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When will you get it Ernie... people voting for Reform... people who voted for Brexit (the fervent ones, not those swayed at the last minute by lies)... sure they want "Change", but they are not asking for the same change as you, quite the opposite.
The "they just want change" narrative is no excuse for the type of change many of them want.
The "they just want change" narrative is no excuse for the type of change many of them want.
"Many"? Everything I read (John Harris in particular is good on it) shows that what "they" want is highly variable. Sure there is the hardcore of racists but many, for good reason, do feel ignored and hence are voting for a change.
Admittedly its hard to see why voting for the professional politican Farage and his band of tory rebrandees counts as a change but they are exploiting the gap in the market.
The problem is Starmer and co are also joining in the simplistic branding and hence policies to "appeal" on rather than actually addressing the issue. Overly simplistic populist policies in a nutshell.
When will you get it Ernie... people voting for Reform... people who voted for Brexit (the fervent ones, not those swayed at the last minute by lies)... sure they want "Change", but they are not asking for the same change as you, quite the opposite.
And when will you get it that the only significant change which had occurred in the last 9 months is that we now have a "Labour" government?
If there was a general election tomorrow all the indications are that Reform would receive approximately as many, if not more, votes than Labour. The reason for that isn't because of a referendum 10 years ago but because of a general election 9 months ago.
Otherwise the level of support for Reform would have been the same last July as it is now.
Blame Brexit as much as you want for Labour's woes and lack of popularity but the problem is the Starmer and Reeves not Brexit.
Although I do appreciate that for some people Starmer is above any sort of criticism, for them must responsibility must lie elsewhere. Generally we seem to have moved away from blaming Brexit although apparently Jeremy Corbyn is still somehow responsible. And astonishingly according to binners also the Tories, it turns out that their shite opposition to the current Labour government might be the reason for Starmer's poor decisions.
Blame Brexit as much as you want for Labour's woes
I wasn’t.
I was expressing my fear that the way the Labour government will change in the face of Reform winning another seat and storming ahead in the polls will be to give Reform voters more of what they want. Which isn’t at all the kind of change you say you want. Or the changes I want. Listening to Reform voters too much is a big part of the current problem for the UK. More support for Reform will result in politicians doing more of that. So Reeves might go, but so would any chance of more taxes on the rich and more spending on the services those in need require.
Keir Starmer has been warned against “appeasing” Donald Trump as he considers reducing a major tax for US tech companies while cutting disability benefits and public sector jobs.
His chancellor, Rachel Reeves, confirmed on Sunday that there were “ongoing” discussions about the UK’s £1bn-a-year digital services tax that affects companies including Meta and Amazon.
todays Grauniad
In case anyone was still in doubt- it’s not “left vs right”, it’s the super-rich vs the rest of us
They really are a complete shower of utter ****s, especially that ****ing reboot reeve with her preprogrammed responses to every question asked of her.
I was expressing my fear that the way the Labour government will change in the face of Reform winning another seat and storming ahead in the polls will be to give Reform voters more of what they want.
Yes there's a risk labour will swing further to the right on issues like immigration and DEI issues, but it'll be a price worth paying to get rid of Reeves. Nothing will improve while Labour have a tory ex-banker as Chancellor.
Yes there's a risk labour will swing further to the right on issues like immigration and DEI issues,
Because that worked so well for Rishi Sunak when he was prime minister and he also faced with a growing threat from Reform?
Because that tactic has worked so well for established political parties right across Europe who have been faced with a far-right threat?
The worse possible response to a far-right threat is to embrace their agenda. The only reason that right-wing and centrist parties do precisely that is because the alternative is totally unpalatable to them..... they themselves subscribe to neoliberal economics with a unhealthy dollop of racism
Yes there's a risk labour will swing further to the right on issues like immigration and DEI issues,
Because that worked so well for Rishi Sunak when he was prime minister and he also faced with a growing threat from Reform?
Because that tactic has worked so well for established political parties right across Europe who have been faced with a far-right threat?
