I am very much against the death penalty but have an interest in self euthanasia.
I thought helium was the thing for 'exit hoods'.
I thought helium was the thing for ‘exit hoods’.
I think i'll stick with the sausage thanks
guess I feel particularly sensitive to this because I have seen many folk in respiratory distress at end of life and its awful
It’s absolutely awful, COPD and life threatening asthma especially. Their eyes beg you to help one way or another, sometimes you just can’t.
Yup - its really triggerd me now. I shouldn't have contributed to this thread.
I am sorry if I have seemed lighthearted in this thread, and if thats caused any distress. My interest comes from watching friends and family go through terrible deaths with no way out. I am reaching the age where I am getting more likely to get ill, and I'm not going to leave it to our government to decide whether or not I am allowed a peaceful and painless end. I don't fear death, I fear a bad death.
Thats not what distressed me sweepy. Nothing you said - I too can be very flippant
the idea of this man dying like that is what triggered me. Brought back some nasty memories
That’s why I have my exit planned for when my spms gets to the stage of needing excessive help for my daily function, mum already does everything in house for me, I can stand and shuffle about by bars fitted around house but I feel my arms and upper body going rapidly south, when I can’t wipe my own arse or wash myself (I’m already down to one shower every few weeks due to effort involved) then I’m gone. Mum, brother and closet mate know what’s coming.
Sorry TJ, didn't anticipate that when starting the thread. Sweepy, a different subject to the OP, but I agree. I think we should all have the option to go on our own terms when the time comes.
CO2 triggers your body to breath more, and would result in you continually gasping for air as CO2 builds up in your body.
Only at lower levels, above 10% its toxic and throws your lungs into respiratory arrest. Which I'd imagine is pretty grim in itself.
I have similar memories my friend. This isn't really the thread for it but I do wish we could be allowed clear information and the autonomy to act.
The death penalty is an abomination, it shouldn't have happened but nobody there was impartial, he wanted to live, his representatives wanted him to live and so did opponents of the death penalty, others wanted him to die, and some of them wanted him to die as unpleasantly as possible. If we had a clear picture of the efficacy of nitrogen as a means of euthanasia rather than execution many people could be spared fear and suffering when they face the end.
CO just displaces oxygen
Kind of - it's not just displacing in the lungs, CO binds to haemoglobin and outcompetes oxygen for the binding sites hence why even low levels can lead to chronic poisoning. Get a detector and sweep your wood burner chimneys!!
sweepy / somafunk
I have started some threads around dignity in dying. want to open them up again?
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/dignity-in-dying/
I recently read about a suicide pod being developed in Switzerland that uses nitrogen
That would be this one. The inventor Philip Nitschke is Australian. He has sought advice regarding the legality of its use in Switzerland.
I reckon going out I the cold is a better way to go than a capsule full of nitrogen.
TJ, I would, but I think the moral argument has largely been won and now the real obstacle is our lawmakers, and religion. Drugs similar.
What i want is honest discussion of an individuals options should the state not allow assistance, and that is rarely welcome possibly for valid reasons.
I did read that a lot of drug production companies simply won’t supply drugs for the execution of people, big pharma with a social concience? seems a bit ironic when the streets of america are awash with with super powerfull synthetic opioids.
Don't be silly 😀 they just don't want the companies name associated with it, it might affect sales....
sweepy - sent you a PM
I did wonder why they didn’t just put a bunch of smouldering disposable BBQs in the room – or is CO too painless ?
I think one of the complications is that some “humanity” rules seem to entitle the convict the right to have a religious representative with them - so they can’t simply fill an air tight room - you need to wear a positive pressure mask to supply the gas. Still seems odd that they can’t use ether/chloroform as part of the mix - those are easily manufactured and widely available without pesky drug companies getting involved.
nothing they do really surprises me - we only treat them like a civilised country because they are mostly white, speak English and are economically prosperous. Take away any of those elements and we would be much more critics of their human rights.
UN: ‘Death penalty is an anachronism that doesn’t belong in the 21st century’
Following the execution of Kenneth Smith, Ravina Shamdasani, spokesperson for the United Nations Human Rights Office said that the death penalty was “an anachronism that doesn’t belong in the 21st Century.”
