I was watching two Chinooks practicing on Holcombe firing range later on Monday evening. Never seen or heard them up there before.
Chinooks practicing on Holcombe firing range
I see Chinooks fly over Rammy occasionally. I thought I could hear them on Monday but didn't go looking and didn't see them on the plane tracking websites. I've not been lucky enough to see them from the horseshoe either.
What happened to the idea of Poland giving Ukraine their MIGs (29s?)?
That would make a lot more sense, give the Ukrainians something they already know how to use and maintain and then we/US can give Poland/whoever Typhoons and F16s and train them up over time.
If we are going to give fast jets to Ukraine it makes much more sense to give them Poland and let the Poles give the Ukrainians something of more immediate value
We have the chinooks up the valley regularly. This shot was from my patio!
[img] https://up.picr.de/43085899xx.jpg [/img]
@welshfarmer "Get orf moi laaaaand, Sorry, Aaaaairspaaaace"?
reluctantjumper
Full Member
Whilst I fully support the Ukraine and want them to succeed in beating Putin I can’t help but worry that us supplying hardware in the way we are seemingly about to makes us a target for Putin. How far can we go before we become a legitimate target?
I can honestly say I don't lose a seconds sleep over Putin using nukes. I've lost count of how many times he's made cryptic threats about using them. He's a bit of a bore now.
His retaliation is not likely to be a big and concerted attack on an institution such as the NHS. That does concern me but in reality he's almost certainly been ordering such attacks to be attempted right from the start of the war. (I bet GCHQ have been firefighting from the start, begins the scenes.) I mean to say that he would be using such tactics whether we send arms/planes to Ukraine or not, so best to get on and help Ukraine end this war.👍
What happened to the idea of Poland giving Ukraine their MIGs (29s?)?
There was a suggestion a few weeks ago that the MIG29 spares provided by Poland last Spring may have infact been in the form of complete aircraft....
Bollox....was enjoying the Animals 2018 remix just last night as well. Just stick to strumming your guitar Roger
richmars Full Member
Surely A10’s would be good against Russian ground targets, not super expensive modern stuff?
Despite its fearsome reputation online the A-10 is quite a vulnerable aircraft when in conflicts with near-peer opponents. It really needs uncontested airspace to operate effectively, and is probably fairly at risk to relatively sophisticated ground based air defences too.
Edit: I appear to have been "blessed" with a rich text editor, which wants to insert all sorts of tags into my post. Hopefully this'll get rid of them.
Whilst I fully support the Ukraine
Just as a minor semantic point, it's 'Ukraine', 'The Ukraine' is what Russians who regard it as a region within their territory call it.
Potatoes potatoes
Throwing Nato airframes at Ukraine is pointless.
Yes, they are very, very good at what they do but the back up required is enormous.
Ground crew, consumables, ammo, diagnostics, maintenence, pens, fuel rigs
Plus awacs, facs, alarm weaponary, iff plus loads more. Its another layered system with pilot and plane protection being up there as attrition rates can very quickly nullify your airforce.
The Saab Draken or Viggen was being touted as the best suited but in reality i think its years from them being painted blue and yellow.
More migs is the quickest easiest solution.
A particularly gloomy forecast for the war in Ukraine, from Peter Zeihan who is never particularly upbeat! Make of it what you will, I like some of his stuff, but I think (and hope) he's wrong about this. A more likely scenario IMO is a Ukrainian military victory, turmoil and unrest in Russia resulting in Putin being deposed and an uneasy peace for a good few years while the bear licks its wounds and reconstitures for another go. Not ideal, but it will at least allow Ukraine, Poland, Romania the Baltics and NATO to dig in and shore up their defences.
Apparently that Elon Musk has switched off access to starlink for drones used by the UA, just on the eve of a giant invasion by Russia.
Classy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64579267
What happens though if/when Ukraine pushed the Russians back across their border ?.
Do they leave it at that, reinforce the border, or push forward and into Russia itself.
Anyone seen reports that Russia has started a full on second offensive?
Yep, it's the top story on the guardian at the mo
What happens though if/when Ukraine pushed the Russians back across their border ?.
Do they leave it at that, reinforce the border, or push forward and into Russia itself.
I would think they stop there as they’ve always said they’re defending their territory, not invading.
Next step would be ultrafast track to NATO to protect their border.
Elon musk really is a Grade a unt if he has switched off starlink
Roger Waters: just another prick in the war.
Elon is a merchant banker.
Considering eh? Guess they don't want to rush it and get the wrong answer.
https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1623992136877109250
The Saab Draken or Viggen was being touted as the best suited but in reality i think its years from them being painted blue and yellow.
isn't that their default colour scheme?
