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.... and studios. Don't forget studios.
Cultural Imperialism is big on the single track forums ant it, if it ant how to ride youre bike or what frame material to use its how people in other countries should behave and believe.
and suffrage. No.... erm.... hang on a minute. No. sorry. That doesn't really work, does it?. Actually, it might do if you restructured the sentence slightly
Anyway, sorry. Carry on...... you were saying?
Ooooooooooo look what I've found! You'll like this
Yep you slag of China and then buy their stuff, the computer you are using is most likely made in china, so i think if you are so concerned about the human rights in China you should throw it away as a demonstration of you contempt for the system. If you buy an apple computer you are supporting the Chines government, o the irony.
Do they make the irony too then? Or was that a typo? I know they make irons. Is that what you meant?
Because universal human rights are universal
They're not. Rights are granted by those who hold power.
Nothing universal about them.
5thElefant - Member
Because universal human rights are universalThey're not. Rights are granted by those who hold power.
Nothing universal about them.
At last some one with a brain.
[i]Because universal human rights are universal[/i]They're not. Rights are granted by those who hold power.
Universal human rights are what you have by virtue of being born. They don't depend on anybody else.
Of course opinions may differ on what constitutes a universal right, for example, the Chinese may not consider is a universal right to hold an unpopular view, or to keep your organs on the inside of your body and not given to a person rich enough to pay for them, etc etc etc.
Which irons did you mean though? These:
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or these:
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I think they make both. But I couldn't be certain
Universal human rights are what you have by virtue of being born. They don't depend on anybody else.Of course opinions may differ on what constitutes a universal right, for example, the Chinese may not consider is a universal right to hold an unpopular view, or to keep your organs on the inside of your body and not given to a person rich enough to pay for them, etc etc etc.
Yet its the USA that leads the world in imprisonment per capita . O yes the land of the free.
Universal human rights are what you have by virtue of being born. They don't depend on anybody else.Of course opinions may differ on what constitutes a universal right, for example, the Chinese may not consider is a universal right to hold an unpopular view, or to keep your organs on the inside of your body and not given to a person rich enough to pay for them, etc etc etc
Somebody wrote that on a piece of paper and some other people signed it.
It's not real.
Rights are what are granted to you by those that hold power over you.
Yet its the USA that leads the world in imprisonment per capita
That'll be because of their 'right' to bear arms. If we all had guns in this country, 80% of the adult population would be in prison at any one time. This would be due to shooting someone outside the kebab house at 3 in the morning cos they looked at your bird. Or slightly earlier when they called your pint a puff.
Or maybe its because the Americans routinely imprison people who's opinions they don't much care for? I don't know how the prison population compares to China. I'm having difficulty finding the exact statistics. Can't think why. Normally they're such an open and accessible lot
Anyway... about these irons.....
Your 'rights' are given to you by those in power and can equally be taken away. You have no control over what 'rights' you do and don't have. Therefore they greatly depend on other people.They don't depend on anybody else
You don't [i]have[/i] them when born, you are [i]given[/i] them when you are born. Equally they can be taken away.Universal human rights are what you have by virtue of being born
The concept of Universal Human Rights as something everyone has is a joke. You only have to look at guantanamo bay to realise this.
Yet its the USA that leads the world in imprisonment per capita. O yes the land of the free
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_exe_percap-crime-executions-per-capita
Hmm not according to a quick google it doesnt...
China -- the world’s top executioner -- classifies the death penalty as a state secret. As the world and Olympic guests are left guessing, only the Chinese authorities know exactly how many people have been killed with state authorization.
From http://www.amnesty.org.au/news/comments/11957/
Amnesty seem to usually know of what they speak.
But either way ILG you come across as a monumental Charlie Uniform November Kilo and I usually do not stoop as low as to the futility of bothering to insult someone on the internerds.
one_happy_hippy - Member
Yet its the USA that leads the world in imprisonment per capita. O yes the land of the free
> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_exe_percap-crime-executions-per-capitaHmm not according to a quick google it doesnt...
China -- the world’s top executioner -- classifies the death penalty as a state secret. As the world and Olympic guests are left guessing, only the Chinese authorities know exactly how many people have been killed with state authorization.
From http://www.amnesty.org.au/news/comments/11957/ /p>Amnesty seem to usually know of what they speak.