The worse possible response to a far-right threat is to embrace their agenda. The only reason that right-wing and centrist parties do precisely that is because the alternative is totally unpalatable to them..... they themselves subscribe to neoliberal economics with a unhealthy dollop of racism
So you think 'centrists' are racist?...wow.. that's a sweeping assumption, even from you!
Well certainly some centrists on STW defended the cuts to the foreign aid budget by employing the racist tropes more expected from Farage. So it isn't that that hard a statement to make, but I wouldn't really call them centrists any more even though that's what they might like to believe they are.
So you think 'centrists' are racist?...wow.. that's a sweeping assumption, even from you!
It is neither an assumption nor sweeping, it is a very specific fact. One which has been extensively researched by Martin Forde KC
Martin Forde KC, who was commissioned by Keir Starmer to investigate allegations of bullying, racism and sexism, expressed concern about the party enabling a “hierarchy” of racism.
And since you are back on this thread after your week-long absence mattyfez any opinions concerning the centrists announcement that they will financially cripple over a million disabled people?
Last Monday you expressed your outrage at what iirc you described as "tedious" speculation, now that it is no longer speculation any thoughts you want to share? You are usually keen to share.
Listening to Reform voters too much is a big part of the current problem for the UK.
No it isnt or rather its listening to them only superficially.
There is some interesting research about how the "nativists" have pivoted away from the traditional "they take your jobs " argument to making claims about housing prices/welfare costs instead.
Those are obvious problems which the right wing rags and populist right have been able to utilise to blame, in particular, immigration for.
Starmer should be addressing those welfare and housing costs and explaining where the actual failures came from and how he is going to fix them. Not to play along with the hard right agenda since they will always be able to outright him (ok possibly not in his case).
Because that worked so well for Rishi Sunak when he was prime minister and he also faced with a growing threat from Reform?
I never said it would work, just that's what they will probably do. Labour going to the right on social issues is inevitable in any case, they're following what is happening in every other western democracy. What they need to do first is move to the left on economic issues and start spending some money and making the lives of working people easier. And to do that they need to get rid of their austerity obsessed tory chancellor.
So you think 'centrists' are racist?...wow.. that's a sweeping assumption, even from you!
It is neither an assumption nor sweeping, it is a very specific fact. One which has been extensively researched by Martin Forde KC
And since you are back on this thread after your week-long absence mattyfez any opinions concerning the centrists announcement that they will financially cripple over a million disabled people?
Last Monday you expressed your outrage at what iirc you described as "tedious" speculation, now that it is no longer speculation any thoughts you want to share? You are usually keen to share.
I strongly dissaprove of the benefits cuts. Does that mean I'm not a racist centrist (as you put it) any more?
Thats the most annoying thing - when people add the number 2 & an Orange fruit together, and come to the conclusion that the answer must be a Ford Focus. 🙃
'a tory ex-banker as Chancellor' or more accurately 'a tory ex-clerical assistant in the complaints department as Chancellor'
Erni.
Brexit is tbe major issue.
It has caused huge economic losses
It has crippled NHS recruitment
It has legitimized racism.
Brexit is an ongoing process that is far from complete hence the adverse effects are still increasing
Last Monday you expressed your outrage at what iirc you described as "tedious" speculation,
I believe he described the accurate commentary here as "drivel".
Does that mean I'm not a racist centrist (as you put it) any more?
I am not sure if what you are is relevant to this thread.mattyfez, which as the title suggests is about the UK government.
A government which is widely described as centrist and which also has a proven racist problem.
I have no idea why you appear to assume that any criticism I make of Starmer and his government is an attack on you btw.
You have repeatedly claimed to be a LibDem supporter which makes it particularly weird imo.
Does that mean I'm not a racist centrist (as you put it) any more?
I am not sure if what you are is relevant to this thread.mattyfez, which as the title suggests is about the UK government.
A government which is widely described as centrist and which also has a proven racist problem.
I have no idea why you appear to assume that any criticism I make of Starmer and his government is an attack on you btw.
You have repeatedly claimed to be a LibDem supporter which makes it particularly weird imo.
