[Closed] Tube strike London tonight,unions showing their power is still there.

Junkyard in another forum fail, shocka, there.

Seems most of the rest of the subsequent entries kind of agree with my first point...

I daresay his members think he's worth every penny, even the >70% who evidently couldn't care less about the strike itself.

automated stuff is quite often shite (see self checkouts at supermarkets) the ticket office at our rail station has 6 tills, 3 is the most staff they ever have to man them and monday mornings and various times on other days of the week it's mental busy. They installed 2 automated ticket machines which are rubbish, most of the time they won't take cash or cards or either. Too unreliable.

Isn't the idea of public travel - like cycling - supposed to be to make it easy for occasional users not just the hardcore/enthusiast who will do this everyday whatever. Automated may be ok for season ticket holders but rubbish for the rest.

Of course if you have a heavily subscribed service you may not give a stuff about occasional users, capitalism in action, but I thought public transport was supposed to be a [i]service[/i] not purely a money making machine.

Seems most of the rest of the subsequent entries kind of agree with my first point..

No they don't, know one else seems to think they are overpaid and under worked as you do, that's a view most reserve for the finance sector.

I daresay his members think he's worth every penny, even the >70% who evidently couldn't care less about the strike itself.

The 70% who cared to not vote against it. I guess you could divide them up many ways, 50/50 for and against or say that those who did vote were representative therefore still 70% in favor and 30% against. But it is ridiculous to insinuate that all those who didn't vote opposed the action.

And What have the management and decision makers done to try and avoid the strike? Why keep pointing the finger of blame at the employees who are standing up for each other. If you want to rant about the difficulty caused to commuters, why not assign the blame there?

Saw the two of them on Newsnight last night. Bob Crow doesn't come across as very bright, does he?

BJ basically said, "call off the strike and we'll sit down like adults and discuss this, but I'm not being held to ransom." Crow's response was essentially "yes, but, strike."

Being a grubby Northerner I've little interest in the London public transport system, but it was hard to be sympathetic towards their cause when they're more concerned with striking than talking. Surely the whole point of a strike is to force a discussion?

Well, the office is "manned", I suppose!
[img] [/img]

"Information only. Please use the ticket machines"

😀

No they don't, know one else seems to think they are overpaid and under worked as you do

That's your interpretation based on what you think my politics are.

But it is ridiculous to insinuate that all those who didn't vote opposed the action.

Oh, I agree, old boy. But, that's not what I said. 🙂

BJ basically said, "call off the strike and we'll sit down like adults and discuss this, but I'm not being held to ransom." Crow's response was essentially "yes, but, strike."

So BJ claimed to being held to ransom while holding the axe over 1000 jobs, he expected the unions to compromise while offering nothing in return.

Strangely, 1,000 employees who expressed interest in the redundancy package on offer, didn't seem to see any axes...

The whole thing is like Jurassic Park with 70s language dominating the debate - not a pretty sight for our capital city.

FWIW and admittedly on overland rather than underground, the commute has significantly improved with ticket machines. We have one grumpy old sod in the ticket office who had two speeds (dead slow and stop). He takes delight in long queues and people missing their trains in the morning - a game he admitted to the ladies running the coffee shop. He still survives somehow, but we also have three ticket machines providing an efficient and effective service with much smaller queues. If you are desperate or new, you can risk the GOS otherwise the machines provide a much better service.

BJ and RC were like silly kids in CH4 news last night. Pathetic display.

London Underground is operating a good service on all lines

Yes and the cheques in the post.

So BJ claimed to being held to ransom while holding the axe over 1000 jobs, he expected the unions to compromise while offering nothing in return.

I'm not seeing how that's being held to ransom. If the talks break down, Boris is still free to axe the jobs, Bob is still free to strike. They're both "holding axes."

Bob Crow basically wanted Boris to agree to his desired conclusion of the talks before / instead of having those talks, otherwise he'd go ahead with the strike.

This may be an oversimplification, the bit with Paxman was the first I'd heard of any of it. Just saying that's how it came across to me.

Mr Woppit - Member
Strangely, 1,000 employees who expressed interest in the redundancy package on offer, didn't seem to see any axes...

you believe BJs numbers, how gullible are you?

is that like his 1000 volunteers who he said were turning up to man tube stations today or maybe like his pledge to keep manned stations or his assertions that cyclists were responsible for 2/3rds of all RTAs they were in were because they broke the law....

you believe BJs numbers, how gullible are you?

So what's the 'real' number?

kimbers - Member
Mr Woppit - Member
Strangely, 1,000 employees who expressed interest in the redundancy package on offer, didn't seem to see any axes...
you believe BJs numbers, how gullible are you?

Genius,

Have any unbiased figures for the rest of us then.

It's funny how many people are taking the anti-union angle on this.