But either way ILG you come across as a monumental Charlie Uniform November Kilo and I usually do not stoop as low as to the futility of bothering to insult someone one the internerds.
well i do! go find a lorry and get youre head wedged under one of its wheels. How the Chines run their own country ant any thing to do with you.
No doubt another Socialist hippy with a 4 grand bike.
Are you by any chance the Chinese cultural attache?
And why won't you answer the question about the irons? What are you trying to hide? I think we should be told!
Are you by any chance the Chinese cultural attache?
lol
How the Chines run their own country ant any thing to do with you.
Who do you suppose is "running China"? The mass of Chinese citizens? Or a few powerful guys at the top?
The concept of Universal Human Rights as something everyone has is a joke. You only have to look at guantanamo bay to realise this.
Everyone has rights. Whether those rights are respected or not is another matter.
Everyone has rights. Whether those rights are respected or not is another matter.
No they don't. How can they? They don't exist any more than god or underpants gnomes.
Binners i think he may mean the irons the chinese police use to beat you with. Of course he cant really talk about that openly as next time he visits they may not be a nice to him
How the Chines run their own country ant any thing to do with you.
I never said it did and I haven't suggested that the 'west' is any better. I'm merely pointing out your mistakes and inaccuracies.
No doubt another Socialist hippy with a 4 grand bike
Actually I'd consider myself a liberal with a 6.5k bike, a 3k bike and a 2k bike but I don't see what bearing the value of my possessions has on this.
As an aside I know a number of people who have lived and worked in China for up to a decade and I can assure you that from their experiences the image portrayed within metropolitan China is not that which is experienced by most of the indigenous population within rural China.
How the Chines run their own country ant any thing to do with you.
Who do you suppose is "running China"? The mass of Chinese citizens? Or a few powerful guys at the top?
actually the peoples party rule the country, there is a huge parliament and votes often go both ways. Any one could join the party and work their way up, Mao was a poor farmers child. There was also a revolution supported buy a large majority of the population. the government must keep improving their lives to maintain legitimacy, other wise they will suffer the same fate as the USSR and the Warsaw pact did in the 1980's and 90's. They collapsed due to their inability to supply their citizens with goods like those in the west. The organised economy will always fail that is why china introduced free market reforms. There right to rule is not maintained by democracy but rather improvement in living conditions.
Everyone has rights. Whether those rights are respected or not is another matter.
Which makes your rights meaningless.
there is a huge parliament and votes often go both ways.
Well you seem confident so i am certain that you can back this statement up
How many of the policies allready approved by the communist party are actually approved by this parliament then
How many proposas have not been passed then seeing as the vote can go both ways?
Surely a substantial figure eh?
Go google young sir go google
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance
good luck on your long march it may take some time.
here i will save you the bother
In 1993, the NPC refused to consider constitutional amendments proposed by the Chinese Communist Party on the grounds that non-governmental organizations such as the CCP do not have authority to propose legislation. Also in 1994, the Eighth National People's Congress Standing Committee included "Income and Property Law," in the official legislative plan, but was not able to bring it to a vote due to opposition."[11]
A far way from what you have described 2 in all that time and neither were actally voted on.
It is an interesting point that we seem to like to criticise a country like China for its lack of democracy, that from a standpoint where their governmental system arose from a popular revolution which deposed the previous feudal system just 70 years ago. On the other hand we've only recently handed back the neighbouring colony that we held by force for the best part of 200 years and which at no time whatsoever had any meaningful form of democracy under our rule, and where we only abolished the death penalty in 1993!
Seems terribly hypocritical to me.
colony that we held by force for the best part of 200 years
We had a 99 year ease. When the lease came up we left. No holding by force necessary.
Wasn't this thread supposed to be about Ian Tomlinson? 😉
who? 😉
I believe he was some kind of Chinese dissident killed by repressive communist authorities.
entertaining stuff!
After the Chinese defeat in the First Opium War (1839-42), Hong Kong was ceded to Britain in 1842 under the Treaty of Nanking. Britain was granted a perpetual lease on the Kowloon Peninsula under the 1860 Convention of Beijing, which formally ended hostilities in the Second Opium War (1856-58). The United Kingdom, concerned that Hong Kong could not be defended unless surrounding areas also were under British control, executed a 99-year lease of the New Territories in 1898, significantly expanding the size of the Hong Kong colony.
