[Closed] Tory voters - happy with your choice?

Yep, still happy.

They took on a nasty situation and are dealing with it as well as anyone could, given the constraints of both national deficit / debt and governing in Coalition.

Also relieved Brown not still in No. 10, of course!

TSY. Yeah cos there's so many jobs going spare isn't there? Especially for low-skilled workers who've been unemployed for years. I'm beginning to think you have masterfully trolled me TBH. 😆

Not being challenged at work still TSY?

I'm beginning to think you have masterfully trolled me TBH.

I've got a meeting. I'll be back asap to share my new thoughts on the NHS.

Haha, good effort sir! 😳

Yep, still happy.

They took on a nasty situation and are dealing with it as well as anyone could, given the constraints of both national deficit / debt and governing in Coalition.

Also relieved Brown not still in No. 10, of course!

Fair enough I suppose. 😕 What about the fuel crisis manipulation - good idea?

[i]it's a very convenient myth for people to claim they came from the gutter and made it all on their own, it's usually bollocks though unfortunately. [/i]

What ?.

Right, I had written a brief precis of my backround to demonstrate that you're the one posting the bollocks.

But it won't make a difference.
And why should I divulge the details of the train wreck of a start to my life, just to prove you wrong.

There are lots of people who weren't born to even the usual advantages in life.
Who none the less, go on to make good enough to be able to stand on their own two feet.

They, like me, do it quietly and just get on with their lives.
We do not need thanks, recognition or pity.

I think on the economy they are doing the best they can to clear up the mess left by 13 years of Gordon Brown running the economy. I am broadly happy with their efforts in what are VERY difficult circumstances. I am not convinced that a Keynsian approach would have helped the UK, we had already invested much under Labour, paying for it was the challenge!
On students and the young, I think we have a generation betrayed by all the major parties. Increased tuition fees is the main thing that would drive me away from Tory/Lib Dem voting. We have a duty to educate our next generation, and this should be paid for out of general taxation. Its to the whole countries benefit to have an educated population, and if taxation is progressive then anyone whose career benefits from that education will pay more into the system (like what I does because of my edumication!).

[i]Yeah cos there's so many jobs going spare isn't there? Especially for low-skilled workers who've been unemployed for years[/i]

You will find that those jobs have been [i]Globalized[/i] and so as a consequence, have ended up in India and China.

Anyone remember GB's buzz word of the nineties ?.
Yes, that right, all GB could talk about was globalization and how the UK would be able to compete on a global stage.
Well, that was freaking niave.
When that stage was heavily populated with a work force willing to work for much less than anyone in the UK can.

Grum. Have any chinese good your house ?.
If so, then you have contributed to why we have no jobs for [i]low skilled workers[/i] in this country now.
Cept for cleaning, and other service sector industries.
Services, crikey !, that sector has some of the lowest wages, the longest hours.

Labour were spending more than we could afford.
If GB had remainded in power, we would certainly be in a situation where we would now owe more than we earn.

Labour may have felt they had a duty to realize their version of a social agenda for the UK.
But were they get it wrong is that they do it at the destruction of the nations finances.
This is why they always fail to bring about real social change.
And so therefore, they fail us.

Furthermore, while pursuing whatever political goal Labour desired, they also had a responsibilty to handle the nations finances [b]responsibly[/b]

[i]We have a duty to educate our next generation, and this should be paid for out of general taxation. Its to the whole countries benefit to have an educated population, and if taxation is progressive then anyone whose career benefits from that education will pay more into the system (like what I does because of my edumication!).[/i]

I agree with this to an extent.

But, who introduced the fees, IIRC it was Mr Blair, No ?.

I'm not a student now, and I do not have children.
But I don't like to see the youth getting into so much debt.
I would happily see the fees stopped to be replaced with a shake up of how the tax revenue is distributed.

9/10 - Good troll 🙂

Labour were spending more than we could afford.
If GB had remainded in power, we would certainly be in a situation where we would now owe more than we earn.

Nope - labout were spending more than raised in taxes - the alternative answer is to raise taxes to the levels in say Germany or france - where taxation is higher then you pay for healthcare on top of taxation.

Its interesting how entrenched ideas seem to dominate peoples thinking regardless of the evidence.

Its pretty clear that the current economic situation is totally based on the international banking crisis, and that our nations current debt crisis is pretty much in a straight line related to the least-worse scenario of bailing out the banks to avoid total melt down. It is also pretty clear that the banking crisis relates directly back to the policies of one M. Thatcher and her crony R. Reagan Esq who instituted actions that took the controls off banks that had previously existed. i.e. for example when I got married in 1980 you were not able to borrow more than twice the principle income for a mortgage, if you wanted to borrow money from the bank you faced an interview with the Bank manager to demonstrate the need /logic and it was extremely unlikely that you would get more than 2/3rds of the cost of whatever the purchase might be. There were no credit cards in general circulation.
Those policy changes have fuelled house price inflation and the credit boom over the last 20 or 30 years, and we now have to pay the ferry man. Its thats simple.
It is also clear that reintroducing controls on banks might have been a good idea, but as the current government is demonstrating, it’s a doomsday option, and anytime you talk about it the response from the banks is goodbye we’re off to Zurich, Hong Kong or wherever. Having jumped out of the manufacturing pongd and into the financial services one with both feet the simple fact is our economy is screwed without it and it doesn’t much matter who’s in No 10.