I know little about Bob Crow, but I do know that the mooted 'there are jobs for everyone' isn't quite what it was made out to be. There are some jobs available, but where management positions are being dispensed with, the managers and other staff have a bun fight for the remaining jobs. Some will have to take pay cuts to keep their jobs, others will have to either relocate or face a massive commute. And that's before we even get into Mayor Boris's broken promise about stations. Why should anyone trust him when he says 'call off the strike and we'll talk about it'?

It's an inconvenience for a lot of people, but what option do they have? They're NOT overpaid, or even well paid. The conditions they have aren't fab either, and stand to get much much worse under the new system. The the new pay bandings mean people having to take wage cuts to keep their jobs. In the same circumstances, wouldn't everyone fight to keep their job?

real numbers? could be 20 could be 2000

with Borris' history of dishonesty and conveniently pulling bullshit figures out of the air to support his arguments, who knows!?!

They're NOT overpaid, or even well paid.

Based on the slightly simplistic notion that it's his job to maximise the benefits of his members, this suggests that he (RC) isn't doing a very good job.

Seems odd when he has been pretty successful in getting £50k+ salaries in place. Ok, not up to his loftier standards at approx 3x that, but....

....Aren't you bit harsh on big bad bob?

They're NOT overpaid, or even well paid

Well the young lady that used to work in a team of mine who left to become a Customer Service Representative working at the stations for £5k more (than she was earning in a similar but office based role)and the 10 Weeks Holiday and less hours a week may disagree with you..........

I'm not seeing how that's being held to ransom. If the talks break down, Boris is still free to axe the jobs, Bob is still free to strike. They're both "holding axes."

Talks have already broken down, and the strike is being held. What do you expect the union to say "ok we have talked, you have ignored us, now we will go away and let you carry on"

Bob Crow basically wanted Boris to agree to his desired conclusion of the talks before / instead of having those talks, otherwise he'd go ahead with the strike.

Crow said he would suspend strike action if BJ agreed to suspend the proposals they're striking over. What's unreasonable about that?

Well the young lady that used to work in a team of mine who left to become a Customer Service Representative working at the stations for £5k more (than she was earning in a similar but office based role)and the 10 Weeks Holiday and less hours a week may disagree with you

If you paid your staff properly, perhaps they wouldn't be in such a hurry to leave.

Saw the two of them on Newsnight [b]last night[/b].

Going back to the OP title....

Probably showing that they are hanging in, some better than others, but a shadow of their former selves. So today:

At best a partial disruption
No solidarity from other unions
Hardly rousing support even from within RMT
Minimal public sympathy

And all over a debate re 750 roles that may change or in some cases disappear - a bit like watching an ex-premiership footballer playing for a div 2 side and winning a replay in the FA cup. In the end, soon forgotten.

yes THM soon the nobility and bankers will be unopposed once again, we'll be able to go back to 6 day weeks, no holiday or maternity/paternity leave, dump the minimum wage, itll be a capitalists paradise I tell ya!

with Borris' history of dishonesty and conveniently pulling bullshit figures out of the air to support his arguments, who knows!?!

Well, if the real figure was vastly different to the BJ figure, why hasn't BC published it? Maybe it shows something he doesn't want to be know?

perhaps it's worth considering not to sit on either side of the fence and to sit in another camp that states that the whole thing is just bullshit and needs reform.
both Bob and Boris wanted the strikes.

Quite. In my experience, public transport in London is better than anywhere else in the UK.

As someone who moved down to London a couple of months ago I'd agree that public transport in London is pretty good, and certainly better than other UK cities. In the UK v Europe public transport comparison it's the smaller cities that don't fare as well - for example Munich has a vastly better public transport network compare to Edinburgh or Glasgow but not compared to London.

I don't use the tube to commute (from Greenwich to my office I can use use bus, overground train or boat) so wasn't impacted by todays strike although the overground train I used was a bit busier than normal. I was impacted by a signal failure affecting SouthEastern though so decided to get the bus home and work from there this afternoon.

I do need to get from London Bridge to Kings Cross tomorrow evening though - I'll probably walk so hope it doesn't rain!

are you mad?! it's like 3 whole miles....

kimbers - Member
yes THM

How is what follows related to my point?

soon the nobility and bankers will be unopposed once again

Can't recall either in my lifetime. Several centuries since the feudal system. How can an industry be unopposed. Was banking a monopoly?

we'll be able to go back to 6 day weeks, no holiday or maternity/paternity leave, dump the minimum wage, itll be a capitalists paradise I tell ya!

Feel free to tell me what you like, but I seriously doubt any of that will occur, and an odd description of paradise IMO.

are you mad?! it's like 3 whole miles....

Which will be no problem if it's not pissing down. I find I walk loads in London anyway.

Odd that the RMT have released pictures from Waterloo of overcrowding and the obvious hazard to safety. The Waterloo and City is like that most days without any comment. It would be illegal to transport animals int he way that humans are treated on a regular basis at rush hour. Still "LU is operating a good service on all lines."

ransos - Member

Well the young lady that used to work in a team of mine who left to become a Customer Service Representative working at the stations for £5k more (than she was earning in a similar but office based role)and the 10 Weeks Holiday and less hours a week may disagree with you

If you paid your staff properly, perhaps they wouldn't be in such a hurry to leave.