“We deeply regret the execution of Kenneth Eugene Smith in Alabama despite serious concerns that this novel and untested method of suffocation by nitrogen gas may amount to torture, cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment,” she said.
“Let's just bring an end to the death penalty. This is an anachronism that doesn't belong in the 21st century.
“There is no proof that the death penalty deters crime, but on the contrary, there is a lot of evidence of miscarriages of justice. The death penalty is inconsistent with the fundamental right to life, and we urge all states to put in place a moratorium on its use as a step towards universal abolition.”
Since 1973, 196 former death-row prisoners have been exonerated of all charges related to the wrongful convictions that had put them on death row.<br /><br />
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/innocence
One thing I have respect for Micheal Howard for. He used to be in favour of capital punishment but after the Guilford and Birmingham acquittals he publicly changed his mind as they would have been hung.
Its one of the issues with capital punishment. Mistakes get made and although getting out of prison with compo is not a great recompense for years inside its a darn sight better than being in a grave
Really good interview with a US based UK lawyer on The News Agents.
Just highlights how mental the system is over there but also highlights problems with the UK justice system as well.
Well worth a listen.
https://www.globalplayer.com/podcasts/episodes/7DrhkE2/
Executions don't brutalise society. Anti social scum do. Bloody good idea this. If death isn't enough deterrent then maybe a painful one will help.
Crime must be punished. Heavily. Persuasion doesn't work with criminals. More to the point, it has nothing to do with us so people should mind their own business.
^^^
Nearly every single in that post is just incorrect.
Looks like something from the Daily Heil comments.
Wow. Calm down Judge Dredd. Have you considered a move to Saudi Arabia? You'd love it there. Though perhaps you'd prefer it if they used butter knives instead of swords to make the pain levels a bit more to your liking.
More to the point, it has nothing to do with us so people should mind their own business.
And yet here you are, doing the exact opposite of that.
Good podcast Gobuchul 👍
Most of the episodes are good but I thought that was exceptional. Very informative.
Mattsscm - then explain why the US with its punitive judicial system, 3 strikes and you are out and death penalty has such a high crime and murder rate whereas Sweden with a low rate of imprisonment, a judicial system based around rehabilitation has such a low crime rate
Mattsccm is a troll, he’s got form for being a dick
IMO people can do as they wish with their own life as they see fit, so long as that make them "happy". (Note: all major religions prohibit taking own life)
However, when a person crossed the line by taking or violating others life, against the will of those who wish to continue living etc, such as murder, they need to face or accept the consequences. If the consequences mean capital punishment by the state in a horrific way so be it. Revenge has nothing to do with it.
Well, unless the murderer can turn back the clock and to put things right again, they should face the penalty in whatever form there is deems fit by the society (law).
"Revenge" etc in the form of capital punishment impose by the state is just a "closure" for the victim(s).
If the guilty person is really showing remorse or "repent" of his/her past action, then guilty will naturally understand or accept that forfeiting his/her own life for the past heinous action is the "law of the nature". It is when the guilty fights the law to stay alive that prevents the closure and acts against the balance of the nature. i.e. action has consequences.
In the event of wrongful conviction (self defense etc), then either the investigation continues by proofing the innocence or letting the nature takes it course. i.e. the latter is rooted in the belief that "karma has ripen".
No place for religion in this conversation chewkw. So your karma stance means nothing. Also your law of nature line makes absolutely no sense at all. No death penalty in nature. America is simply a backwards country with a host of issues. The death penalty has no place in a modern society and doesn’t work as a deterrent to crime at all.
The US is more than capable of having somewhere for a convicted person to spend the rest of their lives so the reason for executing them makes me wonder if its more about a message to keep the rest of the population in check(doesnt seem to have worked)
Personally I think the practise should be banned, and as above a whole life tariff imposed, which at least means if that person is found innocent years or decades later, they at least have someone to release.
No place for religion in this conversation chewkw. So your karma stance means nothing. Also your law of nature line makes absolutely no sense at all. No death penalty in nature. America is simply a backwards country with a host of issues. The death penalty has no place in a modern society and doesn’t work as a deterrent to crime at all.
Nothing to do with religion. Since the discussion is about moral (some of the threads starting taking about moral etc) then some forms of association with "religious" belief is normally present.