Neither the Draken nor the Viggen have been in service for over 15 years now, perhaps it's the Gripen that's been suggested? It's unlikely that there's more than a tiny number of Draken and Viggens still flying, if any.
Sounds like Russia are throwing more men into the meat grinder
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1624015469295419392?t=Qxh2wgF8SfCsynLYStpbXQ&s=19
Yep, RF disaster trying to take Vuhledar. 30 AFVs destroyed, and some UF sources on Twitter saying 200 killed. Reuters link on the loss of armour.
This is also at Vuhledar, not sure if these are the same vehicles. Doing a bit of dynamic mine clearance.
https://twitter.com/putinslies/status/1624117724241866752?s=20&t=XPCz5PksyYiWDEW4ZeO0jg
Yes -if this is the new Russian offensive, it’s a complete shit show.
perhaps it’s the Gripen that’s been suggested?
Yes. There was a good Twitter thread on this last year, running through the realistic options. Needs a modern radar and long-range AA missiles. Being able to use short airstrips or roads would be a bonus. Gripen was rated the best available option.
"Dynamic mine clearance "
Jeebus
IN 1944 we had flail tanks to clear mines on the beaches .
Have the Russians not studied that bit in Tank school ? Its all abit WW1 / WW2 with the generals thinking numbers will prevail .
When modern defenders can repulse a combined assult with significantly fewer men . Unless you can very accuratly barrage your way forward with artillery , then Armour backed with trained commmited ground troops driving across a minefeild is probably only going to go badly for you.
" over the top lads , this is it , the big push " All abit Blackadder and Cpt Darling , wonder if they used a bugle as well, or was that the NVA?
">When modern defenders can repulse a combined assult with significantly fewer men </span>
One thing I didn't realise is that Ukriane has had a numerical throughout the conflict so far. At least accirding to the one source that I've seen
The Russians do have mine clearance vehicles, similar to the British Army Python (or Giant Viper when I served). A vehicle mounted rocket which tows a flexible pipe a few hundred metres long full of explosive. This detonates causing any mines beneath it to function. There are videos of Russia using them earlier in the conflict. Not as per their intended use, but to destroy buildings or attack Ukrainian personnel. Now when they would be really useful, they don't seem to have them. Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
^^^ There seems to be a consensus elsewhere on Twitter that the above video clip is at a range or training area somewhere. There is what looks to be an observation platform or range control tower at the top of the slope at the start. May or may not be, but I think it's wise to cast a sceptical eye over some Twitter stuff. I'm 100% behind Ukraine, but they are past masters at info ops!
I did mean to post ot was unusual for them considering.
But the dog decided to interact do it didnt happen.
Russia is fighting for "survival" do you think they will give up?
If Russia loses this war there will be "no more" Russia and perhaps their alliance, they all know that.
Russia is fighting for Putin’s survival. There is zero chance of Russia disappearing if/when this war comes to end, however it ends.
Russia is fighting for “survival”
How? Russia is the largest country in the world, but that's not enough for it. It is fighting to steal the territory and assets of a sovereign country because it's a corrupt kleptocropsy and an imperial throwback. A sovereign country they thought would be a pushover - wrong. They thought the world would turn a blind eye - wrong. If this is the undoing of the Russian Federation and I hope it is, then they have no one to blame but themselves.
<span style="font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; font-size: 16px; background-color: #eeeeee;">How? Russia is the largest country in the world, but that’s not enough for it. It is fighting to steal the territory and assets of a sovereign country because it’s a corrupt kleptocropsy and an imperial throwback. A sovereign country they thought would be a pushover – wrong. They thought the world would turn a blind eye – wrong. If this is the undoing of the Russian Federation and I hope it is, then they have no one to blame but themselves.</span>
Nicely put
"How? Russia is the largest country in the world, but that’s not enough for it. It is fighting to steal the territory and assets of a sovereign country because it’s a corrupt kleptocropsy and an imperial throwback. A sovereign country they thought would be a pushover – wrong. They thought the world would turn a blind eye – wrong. If this is the undoing of the Russian Federation and I hope it is, then they have no one to blame but themselves."
Nicely put
Its utterly delusional to think Russia will cease to exist if they lose in Ukraine.
Far FAR more likely is Putin loses and they replace him with some other arsehole. Ask the Tsar...
Its utterly delusional to think Russia will cease to exist if they lose in Ukraine.
I agree, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the Russian Federation might lose a few less than fully committed members.
Far FAR more likely is Putin loses and they replace him with some other arsehole. Ask the Tsar…
You want that to continue? i.e. for him to be replaced by someone with the same caliber or worse? What will the end look like?
What will the end look like?
I’m afraid that’s for the people of Russia to sort out. I don’t envy them, and have no idea how they can improve things. It’s not by invading other countries though.
