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ly I get the self interest, but there comes a point where even the guy saying ‘I’ll make you rich’ becomes so objectionable that surely the greater good kicks in
Trump is a symptom, not the problem. If you go back before him, as far as republicans were concerned the greater good was the broad republican values of smaller government, lower taxes, more choice, less socialism. The details were not as important. So as long as in theory that was happening, they could overlook a lot (think fake WMDs, trickle down economics etc etc.).
The change in republican voters means no one really knows what the greater good they stand for is anymore, including them.
And, what about all Trump’s facilitators? Will there be some kind of national shame introspection on what they let happen, or will it all be drawing battle lines for the next election?
Both? Lynsey Graham (he of the we shouldn't elect a supreme court judge in a presidents last year and you can quote me on that - what? Don't know what you are talking about) is getting killed in fundraising by his dem opponent. He is literally begging for money. Hopefully that translates to a big loss in the election. Guys like Ted Cruz will hang around like a bad smell and lead the revolution against socialism.
And, what about all Trump’s facilitators? Will there be some kind of national shame introspection on what they let happen, or will it all be drawing battle lines for the next election?
Not a chance IMHO. The Reps are doubling down on the ‘unfair election’ nonsense. Inwardly I think they will realise that Trump was a bad move, but only because he’s uneducated, crass and unhinged. He can’t play the GOP puppet role they needed because he’s slightly too far gone for them. Crucially NOT because they disagree with his main policies.
If they do lose this evening, they’ll absolutely be back with a more polished version of the same fake-news-spewing, internet-troll-luring thing in 4 years.
The GOP won't retreat from Trumpism if Trump loses, according to this
I think you have to remember in the US the economy doing well is so important because without jobs and pension plans doing well people are totally screwed. Being scared of destitution is pretty powerful, and Trump gave the economy a shot in the arm by allowing drilling in national parks and removing environmental regulations etc and claimed he would bring back manufacturing jobs.
Obviously some might suggest you could create a proper safety net and free healthcare so people aren't so terrified, but that would be unamerican!
Just read this via the Lincoln Project: https://thebulwark.com/to-my-fellow-george-w-bush-supporters/
This is the kind of moral introspection I’d like to see more of. Not that I’d argue that GWB was a saint, and what might the world have looked like if Gore had taken office, but at least GWB was on a different scale to Trump.
Do I believe American establishments like the CDC, JAMA, NEJM, Fauci (and others like WHO / SAGE etc)? Yes, of course. Their whole life’s work is to deal with this sort of thing. They’re experts in their field so of course I’d listen to what they have to say. Do I believe the charlatan in the White House? No, of course not. He’s a powerful man for sure, he has his hands on the levers of the USA. But at this stage does anyone believe he has insight into anything?
Couldn't have put it better myself. I would add some opinionated gumpf about Trump supporters being idiots who watch Fox, never read alternative views, believe in QAnon, never went to school yet alone college and own too many firearms than should be allowed for their incredibly low level of intelligence.
But I won't say that as I'll get flamed. I despair.
Long live China. I say that so that they don't hunt me down when they become the new superpower.
Trump has offered them so much opportunity and should he stay in power then I welcome the rise of the Cybermen Chinese.
The Lincoln Project are an interesting bunch. Republicans who hate Trump. I think they think that if they get rid of Trump they can have their party back. A lot of them are former advisors to the party and or presidents.
I don't think the party as they remember it is ever coming back. So they are going to be outsiders for a long time.
On the bright side, if Trump wins we won't be troubled by American elections any more.
YOUNG MAN, there’s no need to feel down!” Never underestimate this ****. Let’s hope Trump loses properly this month.
This.
Trump has offered them so much opportunity and should he stay in power then I welcome the rise of the
CybermenChinese.
😆 you mean drones? They don't have Cybermen there.
First test is to eat stewed chicken feet and boiled pig offals, both of which are delicacies, then report back if you can handle that.
I've voted. Hopefully Colorado is blue today.
The Lincoln Project are an interesting bunch
Whilst their current work is entertaining they really are part of the problem. They spent years practicing the partisan warfare and attack ads setting the scene for Trump only to complain once he took it one step further.
Without them I doubt he would have got in place.
The Lincoln Project guys didn't have a lot to do with the rise of populism, which is largely behind Trump
They do play fast and dirty though. A guy vaguely connected to them was asked about the Supreme Court. He said the Dems still don't get it. If it were the other way round, they would pack the court with as many of the youngest judges they could get away with. Biden said he'd study the issue.
Daffy
Full MemberNot true – They’ll inherit a vaccine and a solution in January-March. Just like Trump inherited Obama’s economic recovery, healthcare plan, trade deals, veteran support and tried to build upon it and say it was all his doing.