The very best long term policy would be to encourage manufacturing growth, by investing in small businesses and manufacturing, but guess who doesn’t want to lend money to facilitate that? Vested interest? Cynical? Yep certainly.

Take a look at what Thatchers cabinet all do now. Pretty much across the spectrum on the board of major banks.

So lets just kill off the notion that Gordon Brown and or Tony Blair are responsible for the international banking crisis. They very well may be accused of not having the balls to try to rein the banks in, but then they aren’t alone in that, or has everyone failed to notice how well the bonus culture has been reined in…….NOT!

[i]You did something about your situation, well done. But you clearly don't care about anyone else's situation. Thats called being selfish.[/i]

Clearly you haven't a clue.

By sorting myself out, I have already helped you.
As you don't get the bill to carry my ass.

Also, where does this default assumption come from that I don't help others ?.

Nowhere.

You're deliberately prejudice against me without knowing anything about me other than I had a very poor start, but that I have worked hard in order not to be a burden to anyone else.

And thats a bad thing ?.
🙄

To be fair Solo, you do have a slightly abrasive manner too.

Wow! to Solo. What a piece of work.

Hang on, not only did they not have the balls to reign the banks in, they tore the living arse out of the earnings from these banks. They [i]courted[/i] these banks. It cannot be denied that GB etc weren't responsible for the international credit crisis, but they did nothing at all to safeguard us from it; quite the opposite. During the "boom" (which they proudly took credit for) they never once ran a surplus and even sold off UK assets (which I find incredible).
Don't mistake me for a tory boy; I'm not, but labour deserve a large amount of blame for the state of this countries' affairs.
Thatcher may have put the policies in place, but it was Brown who stretched them to snapping point.

Solo, i said

What about the vulnerable in society, likes all the disabled people losing support, benefits etc?

You said 'stop whining'

😀

It appears that the press have uncovered my lying political ways.

I'm red or dead. The only affinity I have with DC is that I live in his constituency. My vote has been pointless my whole life.

but that I have worked hard in order not to be a burden to anyone else.

Out of interest was your hard work truthfully simply for altruistic reasons or was it due to limited choices?

[i]the alternative answer is to raise taxes to the levels in say Germany or france - where taxation is higher then you pay for healthcare on top of taxation[/i]

Nope !.
Leave as much money as possible in peoples pockets and allow them to make their own provisions.

Its called being a grown up rather than being cradled by the state.
I want the state to play as small a part in my day to day life as possible.

[i]Raise taxes[/i]
Goodness me thats a dumb ass thing to post.

GB did it and look how that turned out.

Raise taxes
Goodness me thats a dumb ass thing to post.

GB did it and look how that turned out.

Solo, what has Osborne done to VAT?

9/10 - Good troll

Me or TSY? 😉

[i]Solo, i said

What about the vulnerable in society, likes all the disabled people losing support, benefits etc?

You said 'stop whining'
[/i]

You also posted:
[i]Pleased by the double dip recession then?[/i]

You also seem to think, that if I work to take care of myself.
This precludes me from caring about others !.

[b]EH ?[/b]

Where, in the name of all that is circular.
Do you think I don't want to see the truely needy in society, get help.
Not the kind of help where they claim DLA for 10 years.
But the kind of help that sees them obtain employment.

You are far too retarded to be bothering with anymore.
Esp on a Friday.

[i]Solo, what has Osborne done to VAT? [/i]

Ha !.

Like Labour weren't planning to raise VAT...
Were they ?.
🙄

genius tandem troll i'd say. Has certainly done the trick! 😉

You also seem to think, that if I work to take care of myself.
This precludes me from caring about others !.

Nope, it's based on your unpleasant, seemingly uncaring attitude.

You are far too retarded to be bothering with anymore.

Nice, I take it all back - you're a real charmer.

Berm bandit, a very sensible post. It seems almost out of place next to others on this thread. Wrecker's right too that it's not just the eighties policies but those in the time between that are coming home to roost now. We're basically reaping the rewards of 30 years of economic mismanagement.
Where my views difer slightly is in the nature of the crisis and one particular key cause.
We're continually told that we're part of an "international economic crisis" but I see it more as a Western economic crisis, and in particular an Anglo-American economic crisis. There was a similar one 10-15 years ago in east asia but they are predominately recovered or well on the way.
By continuing to call it "International" we're choosing to ignore the facts that our actions and policies have created it, and we're almost empowering it with mythical unsolvable strength which is untrue. By recognising we created it, its our problem, then we can focus on our solution. We need to look at our mistakes and compare them to the economies that are growing massively and succeeding presently. China is the biggest example, but we can learn a lot from Japan, South Korrea and even some of Europe.

