Execution using an untested method, nitrogen suffocation which resulted in it taking the condemned man 25 minutes to die according to an eyewitness.
This horrific act would be shocking had it occurred in North Korea or Iran. That it happened in a supposed Western democracy is unbelievable.
Used apparently because the rest of the world refuses to provide the lethal injection drugs previously used. You'd think that might send some kind of message about how everyone outside of the US justice system views this barbarity in the 21st century. Absolute ****ing animals.
Not even slightly surprised. It is the US after all.
They've been experimenting with random drug cocktails for years. Nothing new unfortunately.
Performative cruelty is very much in vogue in parts of the US. Tends to be a correlation with church attendance levels.
Wouldn't it just be easier and cheaper to shoot them?
It's quick and efficient, plus they're not lacking in firearms.
It's interesting, the real torture is the 30 years of awaiting his execution.
Maybe he miffed them off by them not being able to find a vein previously so they spitefully thought up a nice unpleasant end for him.
Surely being surgically anaesthetised / sedated prior to testing out the nitrogen would have been more humane.
If they'd of used helium his last words would have been squeaky...
it seems that the method of the execution is as much a part of the punishment as the actual execution.
It’s interesting, the real torture is the 30 years of awaiting his execution.
and this.
It's how they kill animals - mix of nitrogen and carbon dioxide. Supposedly pretty quick but with an animal you can just pop it into an airtight chamber and whack the gas on.
With humans, that has rather unfortunate similarities to the Holocaust which is one of the main complaints about use of gas as means of carrying out the death penalty - plus humans are more aware and can resist by trying to hold their breath.
Wouldn’t it just be easier and cheaper to shoot them?
I think they do in some states. That's another bizarre thing. That individual states can decide their own favourite way of killing people. Even if it's some fag packet, untried, 'what about this' method it seems.
I'm very much against the death penatly, moral issues aside, we do know there are miscarrages of justice and wrongfull convictions, they are a thing.
But assuming there is a death penalty, I always wondered why they they can't just put them to sleep in the same way you might put a cat or dog to sleep... cheap, fast, clean, painless, they just go unconcious and don't wake up again.
I did read that a lot of drug production companies simply won't supply drugs for the execution of people, big pharma with a social concience? seems a bit ironic when the streets of america are awash with with super powerfull synthetic opioids.
It’s how they kill animals – mix of nitrogen and carbon dioxide. Supposedly pretty quick but with an animal you can just pop it into an airtight chamber and whack the gas on.
You sure about that?
The actual process of putting an animal to sleep is painless and involves the injection of an anaesthetic overdose. This is usually given into a vein, just as a normal anaesthetic would be. Animals quickly fall asleep and usually pass away while the injection is still being given. We would usually place an intravenous cannula to make this process as simple and stress-free as possible.
Sometimes an injection into a vein is not possible, either because the animal objects to being held or because the veins cannot be accessed (e.g. due to circulation problems or age). In such cases, we will give a sedative injection into the skin or muscle which allows an animal to relax and become sleepy first before we inject the anaesthetic overdose into the blood stream. We always try to minimise any stress for the animal so that he or she will pass away peacefully and painlessly.
Some animals will not move at all after they have been put to sleep, but it is perfectly normal to see some muscle movement or even something that looks like breathing or gasping for a few minutes after the heart and brain have stopped working. This is not a sign of life, but just automatic muscle movements that can go on for a few minutes after death – it is not a reason for worry or concern. We always make sure that an animal has definitely passed away by feeling the pulse, listening to the heart and checking reflexes.
I did read that a lot of drug production companies simply won’t supply drugs for the execution of people, big pharma with a social concience?
This, plus also expert medics to find suitable veins, etc.
I’m surprised they haven’t reverted back to crucifixion in public, sell the tickets and take the entire billy bob family unit to watch
Totally against the death penalty
but I'd bring back flogging for obvious trolling.
We can only hope he suffered as much as his victim.<br /><br />
Woohoo……daveylad is back from boffing his sister, we can now expect informed and erudite arguments regarding the pros of the death penalty
You sure about that?
