boden catalogue on favourites tab
5k full suss ridden once a year at trail centre, cant ride for toffee.
Is it not still valid to ask for opinion and views on how to manage your finances when the numbers become larger?
Yes they have lots of options, but they still need to choose.
I worked for a bloke who lived in a castle once. He used to make financial decisions too.
Don't see the issue really, they are making good money, good luck to them.
seriously! it presses all the STW hand wringing buttons:
Yep! All the usual logical gymnastics to redefine "wealthy" cos people don't want to admit that they are.
Boden catalogue on favourites tab
You know, until just then I thought Boden and Bodum were the same thing. I'd never really worked out why they were held up as a marker of middleclass-ness