I'm fed up of Facts!!! "Give us Facts" cry out the stupid ones. "We need to be told how to vote with facts". "Their Facts are better than your facts". "I dont believe his facts".
Its a load of rubbish. There are no facts. We are talking about the future. So therefore those Facts have not been created yet. Everything else is conjecture. Please engage your brains and decide on the important issues, the big picture.
Europe will be different in the future with or without us. There is no Status Quo. You can not vote for more of the same. Europe is traveling in a direction you need to think about that and give the future of this Country serious thought.
The problem is that I know very few people who can think complex issues through clearly. So therefore the quality of the debate has been poor
Not every vote leaver is a racist. But every racist is going to vote leave. Billy Bragg
Sums the whole debate up for me
Joe, I find it quite strange for the magazine to publish such a piece with a limp attempt to link the areferendum to mountain biking.
If they had wished to publish something it should IMO have had balanced views from both sides
The front page poll is 80% Remain and 14% Leave so perhaps they feel the piece is representative of its readership. What the poll does show is that the readership is very much not reflective of the country more broadly
Not every vote leaver is a racist. But every racist is going to vote leave. Billy Bragg
Well if you hate black people, Indians, ****stanis, Asians and Latin Americans voting Remain will ensure it stays harder for them to come to this country.
Bollocks would it - they aren't going to make it easier for those people to come in, they've been making it harder. And the conservatives will continue to make it harder.
richmtb - Member
Reason 7: It'll really annoy THM
But really please JambalayaHmmm...
I guess I'm now undecided
Tres amusant 😀
Not every vote leaver is a racist. But every racist is going to vote leave. Billy BraggSums the whole debate up for me
But is it actually true?
If we stop all these white Europeans coming over to do our menial jobs isn't it going to mean that we are going to have to once again rely on black people from places like India and Africa?
Who would you prefer to clean your house.......a nice white Polish girl, or a big black Jamaican?
If I was a racist I'd be in quite a dilemma. If there's one thing that can be said about the EU is that it tends to keep black people out of the UK.
Not every vote leaver is a racist. But every racist is going to vote leave. Billy Bragg
Sums the whole debate up for meBut is it actually true?
If we stop all these white Europeans coming over to do our menial jobs isn't it going to mean that we are going to have to once again rely on black people from places like India and Africa?
Who would you prefer to clean your house.......a nice white Polish girl, or a big black Jamaican?
If I was a racist I'd be in quite a dilemma. If there's one thing that can be said about the EU is that it tends to keep black people out of the UK.
You forgot to start this with I'm not being racist but.....
Racist people are, essentially, stupid people.
Society won't allow them to hate black people (at least in public), but there's nothing wrong with being "concerned about all these EU migrants".
For many people, this "concern" about migration is a proxy for being racist.
Also, I work in the care industry, about 30% of our staff are from Africa, I don't think being a member of the EU has any bearing on the amount of Africans in the UK. This doesn't stop most of the white British staff talking to the Africans (many of them doing masters and Phd's on student Visas) like they are idiots though.
Not sure about what point i'm making, but I agree with Billy Bragg.
You forgot to start this with .......
I didn't forget anything. So......would a racist prefer a nice white Polish girl or a big black Jamaican to clean their house?
What do you think? I'm not sure.
tedious?
the only thing that's been tedious has been the complete and utter BS in the mainstream press and on farcebook etc.
actually quite refreshing to read something that talks about how some thing may or may not be affected.
now as a Brit, making good use of EU freedoms, when it is decided that I am no longer eligible to do my job, I have 2 choices...
1. go back home and steal all your jobs
2. go back home and claim benefits while surfing STW all day
which shall it be?
You forgot to start this with I'm not being racist
EU freedom of movement is fundamentally racist, it selects based purely on nationality.
I have no doubt whatsoever that ernie is not a racist, he was making a point
What do you think? I'm not sure.
your guess would be far better qualified than mine.
I didn't forget anything. So......would a racist prefer a nice white Polish girl or a big black Jamaican to clean their house?
Is the choice only between racist stereotypes?
I didn't forget anything. So......would a racist prefer a nice white Polish girl or a big black Jamaican to clean their house?
I think the racists you're referring to don't want either, but can only publicly complain about one of them.
Blah blah yadda yadda I N R A T S jumped to end of thread for a belated Chapeau for PercyPanther's brakesit.
Oh, and French rubber. Obvs.
I think the racists you're referring.........
What racists am I referring to? Racism includes all sorts of racists, including the Poles who come over here and complain about black people, black British people. And they think that because I'm white I'll agree with them.
Personally I think that some of the pro-EU sentiments stinks of racism.
Personally I think that some of the pro-EU sentiments stinks of racism.
Please explain, Ernie. I've been struggling with a lot of the stuff on this thread but here I'm completely lost.
Nothing to explain really. Some people have a problem with black people from hot countries but not quite the same problem with white non-British EU nationals.
And if I don't have a problem with either am I still allowed to be pro-EU?
Vote stay if you like your foreigners with whiter skin. (there are no black european people obvs)
Vote Leave if you like foreign people with darker skin...........Hang on
If you are not a massive racist just vote based on whether you think Europe is alright or not.
And if I don't have a problem with either am I still allowed to be pro-EU?
