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Its now just people out for a spot of recreational looting.
Means and IQ testing - if you fail you're immediately sterilised for the benefit of others
This is actually the methods of fascism. Not in the whiny student politics 'I disagree so I'll call you a fascist' way. As in the actual definition of fascism.
Is it something about STW that attracts an above average number of people with these views, or is it actually representative of a nation that, given a nudge, is really not too far from the horrors of the mid 20th century?
How the **** does anyone expect the police to deal with the situation which has arisen today ? I'm sure the police fully "understand that their job is to protect the population and prevent criminality" FFS
Watch [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/aug/08/london-riots-hackney-police-response ]this[/url] at about 30 sec in.
What part of 'protecting the population' is punching a man filming?
As I said earlier this morning - the only thing we can do is manage them through the system as there will ALWAYS be elements of a society that wont conform. Its called human nature.
The only way would be to go back to Victorian workhouses and severely restrict benefit/criteria- i.e if you are of working age you have to do community service to receive benefit.
Anyway- looking at the forecast it rains from tomorrow onwards. Ergo riots over.
Means and IQ testing - if you fail you're immediately sterilised for the benefit of othersThis is actually the methods of fascism. Not in the whiny student politics 'I disagree so I'll call you a fascist' way. As in the actual definition of fascism.
So your saying Sweden is a fascist state?
I haven't gone back through the posts made since my last comment last night.
However i have had a couple of thoughts
Some double standards on display (not just here but across other media) Not long ago the Police were being criticised for their tactics and protesters and rioters were being cheered on during the Uni fee's riots/looting
But as soon as the lower class scum start to do there is uproar about them and the Police (who can't win) get criticised for not doing enough!
(I'd just like to point out that i also thought the Uni rioters should have been shot too)
My final thought is that these Chav scum who think rioting/looting/destroying their neighbourhood is a way of getting respect are the people who are breeding out of control. In generation or two's time they will be taking over
So your saying Sweden is a fascist state?
Evidently not. Please explain.
parkesie: The scary thing is that it's gone further than that: rioters entering restaurants and robbing diners, robbing teenagers on the street after pretending to help them, people breaking into homes and stealing personal belongings.
"Its called 'parents'. They are the cause."
Unfortunately I think that is now the case, but the battle was lost with the parents, and cant be blamed on the kids today.
Some where the parent generation lost the morales of whats right and wrong, and how to be a good parent. So the kids now have no idea what so ever.
I actually thought the Police commissioner last night had balls to say Parents make sure you know where your kids are and get them home. I thought that was an incredibly refreshing thing to hear on TV as normally its always some one elses responsibility ie the teachers or the police.
I do think its a shame that the government is so decisive to act in other countries where society breaks down, and terrorist alerts are raised in the UK etc. However when our own people set about causing more damage than you could argue any terrorism has done in the last 10 years (yes no loss of life.. as yet) then they do nack all.
Yep morals and values begin at home from birth. A teacher gets the whirlwind/aftermath of whats already happened for years and is still happening when they go home again.
How can a 35yr old female control a rowdy element in a class of 30?
hora - MemberAs I said earlier this morning ...........
Yes I know, but I do love it when you keep repeating it over and over again.
I feel spoilt.
Chocolates and a pint of mild do you?
Oh and I'll go and get you some crisps in a moment sweetie 😛
My good there is some incredibly stupid nonsense on this thread.
Fromanother thread a few bits of sense. I shall quote them on here in the hope one or two folk might stop with the reactionary knee jerking long enough to have a little think.
Elfinsafety - MemberPersonally, I feel what has sparked off this massive amount of unrest is the fact that many young people feel utterly powerless over many aspects of their own lives, and are exercising the one form of power they feel they actually have; aggression. I'm not condoning any of the violence in any way whatsoever, regardless of what various dickheads on here may think and have suggested; I think it's a tragedy that so many people seem to think violence and crime is acceptable and even 'fun'. It's a f-ed up situation when so many people get caught up in the hysteria and madness. Those mindless idiots out there don't even know what damage they are doing to their own communities, innocent people and even their own futures.
But I think it's pointless to condemn; of course it's flipping wrong. Of course it is. Any right-minded person knows this, and I dare say most of those involved will regret their actions once they grow up a bit and reflect on the consequences.
What concerns me is the level of hatred and anger within so many people. Including those making moronic statements on here.