If the discussion is about the "moral of science" (as in we created death penalty for revenge etc) then moral does not come into the discussion other than the way the system works. i.e. it is the law of the science or moral is injected into Science. Science itself does not distinguish the good or bad moral. It has no belief other than the way things work.
I used the term "nature" as in everything in this existence falls into the realm of "nature" as far as I am concerned.
Death penalty has been in place since the existence of mankind, even in the animal kingdom death penalty is imposed in various form that human interpreted differently.
Just because a death penalty is apparent in certain society, it does not signify a backward society other than the consequences of a particular action.
Deterrent to crime etc? It is not always about deterrent. It might work for some but will not work for others. By applying the logic of science (not a good example), if a product is damaged we simply discard them. If we were to repair them, there is no guarantee this can prevent other similar product from being damaged. The only way to prevent the product from being damaged is to ensure future similar product is made properly, otherwise we discard them.
That’s some of the most astounding bullshit I’ve ever read! That’s quite the statement considering some stuff you’ve posted over the years. I don’t even know where to start so it’s safest not to bother
That’s some of the most astounding bullshit I’ve ever read! That’s quite the statement considering some stuff you’ve posted over the years. I don’t even know where to start so it’s safest not to bother
As I mentioned many times in many other threads, there seem to be inconsistency in "rational thoughts". i.e. science vs phenomena or belief whatever.
Science itself has no emotion other than pure logic and rational. Is capital punishment a science? i.e. system?
if a product is damaged we simply discard them. If we were to repair them, there is no guarantee this can prevent other similar product from being damaged. The only way to prevent the product from being damaged is to ensure future similar product is made properly, otherwise we discard them
People aren't 'products' to 'discard'. Sounds like a similar argument to that used by the Nazis to justify gassing disabled people.
America is simply a backwards country with a host of issues.
I agree that the United States has a host of issues but dismissing it as backwards is a misrepresentation imo. The issues are mostly political and necessarily a reflection of how advanced the US is as a society.
When the US Supreme Court declared capital punishment unconstitutional in 1972 and effectively banned it I think most countries still had the death penalty.
Although it was reinstituted four years later at a federal level it still remains abolished in almost half of all states. Even in some of the states where it hasn't been officially abolished I believe that capital punishment is sometimes never carried out.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/06/us/us-executions-death-penalty-dg/index.html
Texas alone, for instance, accounts for 37% of all executions carried out since 1977
Of the more than 3,100 counties and their equivalents in the United States, just 506 — or 16% — have carried out any executions since 1977
So capital punishment is by far the exception rather than the rule in the US.
Btw I believe that the states which use capital punishment the most are also the states with the highest levels of homicides. So much for the claim that capital punishment works.
Ernie - when everyone has to proclaim a belief in God to get anywhere politically, when extreme theists are in power, when schools teach creation not science, when people die from simple illnesses because they are poor, when maternal and neonatal death rates are so high, when they kill each other on such a scale, when workers have no rights , when its a society that is so racist,I think backward is a fair representation
None of these things are worthy of an "advanced" nation
Morally its no different to somewhere like Saudi Arabia or Iran
I've not posted on this and I guess I risk a ban for it, but I got a warning last night, almost 24hrs ago (and I requested an explanation as I can't see how what I posted broke forum rules, but as I haven't had one in a day I think I'm fair game)
I posted on the dangers of inert gas asphyxiation, talking from my work experience, and presenting factual information answering the OP.
I really can't see why that was deleted when offensive crap like some others have posted recently isn't.
[and fwiw I don't particularly think it should be, leave it up to be challenged and debunked]
when everyone has to proclaim a belief in God to get anywhere politically, when extreme theists are in power, when schools teach creation not science, when people die from simple illnesses because they are poor, when maternal and neonatal death rates are so high, when they kill each other on such a scale, when workers have no rights , when its a society that is so racist,
So not a fan then?
Btw all the trendy issues and terminology so loved by UK Guardian-reading tofu eaters invariably originate from the United States, eg, gender fluid, people of colour, BLM, woke, etc etc.
Where would UK liberals be without US liberals showing them to way and telling them what to say?
Liberalism comes from the UK / europe.
The Brits invented it!
The Brits invented it!
Along with hanging, drawing and quartering....
The Brits invented it!
The french might have something to say about that