I don't know ask Billy Bragg. He seems to think that he knows how people vote depending on whether or not they're racist.
Personally I'm not convinced his formula is quite as foolproof as some people apparently think it is.
But that's just my opinion, perhaps he's right.
EU freedom of movement is fundamentally racist, it selects based purely on nationality.
You do know there is a difference between Race and Nationality?
It's a bit like the difference between being Anti-Semetic and not approving of Israel's treatment of Palestine, subtle but very important.
Unfortunately Billy Bragg is now a curmudgeonly old **** who will take any opportunity, no matter how obtuse, to shoehorn his dogmatic view in. He is rapidly becoming a self-parody, the 'lefty' David Starkey. No matter what the context they bang the same old drum.
This is a shame. I really love 'A New England'.
Swings and roundabouts.
Joe is either on the naughty step, or mummy and daddy have sent him to bed and switched off the router
So anyway back to this magazine's supposed agenda. Judging by the current poll, the view of the readers hasn't changed much since the campaigning started.
This is Marks fiefdom, he will and does put whatever political slant on stuff that he wants to. It would have carried a bit more credibility if he had put both sides of the argument forward, perhaps such as price increases from German websites resulting in more people buying from their LBS but he didn't, such is his right.
No point complaining, nobody is forcing anyone to read the published opinion stuff.
You do know there is a difference between Race and Nationality?
I'm sure someone could say stuff about the UK's race relations act including far more than just race.
OP - It's probably something to do with the bicycle being the vehicle of choice for sensitive leftwing types, due to it's environmental credentials. MBR ran a similar type article last month and frankly it gets up my nose.
For all of us mountain biking is our hobby and as such political propaganda from either side should be kept well out of it.
the bicycle being the vehicle of choice for sensitive leftwing types
Well these don't look like sensitive leftwing types to me
[img] 
[/img]
They look pretty tough to me - going out on their club run in that sort of weather.
Plenty of gels in those boxes.
Plenty of gels in those boxes.
Sportive riders = NAZIS!
We have proof.
at least they're wearing helmets.
Aero jackboots, too.
But please for the kittens' sake don't mention the size of the wheels.
[img] 
[/img]
Is that the Hugo Boss 'Blitzkrieg' collection?
Very, erm, authoritative.
Could someone please add a Diverge with mudguards to that photo?
Ta.
[b]7 Reasons Brexit will be good for Mountain Bikers[/b]
1) With an economy refocused away from a stagnant Europe business is booming with British companies prospering leading to increases in wages = the 2 new bikes you wanted, Brexit n+2
2) By distancing ourselves from the collapse of the euro post Greek default and contagion to Italy and Spain the value of the pound has soared making European bike holidays substantially cheaper (visa free of course) as well as just about everything else.
3) With a new trade deal signed with Asian nations including Taiwan and Japan the cost of bike parts has fallen, also aided of course by a stronger pound. We've also signed a electric car technology deal with Japan and are reaping the benefits of cleaner air with the government offering trade ins for highly polluting VW's (paid for after huge fines levied on cheating manufacturers). No more maks when commuting.
4) With Europe in economic distress Spain and France are offering British business development loans to encourage inward investment leading to an increase in bike holiday companies setup by entrepreneurial Brits eager to enjoy a change of lifestyle
5) Without the overhead of the EU bureaucracy our local manufacturers are thriving to produce products tailored to our domestic market including superior British weather optimised bikes at lower prices free from irrelevant EU regulations
6) Free of artificial tariffs on coffee STWs are enjoying superior brews from around the world for that pre and post ride fix
7) Due to increased immigration from India, Asia and Latin America we are relishing the superior dining options as well as increased cultural diversity giving us a revitalised forum with many new perspectives
All tongue in cheek of course but no less likely than the STW advertorial
ernie_lynch - MemberWell these don't look like sensitive leftwing types to me
Ve invented das mountain bike with der pass stormingtroopers!
They look pretty tough to me - going out on their club run in that sort of weather.
Armed to the teeth too!
EU freedom of movement is fundamentally racist, it selects based purely on nationality.
Of we leave you will select who can freely live here based on where they were born except the area is not the EU but just the UK.
Essentially what you want is a more racist policy , as you will have even less nationalities allowed to freely live here
Essentially your own argument is to be even more racist as this will be less racist.
Please stop trying to pretend your immigration policy is not racist - your own logic makes it the most racist of the two options.
He seems to think that he knows how people vote depending on whether or not they're racist.
Well, he's not as clever as he thinks he is.
Stalin & Hitler were on opposite ends of the spectrum, neither were none too kind on those that weren't considered ethnically acceptable....
mrlebowski - MemberStalin & Hitler were on opposite ends of the spectrum, neither were none too kind on those that weren't considered ethnically acceptable....
Both would probably have voted exit though. Not that they weren't in favour of european integration, just, not this version.
Armed to the teeth too!
Well you never know when you might come across a yappy dog.
Both would probably have voted exit though. Not that they weren't in favour of european integration, just, not this version.
CHuckles
Both would probably have voted exit though. Not that they weren't in favour of european integration, just, not this version.
To the contrary both believed in European integration, with them being in charge obviously - appointed not elected. Sound familiar 😉
Edit: beaten to it by Northwind 😳