Should have clarified. It's how they kill LAB animals (and poultry as well). Can do large scale euthanasia in minutes without injecting each individual animal. There have been studies on rats and mice as to how they react to different gases.
Yes, pets are done differently as you say.
And larger (food) animals like cows are done with a bolt gun.
It’s how they kill animals – mix of nitrogen and carbon dioxide. Supposedly pretty quick but with an animal you can just pop it into an airtight chamber and whack the gas on.
Not in the UK. I think most pigs are lowered in cages into increasing concentrations of CO2. Seems inhumane and very distressing to watch - I've seen it once and haven't eaten pork since.
What did we do to deserve the worst troll on the internet? He’s not even funny.
H's pet rats were euthanised by gas (by the vet I should clarify).
I did wonder why they didn't just put a bunch of smouldering disposable BBQs in the room - or is CO too painless ?
Discussion on the shortage of execution drugs
Its perfectly possible to produce a pain free quick death with the right drugs - after all thats what happens when active euthanasia is performed.
The death penalty only exists for revenge, not for punishment or justice.
As a global society in 2024, there should be no place for it. History has repeatedly shown the plethora of issues inherent in its existence.
I did wonder why they didn’t just put a bunch of smouldering disposable BBQs in the room – or is CO too painless ?
My understanding is CO would be quite a slow death.
CO2 triggers your body to breath more, and would result in you continually gasping for air as CO2 builds up in your body.
Nitrogen on the other hand displaces the oxygen, and essentially fools your body into thinking everything is OK, until such a point it runs out of oxygen and gives up.
As with davros their is plenty of fentanyl in the USA.
It's barbaric the USA prison system. as a aside I've seen some horrible images of animal torture using gas and the death wheel pigs are hard as nails when fighting for life.
But I am biased as I've not eaten meat for 40 years
Animals...
Can they not just stone wimmin and fling men off high buildings like a civilised society?
Nitrogen on the other hand displaces the oxygen, and essentially fools your body into thinking everything is OK, until such a point it runs out of oxygen and gives up.
I am not sure its that simple. there are two drives for breathing low O2 and high CO2. would this not trigger the low O2 drive and thus give rise to panting attempts to breathe?
but I’d bring back flogging for obvious trolling.
I share the sentiments behind that comment but I am not convinced daveylad isn't expressing genuinely held medieval views.
I was reading the comments associated to this story in the Daily Mail yesterday, at least half were from the USA and the rest from the UK, they were almost all in line with daveylad's comment.
That after all is why many States in the US still execute people - it is popular with many voters. Although happily not with most of the civilised world.
I am not sure its that simple. there are two drives for breathing low O2 and high CO2. would this not trigger the low O2 drive and thus give rise to panting attempts to breathe?
It's certainly not my area of expertise, but my understanding is that's the build up of CO2 that causes you to breath harder, not a lack of O2. However I'm sure somebody will clarify.
Execution just brutalises society.
daveylad isn’t expressing genuinely held medieval views.
he does have a remarkable talent for always taking an objectionable view, whilst still having that ‘could be genuine’ vibe though.
Imagine having all those views, all the time…
Likewise can’t say I’m shocked by a backwater state testing on humans.
I was reading the comments associated to this story in the Daily Mail yesterday, at least half were from the USA and the rest from the UK, they were almost all in line with daveylad’s comment.
I'm not enirely sure the comments section of daily mail articles is the best place to find a balanced and representative view of society as a whole. 😉
MC there are two drives - of that I am sure. carbonic ( high CO2) and Hypoxic ( low O2) and they interplay . I only know of the interaction between the two in end of life care tho - gives rise to Chayne Stokes breathing as they get out of sync at the end of life<br /><br />I do not know how they play out in this sort of scenario.
edit - I did a quick search and found stuff thats far to technical for me to understand and there seems to be some dispute about what happens in hypoxia
the build up of CO2 that causes you to breath harder
That's my understanding too - hence the dangers of liquid nitrogen or helium, there's nothing to make you realise you are asphyxiating, other than the hypoxia making you disorientated and incapable, so while you might be fleetingly aware it's a nice light-headed feeling and you don't particularly want to get away even if you could. Then you're unconscious, and then eventually brain damaged after hypoxia properly a few minutes later.