It should be pretty obvious, I voted labour to hedge my bets as the lib-dems are pretty much non-existent in my area.
the centrists announcement that they will financially cripple over a million disabled people?
These are your words. I am a centrist, so I do take that as an attack, yes.
since you are back on this thread after your week-long absence
I didn't realise I have to keep crap-posting on this thread on a daily basis in order to qualify to voice my opinion?
Some on here, you included, are worse than MAGA sometimes, with your blind, extreme tribalism… you'll be accusing me of eating babies next.
the centrists announcement that they will financially cripple over a million disabled people?
These are your words. I am a centrist, so I do take that as an attack, yes.
Yes those are my words and I am very clearly referring to the Starmer's government, what are you, the UK government's spokesman on this thread?
Some on here, you included, are worse than MAGA sometimes, with your blind, extreme tribalism… you'll be accusing me of eating babies next.
Jeezus this thread isn't about you. And yes some people will express dissatisfaction with regards to the current government, not everyone will be of the opinion that it's doing a great job, get a grip ffs
The idea that painful cuts are inevitable is political theatre. Either Rachel Reeves knows the constraints are self-imposed – or, more troublingly, believes they are real.
The chancellor won’t raise taxes on the wealthy, relax her fiscal rules or borrow more. So she claims that there is no alternative to cuts. But these are self-imposed constraints – combined with deference to an unelected monetary authority – that sustain the illusion of necessity.
Austerity isn’t the price of prudence but the cost of forgetting. The chancellor wears the mask of tough decisions, but on a stage built on myths.
Austerity isn’t the price of prudence but the cost of forgetting. The chancellor wears the mask of tough decisions, but on a stage built on myths.
She came up with something ridiculous from the start - based on a misunderstanding of governmental finances.
She is too stubborn and too stupid to go anywhere else with it.
I don't know what it will take for them to realise they have ****ed up big time, as one thing is for certain things are going to get worse from here on in.
If Centrism's aims are to make things materially worse and pave the way for more extreme government's it's looking like a total success.
Unbelievable anyone can still not see this. All because some utterly stupid person didn't sit down with the Chancellor and realise the way the Conservatives understand the economy is not a template for Labour success.
are worse than MAGA sometimes
You mean stuff like the slash and burn of the state to hand it over to the tech bros, the pretence of a plan, blaming the poorest and most needy for the failures and taking away what little they have, using racist tropes to attack immigrants and remove their rights, pandering to the oligarchs, I agree Starmer could shoot someone on oxford street in broad daylight on camera and the MAGA loons who claim to be centrists would still defend him. And of course another trick they have learnt from trump, is to accuse those who stand against that far right political direction of the tactics that they themselves are actually using.
Attacking someone for their viewpoint then shouting "this thread isn't just about you" when they try to defend their position is a bit naughty IMO.
However pissed off you are about where Starmer is taking us. And, as a previously optimistic centrist, I am pissed off about it.
😕
Attacking someone for their viewpoint then shouting "this thread isn't just about you" when they try to defend their position is a bit naughty IMO.
However pissed off you are about where Starmer is taking us. And, as a previously optimistic centrist, I am pissed off about it.
😕
Nicely put - all of it.
The good news/bad news is that Starmer and Reeves godawful performance is driving me further left, which kind of leaves me with no valid vote.
I absolutely agree that Reeves self-imposed fiscal rules are an utter disaster. She and/or they need to go. Urgently. The unprecedented threat to European security resulting from Trumps election is the ideal justification for tearing up the rules and taxing/borrowing to invest and safeguard our future, militarily and economically.
"We can't change despite an unprecedented historical global realignment because The Rules" is absolutely ****ing insane.
And yes, as a previous "give 'em a chance" centrist you can all laugh at me now.
And yes, as a previous "give 'em a chance" centrist you can all laugh at me now.
I would, but it is not really funny what is going on. I had low expectations of Starmer but I can't believe how much I misread him over the years if he has always believed in the shit he is doing/saying now. With so many Labour MPs I always hoped that the majority would be against what he stands for and do something about, he can hardly remove the whip from 200 MPs can he but I guess they have all change too?
