[Closed] traveller camps

mostly they do not want a fixed abode.

I give this an hour.

Beer, anyone? Got a bottle of TEA lined up myself.

is it so they can be in the right places to gather lucky heather ?

tea, in a bottle? lipton iced?

Ton, this TEA...

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🙂

Too much temptation to do naughty things 😛

Excuse my analytical brain, but one thing I have noted about this forum is that threads about gypsies/travellers/gypos/whatever really do not last very long on this site.

😆

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Mrmo - until relatively recently travellers could camp up in many places - common land and so on. This was changed by law so they could not. The local councils were obliged to provide sites for them as a result of this so they could still have somewhere to stop legally. the trouble is many do not - there is only about half the number of sites as there are travellers.

I know the history of these threads,

but i am genuinely curious to know why they are provided special sites, why aren't they forced to live in houses? forced to integrate if you will?

Surely integration would foster understanding of cultures, look at Ulster for what segregation does for community relations.

how exactly do you force someone to live in a house?

I worked for some gypsies a few years ago, they had bought a semi detached house in a cul de sac, they chopped all the trees down, took the front wall down, and put hard standing on what where the lawns and gardens, and parked large caravans on there, probably much to the neighbours annoyance, the thing is they where nice people to talk to, imaculate house and in their person.
Just seems a problem when they take the caravans on the road.

I understand that there is the site thing, but do many travellers actually travel in any meaningful way, if not then what is the difference between living in a house/Caravan/Static Home on a travellers site and living in a house in a housing estate?

Forced to integrate?

Mrmo these people have been travelling round these islands for a long time - when the right to camp on common land was removed they needed to have somewhere to stop hence the sites

Should you be forced to live somewhere you don't want to - lets have some integration and we must have people earning a lot of money living on sink estates for integration and dole scum living posh estates

What percentage of the population do travellers represent?

As with many rules there will be an exception to the rule, I guess.

Got a bottle of TEA lined up myself.

Typing this sat less than 2 miles from the brewery 🙂

Lucky heather anyone ?

So why are travellers given special sites and not simply offered housing?

Isn't that the problem - that they are not given sufficient/appropriate sites ? Even they buy their own land, they are rarely allowed to live their preferred lifestyle. The original idea to provide them with designated areas was to overcome illegal and inappropriate sites, I believe that the government under Thatcher removed the statutory responsibility of local authorities to provide them with a minimal amount of sites.

Either let them camp where they want, or provide them with alternatives. They are small in number and wherever possible people should be allowed to choose how they live. They are a small problem which could easily be resolved. But there lies the problem - small in numbers means small amount of votes, better to appease the outraged Daily Mail bigots.

As ton says, they do not want a fixed abode. And btw I like the way you suggest 'simply offering them housing' as a solution, as if there isn't a housing crises and we're awash with empty homes.

mrmo - Member

So why are travellers given special sites and not simply offered housing?

Because they don't want houses, and because the sites are massively, massively cheaper than giving them houses, oh and we have a huge council house shortage. What possible reason could there be to do otherwise?

Mrmo these people have been travelling round these islands for a long time

[i]these people[/i] ? hardly an homogenous entity. irish travellers are fairly recent immigrants and new age travellers haven't been around for a generation yet. so are you just talking about romany gypsies ?

For a people who are so small in numbers they do seem to leave an asymmetrical mess wherever they lay their hats...

Should you be forced to live somewhere you don't want to - lets have some integration and we must have people earning a lot of money living on sink estates for integration and dole scum living posh estates

Well they build social housing in most estates these days so that is happening?

anyway, If you accept that understanding is the problem, that there are serious deficiencies in education then surely these should be addressed? As for not wanting to live in houses, they are legally allowed to live in ghettos? this is what i find so odd.

Strange how everywhere the council want to build a new site, the locals suddenly fid its infected with Bats, or crested newts as has happened twice in cheshire recently.

Both protected species.

I recall as a youngster travelling round the Scottish Highlands in my Dads car in the summer and we'd see lots of travellers - "tinkers" we'd call them. They'd be off doing seasonal work on farms, fixing stuff (they had a tradition as tin-smiths, hence the nickname), odd-jobs and a bit of pearl fishing. There was quite a few in the 60s, but the numbers steadily dwindled. Some of that was due to the fact that they'd settle down, get a "regular" job in the winter months and not be up for the travelling.