Why are we living in a society where this is so rife? Why such massive divisions between members of our society?
Truth is that increasing numbers of people just don't care any more, about their society, their community, and worst of all, themselves.
ernie_lynch - MemberThe situation were are witnessing today was always eventually going to arrive, whichever party was in power - it's been a pressure cooker ready to explode for a very long time. Youth unemployment stands at almost 1 million, the highest ever. And the total including those studying etc, is 3 million, ie 3 million young people not earning any wages at all. And yet they are sold daily the false unachievable dreams of fame and wealth.[b] They are told day in and day out that they should aspire to own vast amounts of material wealth, and that to aspire for anything less than that represents failure.[/b]
And yet youth in huge swathes of our communities are given zero chance of achieving anything. Employers would rather opt for the easier and cheaper alternative of offering jobs to fully trained Poles or Lithuanians, than to give British school-leavers any hope of learning a trade. This attitude is backed up by the typical half-wits on this forum, who at any given opportunity vilify young people dismissing them all as chavs, lazy, ****less, etc.
Well all the pent-up frustrations have finally turned ugly, and very ugly too - I will be surprised if there are no fatalities after tonight. But no one should be very surprised - did anyone really think we could cripple Britain's youth and then taunt them for being lame indefinitely ? And blaming it all on the Tories is far too simplistic. We haven't arrived where we are because of something which happened back in May last year - you need to go much further back, years, if not decades.
Good point nedrapier and they've seen they can get away with it and that doesn't set a good precident.
without fear of upsetting anyone I think pretty hard tactics are needed to bring this now and make them scared of behaving like this again.
@duntmatter, Do a bit of reading on eugenics and the state enforced policy that Sweden operated until 1975.
Eugenics is not a fascist issue, it occurs in many societies to a greater or lesser extent. It is not a big step from the Chinese one child policy, or the dumping of female offspring in India.
There is in Humans a tendency to seek scapegoats, to find someone to identify and to blame them, it might be jews, muslims, americans, the rich, the poor, etc. Then once you have someone to blame you look at how you can deal with them.
The solution might be Auschwitz, it might be Los Desaparecidos, different societies different methods, same end, control.
There is some positive to be taken from the whole shocking situation, in that hopefully Lord Coe will be shitting his smug little pants.
Hmmm couldn't they riot in the Olympic village?
TandemJeremy - MemberFrom another thread a few bits of sense....
Agreed.
Sorry TJ buts it's wishy washy let's sit down and talk about it bollocks that's prevented these problems being nipped in the bud.
There is a large portion of society who does not care why they feel upset and have worked through adversity without resorting to this type of behaviour; you need to accept that some of us would happily take a shield and bat and beat them back to their mummies
This worked with football hooliganism;
Ben - how about a little bit of analysis about how we got to this and thus some solutions to the situation?
did you actually bother to read the quotes?
Some double standards on display (not just here but across other media) Not long ago the Police were being criticised for their tactics and protesters and rioters were being cheered on during the Uni fee's riots/looting
There is something in this IMO, but the police themeselves are partially responsible for this to and frowing. I now wonder if it would have been better not to take the force bit away from the police? was that little bit of fear you had when you did something wrong a good thing, I'm tempted to say yes.
If you look at any footage of any trouble there seems to be no fear or worry or concern from the people involved or those just nearby, I mean you even get groups of girls arm in arm waving at the cameras whilst winding there way through the police units. As if they have no respect or even ackowledge the police, like the police and the law aren't limked in anyway.
Sticking my neck out for a flaming here, but it seems the 'untouchable' status they aquired in school has fully encompassed their lives.
Bit frickin hard to turn that back though after all this time.
I'm going to suspend disbelief and admit, it's true
I AGREE WITH TJ, ELF AND ERNE LYNCH (that last one cant be true)
Unemployment might not be going up but most of the jobs we create go to nice shiny (white) Poles and Czechs. Our kids get a 3rd rate education, rotten parenting and told to go straight onto benefits just like mum. Relentless diet of footballers tweeting from their McMansions, X-Factor and XBox video games......lets not be surprised that when the opportunity arises for a bit of recreational looting they take it.
And please can we hear no more from the likes of Diane Abbot about police not communicating with the "Community" and "Community Leaders". What kind of community lets their kids run around in the streets all night? Where were your kids last night, ask yourself that.