Going back to the key root cause - "shareholder value maximisation", not just "banking".
Since its introduction in the eighties, Anglo-American business has become obssessed with this. Profits withdrawn from companies, as dividends, have increased 100%, with re-invetment suffering conversely, and the drive has been towards higher short term profits, increased efficiency, and cost cutting. These increasing dividends create the false illusion of growing business, and increase interest in share trading. It's become too easy for shareholders to make and take quick money from our business, with no long term commitment to its economic sustainability. France and China, through State funded businesses; Germany , though heavy unionisation of the workforce; and Japan and S. Korrea through highly inter-dependant super coorperations: they all have business stakeholders whose commitment is to the [u]long term[/u] sustainability of their industry. It shows there are multiple ways to achieve this from very "Left wing" to very "Right wing" but the stable ones now have not chased the quick profits.

Solo - Member
Solo, what has Osborne done to VAT?

Ha !.

Like Labour weren't planning to raise VAT...
Were they ?.

What has that got to do with anything? You said raising taxes was a 'dumbass thing to post' so surely it was a dumbass thing for Boy George to do, regardless of the labour position.

Berm Bandit - Member

but that I have worked hard in order not to be a burden to anyone else.

Out of interest was your hard work truthfully simply for altruistic reasons or was it due to limited choices?

Well?

Do you think I don't want to see the truely needy in society, get help.
Not the kind of help where they claim DLA for 10 years.
But the kind of help that sees them obtain employment.

Will likely need the second coming of christ to facilitate people with physical and learning disabilities becoming able bodied, employable and mobile enough to move off DLA.

Since when do you need to be able bodied to work?
Heard of DDA?

Berm bandit, a very sensible post.

At the risk of being accused of indulging in a mutual appreciation society, ditto right back at yer.

Our political system gravitates against anything longer than a 5 year plan which in Macro economics is not very long at all, and whilst I didn't say it in so many words I agree, the Reagan/Thatcher love in does indeed make it a Anglo-American generated problem.

Yep - work with the disabled.

Have also heard about a lot of discrimination that stills goes on though more covertly than in the past.

Also, some folk reckon there's a bit of a shortage of jobs and lots of competition.

Have also heard about a lot of discrimination that stills goes on though more covertly than in the past.

Also, some folk reckon there's a bit of a shortage of jobs and lots of competition.

Yes. I am happy.

I don't expect Tories to be able to govern the country perfectly but then no parties can.

I don't like some of the Tories clowns but then they are new clowns rather than Labour clowns etc.

Or put it simply most politicians are maggots regardless of the party they belong to.

[b]Trust any politicians then you might as well hang yourself.[/b]

That's a completely different issue, and not one which was being discussed.

It's not thought really, we have an oversupply of labour so naturally those who require more flexibility will lose out to those who are as qualified but able to work as and when and without concessions for access etc.

So are the Tories really stuffing the disabled? Genuine question. Or are they just raising the bar to a sensible level for claimants?

Bearing in mind it was Thatcher that set up a lot of this mess by using disability in ex coal mining areas as a politically expedient way of controling unemployment stats.

Folk should be responsible for their own future and success. And work is the way to achieve this. In my home town of Leeds there is plenty of work if you are willing. The jobs and hours might not be great, but they are there. A safety net is the mark of a civilised society. No one should be destitute. But its there as a net, not a lifestyle.

CHB - Member
So are the Tories really stuffing the disabled? Genuine question. Or are they just raising the bar to a sensible level for claimants?

Have a look at the wonderful Sue Marsh's blog

[url= http://diaryofabenefitscrounger.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/very-definition-of-irony.html ]Diary of a benefit scrounger[/url]

my home town of Leeds there is plenty of work if you are willing

The unemployment rate is at its highest level since 1995. There aren't enough jobs to go round and that's all there is to it.

Thatcher that set up a lot of this mess by using disability in ex coal mining areas as a politically expedient way of controling unemployment stats.

Interesting if you actually look at the Thatcher years, Major years and Blair Years...

[img] [/img]

Have a look at the wonderful Sue Marsh's blog

You are not kidding 😯 Well worth clicking on the I am Spartacus link. Suspected as much, but still a bit of a shocker to see it in print on offical headed paper like that.

Berm Bandit - Member

Berm Bandit - Member

but that I have worked hard in order not to be a burden to anyone else.

Out of interest was your hard work truthfully simply for altruistic reasons or was it due to limited choices?

Well?

<drums fingers on desk and examines nails closely> 😕

We we discussing the issue of employment as a political strategy, not at this particular point in time, so it is irrelevant.

So are the Tories really stuffing the disabled?

Yes. Still we have to pay for that top rate tax cut somehow eh?

Changing employers attitudes will be difficult for sure and definitely needs improving.

And in the meantime we just cut off their benefits?

Since when do you need to be able bodied to work?
Heard of DDA?

Pretty naive view there.