[Closed] Transgender children at school...

but that quote reads like that is your opinion of today

That quote reads like he's taking the piss...

Where, therefore does this 'Christian' belief originate?

It's not a Christian belief. It's a belief held by some people who identify as Christians. Doesn't mean that it applies to the rest of us.

There's a girl in my office who is about six foot two, strikingly pretty with long blonde hair.
She fervently supports Heart of Midlothian football club and identifies as a lesbian.

That doesn't make being a Jambo a "Lesbian Belief"

That quote reads like he's taking the piss...

school on the Isle of Wight

Does it make me racist that I assumed they were from Norfolk or Linconshire?

It is nice to read that most posts say ... when their children have experienced this they are completely not bothered by it at all. It seems the adults are the ones that get all steamed up about the subject.

big_n_daft - Member
Only atheism appears be without such nuance

Atheism isn't a faith.

Apologies in advance if this is offensive (I don't think it is but there you go)

Is six years old not a little young to be calling the child transgender. He's six ffs he can wear what he likes when my lad was younger he walked around in a onesie with his sisters pink ballet skirt on and a Halloween bucket on his head whilst wearing wellies Then he went thru a shirt and trousers stage and Now at eight he appears to want to walk around dressed like a chav.

His sister who's ten likes dolls and Princess things but wears jeans most of the time and trousers to school

They are not trans or confused they are just little kids. If later in life that changes then so be it but for now they don't need labels they need freedom and fun like all kids

They did exist at your school. They always have.

Very much this. You can't shield kids from stuff you're not comfortable with, but you can do your utmost to prepare them. Perhaps a great start would be to explain that we used to live in less enlightened times and a lot of people had to hide out of fear, so that a small minority of bigoted snowflakes might avoid being mortally offended because an individual doesn't conform to someone else's norms that are imposed upon them.

Where, therefore does this 'Christian' belief originate?

Isn't god gender neutral ?

[img] [/img]

I once had a heated discussion with a bloke who insisted that Jesus, a middle eastern man with some Ethiopian heritage, was in fact a white bloke with blond hair and beard.

Sometimes the most obvious truths subvert.

Firestarter - don't think what you've said is offensive but I think you're confusing dress sense with gender identity (which is not unreasonable as they are linked). I can't speak for any trans person but those I have spoken to said that they've always just known *something* was up with their gender and some of them took longer to figure it out than others.

As an aside - why do all fundamentalist "Christians" have such bad hair?

I have bad hair, are you calling me a Christian fundamentalist?

As an aside - why do all fundamentalist "Christians" have such bad hair?

From wearing bicycle helmets.

but I think you're confusing dress sense with gender identity (which is not unreasonable as they are linked)

Or lack of it...

😆

FWIW Firestarter, I had an interesting discussion about gender with my 7yo daughter the other day (following on, in my mind, from the "No More Boys and Girls" documentary and, in her mind, from the final episode of Annedroids where [i]*Spoilers*[/i] PAL decides they don't want to be a boy or a girl 😀 ).

Anyway, my daughter said she sometimes felt like she was a boy. 😯

I very delicately attempted to prise this apart a little and she revealed it was because she liked playing football and karate, and she liked playing with boys. 🙄

Fair enough but at that age to me it's way too young. I wonder if the parents are perhaps making the same mistake regarding clothing and gender more than the childs actual behaviour

If people didn't make such a bloody fuss out of the whole thing, it wouldn't matter, would it? 🙄

Rachel

I have bad hair, are you calling me a Christian fundamentalist?

Four Sur he is.
Get your pentecostalist ass to a hair stylist now.

allthegear - Member

If people didn't make such a bloody fuss out of the whole thing, it wouldn't matter, would it?

Rachel

all too true. Really I don't care what others do so long as it doesn't affect me. I personally have great difficulty in understanding the feelings of the people identifying as gender fluid / neutral / trans but thats my problem. It has precisely zero impact on me so what business of mine is it?

If it doesn't hurt anyone else it shouldn't matter to anyone else.

It's not a Christian belief. It's a belief held by some people who identify as Christians. Doesn't mean that it applies to the rest of us.

In part, this is the point I was trying to make, the Rowes appear to be making up their own beliefs and labelling them 'Christian'.

Jesus was silent on Homosexuality as well - though Paul had a few things to say. I don't think Gender fluidity was a widely known concept in first century Judea - another very good reason not be be trying to run the world according to a set of heavily edited texts from two millennia ago, makes the intervening progress in human affairs rather pointless.

Anyway, my daughter said she sometimes felt like she was a boy

My daughter thinks that she was meant to have been born an otter.

Kids up to the age of about 6 tend to be the most open minded, non judgmental brilliant examples to all of us.

It's always revealing how, even though I'm sure they believe the rest of their child's godless classmates and their parents are probably going to hell, their focus is entirely to do with gender issues.

Why not remove their kids because their mates don't know Jesus or go to church?

My [u]personal[/u] view is that six is too young to [i]know [/i] that one's gender is 'wrong' and that for an adult to suggest or encourage a child to dress, act or behave in any particular manner is harmful and potentially negligent. Any child will have phases of behaviour.