I couldn't agree more with Tandem. Except the bit about not being given a chance to work or the jobs being taken away from them. The Eastern Europeans are being given the work and the corresponding pay and aren't rioting. Why are the work shy gimps rioting again?
Poles and Czechs seem to be doing the jobs (physical work) that alot of people here wont do.
What do the yuff want? Bling bling without the graft.
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/15/theresa-may-cut-police-budget-without-violent-unrest ]Theresa May is like the opposite of mystic meg[/url]
Unemployment might not be going up but most of the jobs we create go to nice shiny (white) Poles and Czechs.
That's untrue. 🙄
"Unemployment might not be going up but most of the jobs we create go to nice shiny (white) Poles and Czechs."
Thats because they are prepared to work and put effort in and respect their bosses etc etc. Thats why they get the jobs.
"Sticking my neck out for a flaming here, but it seems the 'untouchable' status they aquired in school has fully encompassed their lives."
oh yes .... - by all accounts its only gotten worse since i left but when i was at school(im 25 now) it was just starting to be kids carrying knifes and beating up teachers on a regular basis ...
my cousins still at the same school now (in a quiet seaside town in scotland) and it sounds worse than ever - teachers cant do anything to control them .....
even the missus quiet rural country school had folks going nuts and throwing fire extinguishers through classroom windows last term (not her class though)
bring back the belt ! (and im not even old enough to remember it ! )
TJ, I've read your comments and agree that there is a long road that has led to the creation of a disenfranchised underclass, the problems are complex and the solutions difficult BUT this behaviour is unacceptable and opportunistic, there are no leaders emerging from these groups with a manifesto and some of us believe it should be stopped with force; once they are sitting nicely then we can begin
Thats because they are prepared to work and put effort in and respect their bosses etc etc.
I'm not for a second criticising the employers, why would a businessperson do anything else, the CBI will bore you to death with statistics showing the positive effects of imigration. But what about the consequenses of this ultra-liberalism, what effect does this free movement of people have on the white working class or 2nd and 3rd generation immigrant black kids? We reap what we sow.
I generally save most of my hatred for Elfin these days, sadly his post that TeeJ quoted contains a hell of a lot of sense...
Chapeau
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/8585744/These-welfare-reforms-wont-hit-the-spot.html ]yes i know it is a telegraph article, but this is the problem.[/url]
There is a strong perception that the jobs market has for years been relying on immigration and not on training young british born people.
Bit chicken and egg though, you have a lot of unemployable youths, you have people who believe you can have it all, but you need staff so you go where you can get them.
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😉
Ben - did I say anything different?
Sticking my neck out for a flaming here, but it seems the 'untouchable' status they aquired in school has fully encompassed their lives.
Nail on the head!
bring back the belt ! (and im not even old enough to remember it ! )
I can, well the cane that is.
Yeah it's a complex situation and all that guff. However I still say send the army in and deploy sleeping gas, put the rioters/looters in planes and drop them off in Afghanistan on IED clearance duty.
Mcboo - We live in a capitalist state so its open competition for jobs. So as a person you have direct ability to "reap what we sow"
I know it is harder for some than others, but every one in the UK has opportunity, its just some are not prepared to take that opportunity.
I'm with BenHouldsworth on this one. Control them first and then look at the problems behind it. These kids have no respect for anything so treating them like animals IMO is ok.
Sticking my neck out for a flaming here, but it seems the 'untouchable' status they aquired in school has fully encompassed their lives.
They went to Eton?
It means they have to try harder at school, develop better interview skills, buy a smart shirt and shoes instead of x box games m, MTFU and be grateful to live in a country that people will travel all the way fro Eastern Europe to work in
It means they have to try harder at school, develop better interview skills, buy a smart shirt and shoes instead of x box games m, MTFU and be grateful to live in a country that people will travel all the way fro Eastern Europe to work in
Comedy gold
Yep, just dismiss it as comedy, Dave, but the point is valid. There's a generation who seem to believe that not only are they untouchable, but also that the state, nay the world, owes them a living. Bleating on about "I got my rights, innit?" is all well and good, but with rights come responsibilities.
Half the cabinet were members of the bullingdon club, that's the example of behaving like a mindless yob and where it gets you in society. people with every advantage in life and they still behave the same way, only they are rich enough to bully there way out of the consequences.