Eh, that's really not the case. Even if a vaccine does arrive, it's not something that the next president inherits from this one, because that implies that the current one has had a hand in making it happen. All the other things you listed were genuine products of the Obama presidency, but a covid vaccine assuming it arrives won't be a product of Trump, it'll be something that largely happened at the same time as him.
All the other things you listed were genuine products of the Obama presidency, but a covid vaccine assuming it arrives won’t be a product of Trump, it’ll be something that largely happened at the same time as him.
Too true. Despite, not because of!
In truth, if/when they do have a credible vaccine, it'll be because 'The Scientists' resisted his apparatchiks' attempts to get them to fast track something not yet fully developed, let alone fully tested.
Worth bearing in mind that the potential vaccines that are currently being talked about seem to be 70-80% effective (not to mention for approx 6 months). If vaccine take up is 50% (which seems to be a number touted in the US), then 70% of 50% means approx 1/3 population immune. Which isn't close to being enough.
All the more reason to vote the doubt sowing, wig wearing, honey monster out of office!
But add in the fact that if Joe wins our post Brexit US trade deal gets a lot harder to sort
I don't think that's necessarily the case. He will be keen for us to maintain a sensible trading link with the EU which might knock some sense into the pea brains we have running the show.
I’ve voted.
Beer time?
Surely you ant crack a beer until florida exit poll,
Please let it end tonight. Please please make him leave quietly.
Not a praying man but I'll join you in that.
Whose coverage is everybody watching?
CNN probably (faster info I suspect),but they can get on your nerves a bit, when that happens, back to ITV, then repeat as necessary.lol A bit of Beeb for its deadpan reporting.
Ballots close in Florida at 1am. BST I believe, so well know that result fairly soon after apparently. If Trump loses that, I'll probably head off to bed and hope I don't wake up to a repeat of Referendum/ Trump 2016.
Watching fear the walking dead
I'll see what it looks like tomorrow
Don't have much faith in 2020
kimbers
Full Member
Watching fear the walking dead
Ah yeah, I've got one episode of that to watch, I'll watch that a bit later tonight.👍
Watching fear the walking dead
Apparently that was directed by a time traveller from the future. It’s a “based on true events” story after Trump’s third term.
🤣🤣
CNN building up to this one 😀
Poor old Beebs coverage looks decidedly low budget. 😟
Because it is!
the way 2020 has gone i'm expecting the worst but then we still have December to get through which will be something like a meteorite so our suffering will be fairly short lived.
mrchrispy
Full Member
the way 2020 has gone i’m expecting the worst but then we still have December to get through which will be something like a meteorite so our suffering will be fairly short lived.
Hate to say this but I see 2021 as being far, far worse than this year. Not in the Covid sense (I really hope) but economically. I see the next few months as a surreal time before the massive, monumental pain hits.
eddiebaby
Full MemberIndeed. But add in the fact that if Joe wins our post Brexit US trade deal gets a lot harder to sort and it gets even more scary.
Mmm. Sort of. Yes, negotiations will be harder, but that's because they could be fruitful and mutually beneficial and that takes more effort. A trump trade deal will be easy, inasmuch as we'll just have to accept whatever he demands, even though it'll be way worse for us and probably worse for the USA too.
Something that's always been a bit overlooked that- good, lasting, wide ranging mutually beneficial, fair trade deals are bloody hard, even with the best of intentions. Only limited, onesided, or generally shitty trade deals are ever easy.
Biden.... Please
🙏
Not in the Covid sense (I really hope) but economically.
In both senses. Covid isn’t going anywhere, and as you say the economic pain is only really getting started. 2020 is a shitshow, but it’s only the start. The recovery from what has started this year (and the previous four) is going to take decades.
trump isn't the most dangerous person in the US; that's McConnell.
I hope - against hope - he's turfed out in Kentucky but it's massively unlikely.
Assuming he wins and Biden is pres elect, mcconnell has 8 weeks to force through legislation - see coney barrett's hearings.
How has Kentucky announced the result so quickly?
trump isn’t the most dangerous person in the US; that’s McConnell.
There’s a good chance the dems will take both houses regardless of the presidential outcome
CNN showing county by county as they come in, in Florida.👍
Biden doing "ok" so far.
Early numbers, but he's leading Florida and Georgia
Florida took a month? In 2012
He's not leading by enough at the moment in e.g. Miami Dade. He needs to make up his numbers by running up big percentages areas he wins. It's early but those numbers are a positive for Trump.
Got to say, CNN is the one to watch if you want to see how Florida is going.
Sad to say this but my heart rate is up watching this.lol
Same here
Squeaky bum time
Do something good Florida. Come on.
CNN is the one to watch if you want to see how Florida is going
New York Times is good. May need a sub for it though.