My Dad also had this habit of finding these out-of-the-way camp spots for us and it was many years later I found out they had been regular sites for the travellers too. Over the years, these sites became fenced off or developed/planted by the landowners and no replacements have been made available, despite legislation demanding that councils do just that.

The culture of the "genuine" traveller has been with us for centuries. They have their own language (some of which has been borrowed by the Scots - e.g. radge), song, poetry and customs. They have a right for that culture to continue.

However, most of that ^ has little to do with the Irish (and other) travellers we're now seeing over here in increasing numbers and I don't see why we have any obligation to provide sites for them.

I could be wrong but I've read that some certainly like to live as a large family group in close proximity. Not easily dealt with given the current state of council housing.

^^^^

Rights come with responsibilities and sadly some people seem to forget about that (this statement also applies to non-"travellers").

I used to work over in Rosyth and their were a bit group of travellers who used to pitch up in the carpark regularly every year and I could not understand some of the things they used to get up to like stripping trees of bark and then setting fire to mature trees as well (plus lots of other unsavoury stuff), just plain weird stuff in my opinion.

One other thing to note is that they would only turn up from May through to July (when they were evicted) and I used to wonder where they live for the rest of the year, particularly the winter as the last two winters must have been hard going living in caravans.

do we have increasing numbers of travellers from Ireland?

I know teenage offspring of 'new age travelers'. Is that not a new generation?

you still haven't made yourself clear with reagrd to [i]these people[/i] being around for a long time tj, so i'll repeat

these people ? hardly an homogenous entity. irish travellers are fairly recent immigrants and new age travellers haven't been around for a generation yet. so are you just talking about romany gypsies ?

Irish travellers aren't a new phenomenon at all, why would you think that? The first official record of irish travellers in the UK is over 150 years ago. They weren't officially recognised in the census etc til recently which seems to confuse some people.

these people - travellers - irish tinkers, roma, the summer walkers of the highlands new age travellers

all treated the same in legislation. travelling people have been in the UK for a long time.

The bottle is now empty. All I have left is a bottle of Mount Gay Extra Old.

I have plenty of ice ready as well. So, who'll join me?

Irish travellers aren't a new phenomenon at all, why would you think that? The first official record of irish travellers in the UK is over 150 years ago. They weren't officially recognised in the census etc til recently which seems to confuse some people.

brilliant, there's no census data so it's obviously people on the opposite side of your argument who are confused 😆

as i understand it, the vast majority of irish travellers in the uk are a result of the motorway construction boom post wwii which would certainly make them recent arrivals.

i'll gladly admit to being confused about that if it helps.

these people - travellers - irish tinkers, roma, the summer walkers of the highlands new age travellers

all treated the same in legislation. travelling people have been in the UK for a long time.

well then the law is clearly an ass because new age travellers have very obviously not been in the uk for a long time. if you want to pay for their lifestyle choices, go ahead.

Ah well - enjoy your ignorance.

Irish tinkers were going onto the farm my family came from around the turn of the century that I know of.

New age traveller have been travelling the country since before the right to camp on common land was removed.

Ah well - enjoy your ignorance.

i'm sure you don't want to appear a pompous arse that resorts to insults once you've lost the argument so i'll give you the chance to prove the antiquity of the new age traveller movement.

🙄

Trailmonkey, TJ is more than happy to appear, and to be, a pompous ass. He has displayed this on numerous occasions. In my opinion, he should stop arguing on here so much and get a life, but that's only my opinion.

so you can't.

because you can't,

Ah well - enjoy your ignorance.

🙄

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i think we're seeing a new variation of the EDL

No trailmonkey - what you are seeing is that I cannot be bothered with you. this was a reasonable discussion until you joined it.

Just finished working ... Anyone fancy joining me in a nicely chilled glass of pinot grigo and some Tyrrells hand cooked crisps?

The trouble is when the feelings and beliefs of left-leaning people like me actually meet with the cold reality of how traveller families sometimes work. I get to deal a little bit with travellers, not as much as my wife. Some strong matriarchal families. Some where physical and other abuse within families seems common. Some where they define them self as different from the Gorgie and out to take them for what they can. I know too many people I trust who have witnessed stuff getting nicked, threats of violence etc to believe in a romantic rural idyll of honest travellers.

What is the answer? No idea.

why not tj because i've made a valid point - that is not based on prejudice or ignorance - that you cannot answer.

there is no way that you can back up that new age travellers have been in the uk for a long time which is what you claimed.

for some reason you think that this is ample reason to insult me.

classy bloke.