We should be raising the next generation to shrug their shoulders and accept others whatever their characteristics, not putting six year olds into boxes that they may struggle to leave if their feelings change with time.

not putting six year olds into boxes that they may struggle to leave if their feelings change with time

surely thats exactly what the parents are doing, lettingthe child dress as they please?

surely thats exactly what the parents are doing, lettingthe child dress as they please?

Exactly my point - but for the school to say 'right, little Maisey is now transgender, we have policies and procedures for this' and make it common knowledge to all and sundry could make Maisey reluctant or embarrassed to do anything differently if his/her feelings change with time.

The thing that is so sad is the thought of one of their kids being gay/trans/gender issues. They talk about emotional damage as if it is something that happens to other peoples kids, whist being entirely blinkered that their own kids may well be coming to them in the future with the very same issues.

Siwhite - you seem to be assuming a transgender policy implies the child has changed from one gender to another. It’s not at all like that. More just a case of saying that the child is expressing a gender identity or behaviour out of the usual.

Not really, all faiths have spectrums of interpretations in their texts, faith and what is or isn't compliant behaviours

Only atheism appears be without such nuance

Don't be silly, atheists don't believe in just as wide a spectrum of interpretations. It's not that atheists lack nuance, it's that people with faith don't have the flexibility and complexity to believe in a wide variety of interpretations all at the same time in the way that atheists manage to disbelieve.

Assuming that their claim is correct* that it offends their Christian beliefs and may leave other children confused:

Well so ****ing what? Be offended and confused, it's [i]someone else's kid[/i] for crying out loud. You can't go through life avoiding everyone you don't agree with.

(* - clue, it's not)

that for an adult to suggest or encourage a child to dress, act or behave in any particular manner is harmful

Such as telling boys they can't wear dresses...?

I dont get it. A kid goes go school dressed as a boy one day and a girl the next and their kids dont understand that. I'm not sure whats to understand?
I explained to my kid that such and such had two dads, righto said junior can I have an ice cream? Another time right such and such who you met last year wants to be a girl now so dresses as a girl. Does that meant I wont get her old clothes now says junior well they'll be girls clothes oh right no then. Can I have an ice cream?

[quote=allthegear ]If people didn't make such a bloody fuss out of the whole thing, it wouldn't matter, would it?
Rachel

I agree. The question is at what point do you develop any real sense of gender rather than just being a person (other than it being something society imposes on you, which is what we're presumably trying to avoid). I'm also tempted to agree that at 6 kids don't really have a sense of gender - or at least they wouldn't if it wasn't that society has already spent years imposing one on them. Ideally all children that age would be gender neutral / gender fluid, but it's not really an ideal we're ever going to reach - though if that is what has happened with the children and parents in this case, then I applaud it.

Certainly when my oldest was little he liked wearing dresses - but then I expect that is the case for most/all little boys who don't have such things forced out of them by dads with a fixed view on such things (though my youngest didn't have the same level of enthusiasm IIRC). From what I can work out the main reason he grew out of it as soon as he did was peer pressure, but then that's the sort of thing which is going to exist no matter how enlightened everybody is so long as there is are distinct gender images in terms of the way people dress. He still likes wearing nail varnish and I'm sad that it's not something he can do without being teased. Is he transgender? I don't think so, though couldn't rule it out, he's just not completely stuck in the "boy" box.

If a six year old child believes he's a giraffe does that make him a giraffe?

Nope.

Not really the same thing though. This is about how the kids want to present themselves.

If a six year old child believes he's a giraffe does that make him a giraffe?

Whats that got to do with anything?

If a six year old child believes he's a giraffe does that make him a giraffe?

The boy remains a boy. No-one's in denial about this. But he wants to wear a dress. And so what if he does? Why should anyone care?

How hard can it be to dictate to, manipulate or programme a 6 yr old child? 🙄

Tell the child the earth is square and the child will accept that. 😆

Tell the child pigs used to fly and the child will accept that. 😛

Nobody should care let alone another kid's parents. Labelling the child 'trans' would be reason to be concerned though.

Calling the child 'trans' would be reason to be concerned though.

Especially if the kid is overweight. Cos trans fat is considered bad now.

How hard can it be to dictate to, manipulate or programme a 6 yr old child?

I'm going to assume you're not a parent then chewkw? 😆

Tell him/her the earth is square and the child will accept that.

Well they won't - but you have a point. The child of those "Christians" is probably a lot more accepting of the situation than they are.

I heard the R4 interview, and they got a soft ride. They also appeared to come across as lacking in social skills and awareness themselves. The tell was when he said "boys are boys and girls are girls".

Well, in 1950 maybe, but nowadays when we have a much better understanding of gender, identify and sexuality - and they are not necessarily linked.

I think that's where the parents showed their real failing. They seemed to link gender with sexuality, and it's a whooooole lot more complex than that.

Adrian Chiles on R5 later gave them a bit of a spikier time and they got a bit grumpy, which was nice.

They failed to grasp that there is nothing new in gender identity, just that in a more modern age we have a better understanding that not everyone is comfortable in the body their in, with how they and othesr identify them, and the expectations society places on them.

Schools try and deal with this as it's a damn sight easier than having to deal with little boys intent on cutting their penis off and or growing up with a feeling of such little self worth and concept of self that they end up taking their own lives

but hey, at least two idiots from the Isle of Wight got to try throw a spanner in the works, and employ a rabidly evangelical lawyer with form to do this for them in the process.