Where the hell else can you get paid a very reasonable salary (for an entry level customer service role), and [u]get 10 weeks holiday, heathcare and pension???[/u]

Nowhere which is why there's a massive waiting list for those jobs. She was interviewed and then waited 2 years bfore they found her a position.

1. Aren't the proposed job cuts covered by voluntary redundancies?
2. Sure, might mean some people move jobs, get pay cuts or increases
3. But net jobs are the point, can't work around vested interest of a minority
4. And anyway, isn't the point to provide the best tube service, not preserve jobs
5. What is the point of ticket offices in any case?
6. How does Bob Crowe earn 150k and live in a council house?

I'm struggling to square that circle. And thats leaving aside the Bob Crowe holiday cheek, entitled to holidays yes of course but priorities should have been elsewhere in his position at that time.

Where the hell else can you get paid a very reasonable salary (for an entry level customer service role), and get 10 weeks holiday, heathcare and pension???

Nowhere which is why there's a massive waiting list for those jobs. She was interviewed and then waited 2 years bfore they found her a position.

Thanks to excellent union leadership, LU has yet to compete in a race to the bottom. Meanwhile you have to waste time recruiting a replacement.

damo2576 - Member

1. Aren't the proposed job cuts covered by voluntary redundancies?
2. Sure, might mean some people move jobs, get pay cuts or increases
3. But net jobs are the point, can't work around vested interest of a minority

Job cuts don't just affect the people who're cut! We went through 3 rounds of redundancy in my last company and the people who got it worst were those who didn't get out early.

Thanks to excellent union leadership, LU has yet to compete in a race to the bottom. Meanwhile you have to waste time recruiting a replacement.

And it all worked so well in the end for every other major union and the workforce/industry it 'protects' - coal? entire British motor industry......?

And it all worked so well in the end for every other major union and the workforce/industry it 'protects' - coal? entire British motor industry......?

The industries (and people) the tories were happy to crush in order to win an ideological battle. They didn't die naturally they were destroyed by intention and the people employed thrown onto the scrapheaps as necessary casualty's in creating an even more unequal society.

If the RMT, do buckle, are they the last of the powerful unions who can and do influence workplace practices.

Lots of powerful unionised workplaces have seen their unions destroyed or the workplaces closed, eg Miners , car industry, etc.Just what thatcher always wanted and failed.

1. Aren't the proposed job cuts covered by voluntary redundancies?

The industries (and people) the tories were happy to crush in order to win an ideological battle. They didn't die naturally they were destroyed by intention and the people employed thrown onto the scrapheaps as necessary casualty's in creating an even more unequal society.

Thanks to excellent union leadership, LU has yet to compete in a race to the bottom. Meanwhile you have to waste time recruiting a replacement.

and now the office workers who work with the police are going on strike for 2 days,Uni staff out today, but nobody noticed them. winter of discontent happening quite fast.

I want 10 weeks holiday a year. How can I get that?

I'm not quite sure about this concept of striking. In the early days, it was an essential tool to bring working clases to a decent standard of living and the labour movement has undoubtedly improved society immeasurably. But where are the checks and balances? What's to stop the union leaders of public services to ransom for whatever they fancy? Surely we need a better system.

kimbers - Member
yes THM soon the nobility and bankers will be unopposed once again, we'll be able to go back to 6 day weeks, no holiday or maternity/paternity leave, dump the minimum wage, itll be a capitalists paradise I tell ya!

People not agreeing with what Bob does is not necessarily a sign of being anti union.

I don't agree with Bob Crow because I think he in the long term is very bad for unions in general, and particularly the RMT. Because he has had strikes over such silly things and the pay and condition are so out of whack with similar roles empathy and support is largely lost from the general public. Once you have lost support your clock will start ticking. This increases the chance of statute to be passed to restrict unions.

He is playing into the hands of people who would like to create the situation you jest about.

I personally think offices should be manned. But what does the decision not to do so have to do with bob crow or boris Johnson? They don't run tfl. at my place over half have gone in the last year or so, but everyone doesn't stop work in sympathy! You work harder and look for another job.

Anyone saying the strike is a good thing doesn't have to put up with the sheer misery of all this crap and have their own job made even more fragile by some who think they have a right to a job for life.

Stick boris and bob in the stocks, they both have chauffeur driven cars I'm sure and never have to deal with the effects if this awful strike.

And breathe.

Stick boris and bob in the stocks, they both have chauffeur driven cars I'm sure and never have to deal with the effects if this awful strike.

My post last night was a bit ranty. Apologies, but under the circumstances etc.

Konabunny, although I don't know I am pretty certain he is. In the style of David Cameron, ie for photo shoots only and followed by his car.