With so many Labour MPs I always hoped that the majority would be against what he stands for and do something about, he can hardly remove the whip from 200 MPs can he but I guess they have all change too?
Attacking someone for their viewpoint then shouting "this thread isn't just about you" when they try to defend their position is a bit naughty IMO.
Maybe read this page again? That is certainly not what happened. Mattyfez didn't like my criticism of right-wing and centrist parties and decided that it was a personal attack on him (despite the fact that he hadn't posted anything for a week) He quoted my following comment :
Because that worked so well for Rishi Sunak when he was prime minister and he also faced with a growing threat from Reform
Because that tactic has worked so well for established political parties right across Europe who have been faced with a far-right threat?
The worse possible response to a far-right threat is to embrace their agenda. The only reason that right-wing and centrist parties do precisely that is because the alternative is totally unpalatable to them..... they themselves subscribe to neoliberal economics with a unhealthy dollop of racism
And then said : So you think 'centrists' are racist?...wow.. that's a sweeping assumption, even from you!
You think that's me attacking him do you?
And yes I think that many centrists in the current government are quite comfortable with racism, as Martin Forde KC shamefully discovered.
I am sure that relaxed attitude to racism helps to explain how they are happy to introduce Reform-friendly policies such as denying asylum seekers British citizenship and cutting foreign aid by 40%
I am just about 62 years old, with a bit of luck and medical intervention I might shuffle on another 20 years. I think I will witness the following -
A significantly right wing government and all the nasty stuff that will go with that.
A widening in the wealth gap to Victorian levels leading to an impoverished working/middle class.
State pension entitlement into your mid 70s
Some form of dramatic swing back to the left wing of politics as the boomers die off.
If Centrism's aims are to make things materially worse and pave the way for more extreme government's it's looking like a total success.
Unbelievable anyone can still not see this. All because some utterly stupid person didn't sit down with the Chancellor and realise the way the Conservatives understand the economy is not a template for Labour success.
I think the aims of individuals concerned might be misunderstood. People like Starmer and Reeves are not really politicians, ie people driven by strong political convictions. These are simply people who have chosen politics as a career option and will adjust their convictions to suit.
Five years ago, when the conditions required it, Starmer was a radical lefty who was publicly making the "moral case for socialism" as he called it. The "aim" was to eventually become prime minister. I have that no doubt Reeves relished the thought of becoming the first female Chancellor of the Exchequer in UK history.
These are individuals who are on a quest to achieve personal fulfillment. Having reached high levels of power their natural instincts are to maintain the status quo and not cause too much upheavals to a system which they fundamentally fully support.
Sir Keir Starmer will go down in history as a former Director of Public Prosecutions and Prime Minister and Rachel Reeves as Britain's first ever female Chancellor of the Exchequer, what's not to like?
All political careers end in failure anyway so no one will worry about that.
Comment of the week.
Comment of the week.
Comment of the weak, certainly.
In case anyone was still in doubt- it’s not “left vs right”, it’s the super-rich vs the rest of us
It's not even subtle anymore it's a smash and grab.
If Centrism's aims are to make things materially worse and pave the way for more extreme government's it's looking like a total success
I'd say it's the patronising authoritarians. They don't practice what they preach, talk down to people, don't have any solutions just penalties and restrictions to be imposed on other people, not themselves of course.
ransos
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Comment of the week.
Comment of the weak, certainly.
In that case, I assume your next move is to rally the rest of the pack in for the kill?
Thinks about posting a serious comment, thinks better of it, donkey gif it is.
In that case, I assume your next move is to rally the rest of the pack in for the kill?
I've no idea what you're talking about. My post was in response to a usually prolific poster who asked us to wait for details of benefits cuts to be confirmed, and for once had no comment once they had been. Obviously, normal service has now resumed and the small stock of pictures is being used in lieu of anything to say.
Wow, so now I'm right wing and racist...?