5th hefferlump: Ceded basically means surrendered. You may chose to believe that the Chinese decided we were lovely chaps and could do with a nice place for a holiday and thus leased it to us for a tidy old sum. My interpretation and study of the subject tends to suggest that after a fairly disgraceful period in our history we effectively took it by force. However, how we got it doesn't change the facts about how we ran it. i.e. as a colony without any real form of democracy.
Grum +1
Here's my post from the wee hours of this morning repeated to back you up
Christ what a load of utter PISH!!!!This was about a cop who appears very much on the face of it to have over stepped the Mark by some degree, lost the rag and pushed a guy over, without any real justification. Guy has then sadly died.
Cop should face the criminal justice system and let a court decide his culpability. An earlier resolution to this might have helped preserve the reputation of the met a bit better?
But...
How the he'll did all this Chinese stuff start? And what in the hell raised the racism aspect?
Fer cry in out loud get a grip!
Edit, been watching this one for a bit, been trying so hard not to bite, but what the hell. Any posts by me is usually the kiss of death for the topic anyway
Nickquinn293 still trying to get the last post on the thread?
did i ever say i was a communist? nope i did not. China is a communist country, which was put me off, but after seeing it i thought very differently. Thats the point i was making.
So basically you don't support the Maoist interpretation of Marxist-Leninism nor its adulation of Stalin. Not from the point of view of a socialist, but from the point of view of a committed anti-socialist.
There is however one thing which you deeply admire about China, and that's how repressive it is. You admire how they brutally crush all opposition and dissent with everything at their disposal, including extrajudicial killings. You think we ought to learn from the Chinese and celebrate the fact that a copper killed Ian Tomlinson, rather than condemn the perpetrator.
Now the question which needs be asked is whether you are a troll or have some sort of mental health issues. Since your contributions don't appear to be winding anyone up, and the most that can be said is that a few people appear to be somewhat bemused by your farcical assertions, this would represent a pretty poor troll. I'm therefore leaning towards the probability that you have some mental health issues. Am I right ?
crankboy - Member
Nickquinn293 still trying to get the last post on the thread?
Nope I am...
Chinese thing apart, seems to me that despite the fact that a very dodgy pathologist threw a major spanner in the works by completely misdiagnosing the cause of I.T's death the system has worked and the checks and balances that are in place are leading inexorably toward a situation where the proper outcomes look likely, despite that appalling situation with Fred the Dead. I'm rather hoping that further offshoot from this will be the General Medical council reveiwing the validty of the diplomas and degrees that they accept.
He's still not answered the question about the irons. Make of that what you will.
despite the fact that a very dodgy pathologist threw a major spanner in the works by completely misdiagnosing the cause of I.T's death the system has worked and the checks and balances that are in place are leading inexorably toward a situation where the proper outcomes look likely
😕 erm, I don't think it's the "checks and balances that are in place" which are leading inexorably toward a situation where the proper outcomes look likely. I think it's the fact that someone who witnessed the incident happened to have a camera.
"the system has worked" despite Nonesence post ages ago it didn't though there was a significant clouding of facts or cover up. The official version in the first few days was:-Tomlinson had no contact with any officers, cctv did not capture any of his movements, Tomlinsons medical treatment was hampered by protesters and bottles were thrown at medics treating him, the family accepted it was natural causes and were upset by speculation.
All of this was demonstrably false and was coming out when officers on the spot were telling their line managers they had seen the incident with Harwood. As i recall it the police version of natural causes was fed to the pathologist prior to the first autopsy.
The system only stared to work when the home movie was passed to the Guardian.
No I don't think you will find thats correct ernie the pictures were in the public domain when the decision was made not to prosecute the copper. The reason being that it would not be possible to make a direct link between the events leading to his death and a heart attack. Subsequent pathological reinvestigation shows the cause which I believe is internal bleeding is very likley linked to the coppers behaviour. Thats why there is now a case against the copper. Furthermore, the copper was subject to internal disciplinary action, once the outcome of the criminal investigation was complete. As I understand it the liklihood being that at the very least he would have been dismissed. So actually its got nothing at all to do with someone having a camera and everything to do with the checks and balances in the system.
binners - Member
He's still not answered the question about the irons. Make of that what you will.
biners i cant be arsed with racists!
Is Binners a racist??? 😯
I've always suspected this...
how about folk who are sarcastic ?