The alarms are set at a level of 02 that are below normal, but still above survivable, if they were at the lower limit then you'd hear the alarm but NGAF and might try dancing to it or something daft.
A litre of liq N2 creates almost 0.7 m^3 of gas, liq He even more. Liq He being lighter than air and also flashing to gas faster is particularly hazardous as it rises compared to air and fills the room from the top but (so I was told) as you fall unconscious and fall over you then go back to a more oxygen rich atmosphere and crawl out..... maybe.
Woohoo……daveylad is back from boffing his sister, we can now expect informed and erudite arguments regarding the pros of the death penalty
An interesting post to try and claim some high ground.
His sentiment is not that uncommon, and I understand the desire for "vengeance", even if I disagree with it as a basis for executing someone.
I’m not enirely sure the comments section of daily mail articles is the best place to find a balanced and representative view of society as a whole
I wasn't looking for balanced views! Obviously.
I do sometimes find it fascinating to read the opinions of people whom I sometimes feel are a different species to me.
I am currently reading a lot of articles from Israeli news websites. I am frankly gobsmacked by some of the comments on those.
Should have clarified. It’s how they kill LAB animals (and poultry as well). Can do large scale euthanasia in minutes without injecting each individual animal. There have been studies on rats and mice as to how they react to different gases.
Even the Animal labs are moving away from CO2 euthanasia for ethical reasons (in the UK).It was the typical method small rodent euthanasia in large numbers.
I am not sure its that simple. there are two drives for breathing low O2 and high CO2. would this not trigger the low O2 drive and thus give rise to panting attempts to breathe?
It’s certainly not my area of expertise, but my understanding is that’s the build up of CO2 that causes you to breath harder, not a lack of O2. However I’m sure somebody will clarify.
Typically, the CO2 was/is fed in at a low and slowly increasing rate, as a sudden increase in concentration is irritating (like inhaling fizzy drink gas). if the flow rate is low, CO2 intoxication (without irritation) leads to unconsciousness *before* their bodys automatic 'last gasp' low O2 reflex kicks in (as TJ rightly described). So death (in small rodents) is a 20-30 min process, with them being unconscious after 5 mins, and being largely unaware of what was happening.
With all that said, it's now seen as sub optimal method of Euthanasia, with more risks associated to the animal.
Agreed that 30 years on death row (effectively solitary confinement isn’t it?) sounds worse than 30 minutes of slow suffocation.
The US does seem to differ from the rest of the first world on their treatment of criminals, and it doesn’t seem to be working out so well for them.
generally I’m against the death penalty for murderers, but the article indicates he was acting as a hit man for want of a better phrase, so that changes my view a bit on the whole crime of passion and rehabilitation arguments.
thieves, and bike thieves in particular, I’d happily see executed however.
“That it happened in a supposed Western democracy is unbelievable.”
this is where you went wrong.
The USA is not a Western democracy.
it’s a third world country with electricity.
Inherently racist and thick as mince barely scratches the surface
I guess I feel particularly sensitive to this because I have seen many folk in respiratory distress at end of life and its awful. This includes Mrs TJ
there are two issues here - is the death penalty morally right and is this "cruel and unusual punishment"
I am very much against the death penalty but have an interest in self euthanasia.
I'm not an expert but I think the main respiratory driver is high CO2, CO just displaces oxygen without causing respiratory distress hence all the warnings about disposable barbeques in tents on campsites, it is also a popular method of suicide in Japan I understand. And you get a sausage before you go.
I recently read about a suicide pod being developed in Switzerland that uses nitrogen, they said death should follow unconsciousness and take 10-30 mins again by displacing oxygen and without distress. I wonder which is accurate.
is the death penalty morally right and is this “cruel and unusual punishment”
Kinda, but nah. Yeah.