Lol, this thread is just a circle-jerk, I should know better than to post in it 🤣
Probably a climate change denier and Pootin/Orange Shit Gibbon (funny names eh aren't I clever) sympathiser as well 😉
Wow, so now I'm right wing and racist...?
Are you still assuming that any criticism of the government is a personal attack on you, or has someone specifically accused you of being right-wing and racist?
I've no idea what you're talking about. My post was in response to a usually prolific poster who asked us to wait for details of benefits cuts to be confirmed, and for once had no comment once they had been. Obviously, normal service has now resumed and the small stock of pictures is being used in lieu of anything to say.
I think you've got every idea what I'm talking about.
You chose to pun 'comment of the week' into 'comment of the weak'. Weak animals are the ones picked off first by an assembled pack of predators. It's pretty clear to me that there are some alphas in here who like to gang up on others.
At least acknowledge what you're doing rather than deflecting. Or will it be my turn next?
Fow what it is worth I would characterise myself as a fair bit to the left of mattyfez and something like a lapsed Binners. I held out a lot of hope for Starmer. I thought he was going to act like a QC and use some gravitas to challenge some of the Brexity, rightward drifting shite that has poisoned British political discourse for a decade now. But I'm increasingly convinced he hasn't got the minerals. I think he has political convictions, but I don't think he has the balls to advance them. I think he has accepted failure and given up on the electorate. Perhaps he is right to do so, but not having been elected prime minister.
Still, whatever - pile on if you like, I'm not sure I'm that bothered any more. I'm politically homeless, so I might as well concentrate on me and mine and stop sweating the big stuff. What's the point if every supposed political clean slate turns out to be a continuation with a different coloured rosette slapped on it?
.....
Blimey, some people really think that the "UK government thread" is all about them.
Anyway in other news......did anyone else know that the Labour candidate in the Runcorn by-election has launched an online petition calling for an asylum hotel in the constituency to be closed?
I have only just seen this :
https://www.runcornandwidnesworld.co.uk/news/25026406.labour-candidate-calls-asylum-hotel-closed/
"A Labour by-election campaign targeting asylum hotels is callous and indefensible. Last summer, a hotel named by a Labour MP in Parliament was set on fire with people inside. This rhetoric fuels hate and puts lives at risk. After last year's far-right riots, it is beyond contempt."
The particularly interesting aspect of this story is that firstly you have to assume that the Labour by-election candidate has the personal approval of Sir Keir Starmer, and secondly that it is the Home Office that decides which hotels are used as temporary accommodation for asylum applicants.
So the Labour candidate in Runcorn is attempting to force the closure of a hotel which the Labour Home Secretary, Yvette Cooper, has approved as necessary to house people waiting for the asylum applications to be processed.
And the hotel isn't even named!
Still I guess none of that is important, the point is that it serves as a useful dog-whistle to racists and bigots.
Although if I was a racist and bigot living in Runcorn I would simply use Labour's validation of my bigotry to feel more comfortable about voting for the proper racist by-election candidate.
Wow, so now I'm right wing and racist...?
Are you still assuming that any criticism of the government is a personal attack on you, or has someone specifically accused you of being right-wing and racist?
I'll try to simplify my angle on that for you:
You and some others, rather than saying something accurate (when talking about the current govenment) such as 'starmer' or 'starmers labour' are simply saying 'centrists'.
'Centrism' isn't a political party, movement, or partisan view, it simply means blanced and moderate - the clue is in the word.
I'm sure you are reasonably intelligent, so I'm going to assume you are doing this to paint a certain picture to fit a certain agenda, or are saying things like that out of pure ignorance?
Then lumping in 'centrists' with the right wing, well, that just further confirms my thoughts.
I'm sure it's not lost on you that such language is loaded - when you try to lable 'centrists' as right wing...well they are not right wing by defnition, and racist too?
So yes, when you use the words like 'racist' and and 'right wing' to describe 'centrism', when what you actually mean is the labour party in its current form - and me being pretty moderate and centrist, I do take that as an attack.