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It’s fine if there’s no ads loading, ie by subscribing 😉
Constantly crashes on my iPhone11 and iPad. It’s been so bad recently I’ve been using pistonheads more and more which is rock solid by comparison. I prefer it here so hope it gets fixed soon, but not worth the bother when it crashes every few minutes.
Try a different browser.
Ah I did realise that STW needed its own ‘special’ browser
I’m happy with the browser I have, which works fine with 99.9999% of websites, in fact apparently all bar one !
Which eludes to the fact it’s STE that’s the issue, not the browser
Strangely not crashed yet in the last 30 seconds of browsing this morning
I pay. It's fine.
In fact, I'll say what I reckon most folks at STW probs want to say but are too polite. If you can't be assed to pay the teeny amount for a site run by mountain bike enthusiasts for mountain bike enthusiasts then who cares if your experience is a bad one, I certainly don't.
Nickc - that does appear to be the attitude of the owners, it’s an odd business model to piss off potential new customers but so be it
I think many of us are actually trying to point out they are loosing revenue by making their website not useable.
I don’t know many business that work on the basis of making your experience so shot you feel compelled to spend money with them 🤣
it’s an odd business model to piss off potential new customers but so be it
The business model is producing a bike magazine that's published every other month. I doubt anyone that's complaining on this thread about how crappy the free model of the supporting website is, is a "new customer"
I think many of us are actually trying to point out they are loosing revenue by making their website not useable.
I'll bet my Sub is more than the revenue they get from people clicking through ads who don't pay a sub, so in many ways I'm subsidising your browsing habit. You're welcome
I don’t know many business that work on the basis of making your experience so shot you feel compelled to spend money with them
Nearly every web version of most newspapers, Nearly all enthusiast magazines, facebook, the list is probably endless
Think I unsubscribed a while back when things stopped working (some other issues)
Will give it another go but I don’t see why the non-paying crew should put up with random crashes and pages reloading etc.
If they’re happy to tolerate adverts saving £2.50 p/m that’s okay with me, but the forum should still stand up okay.
it’s an odd business model
Singletrack is 21 years old now isn’t it? Seems to be working?
but I don’t see why the non-paying crew should put up with random crashes and pages reloading etc.
I don't get those issues, I don't see why I should care that you you do, but aren't prepared to contribute to the upkeep.
What “upkeep”?
What “upkeep”?
Do you think everything here you don’t pay for costs nothing to produce or keep running?
Nearly every web version of most newspapers, Nearly all enthusiast magazines, facebook, the list is probably endless
Not to the same extent by a country mile.
They probably don't host on WordPress though!
Do you think everything here you don’t pay for costs nothing to produce or keep running?
And those costs might be way less if there was no advertising 😬
Same as Haze here, was a subscriber but gave up when things started getting sluggish on my iPhone.
It's almost unusable since, so nothing to even warrant me subscribing again, can't be great to get new subscribers.
Appreciate there is a cost involved to keep the lights on but it's the only forum I visit of about 10 that has these issue as a free member.
I do pay, Just if I want a quick look at the forum join the day on my phone I don't want to have to keep signing in constantly as I've been signed out just for a quick browse.
But as others have mentioned it won't be the site's fault that it crashes it's everyone's phone that's at fault. STW is happy to shove its head in the sand and ignore everyone similar to when people moaned about the new classifies. When people talk about selling stuff now hardly anyone mentions this site it's always Pink Bike, Facebook, or eBay.
I doubt anyone that’s complaining on this thread about how crappy the free model of the supporting website is, is a “potential new customer”
FTFY
I could imagine that if someone surfs across to STW to find out about their new MTB hobby and happens to be using an iPhone they'd go elsewhere and never become a customer. Also that an evil freeloader would surf away before his clicks generated enough ad-sourced bitcoins for the STW politburo, or before he had contributed an informative post about tyres to lure future revenue units - sorry, I mean "valued customers" to the site.
And those costs might be way less if there was no advertising
I think Mark has repeatedly said that it would take something like 8000-10000 subs to keep the site ad free.
Singletrack is 21 years old now isn’t it? Seems to be working?
Except for the last 6 months the website has t worked if you use an iPhone worked fine before that
When ads were brought in here, we were clearly told ads pay for the forum, subscription pays for the magazine content. I don’t like magazine content for reasons I’ve previously stated so why pay for something I don’t want
IMO It's not that they advertise, after all, it's a business they have to make money, it's the amount and type of adverts that crash the site that people are moaning about.
Will give it another go but I don’t see why the non-paying crew should put up with random crashes and pages reloading etc.
If they’re happy to tolerate adverts saving £2.50 p/m that’s okay with me, but the forum should still stand up okay
This. I appreciate the financial challenges of running something like this, but there's no reason the basics of the site shouldn't work as a free member. I've subscribed in the past, currently lapsed, I'm not sure issues with the site are much of a positive encouragement to renew.
Plus the frequent crashes must actually be counter-productive in terms of ad views / click-throughs.
You've all reported the problems you're experiencing, yes?
I think Mark has repeatedly said that it would take something like 8000-10000 subs to keep the site ad free.
I don't remember the cited figure but when Mark told me I remember being astonished at how low it was. I don't think you're a million miles off.
When ads were brought in here, we were clearly told ads pay for the forum, subscription pays for the magazine content.
That's before my time but if true I've never heard that said. I'd be amazed if it were still the case today, ringfencing funds like that makes zero business sense. This is almost the "you don't pay road tax" argument.
I pay, and on the odd occasion I read a mag article it’s great. But mostly I pay to keep the forum going - content provided for free by paying and non paying users.
The drop off in forum activity over the last couple of years has me questioning whether to keep paying though. Surely some of the drop in activity is due to free members not enjoying the ad heavy slow site, so not posting and sticking around? It seems a bit mad that more isn’t done to make the new user experience better, or at least stop making it worse!
I wonder how the conversion rate now compares to a few years back when the forum had higher rates of activity and a better experience for non members?
Well frankly I'm amazed it took as long but nickc got here eventually.
I think Mark has repeatedly said that it would take something like 8000-10000 subs to keep the site ad free.
That being the case, why are you being such an arse about folk who "pay their way" more than someone who doesn't see the ads?
I don’t see why I should care that you you do, but aren’t prepared to contribute to the upkeep.
I don't see why I should care when the forum gets shut down if you're not prepared to push for a better website.
Just remember who the 'freeloaders' are.
Just remember who the ‘freeloaders’ are.
"Freeloaders" aren't the Free Members. The people who run ad blockers and yet still see fit to leap onto every thread whining about how shit everything is, they're the freeloaders and they're a boil on the arse of this site.
STW is a commercial enterprise. The price of membership is either a subscription costing the price of a coffee every month, or to agree to be served advertising which contributes towards keeping the lights on.
“Freeloaders” aren’t the Free Members.
I'd agree with that if the site was remotely useable with ads.
On a desktop, sure, but it is a massive memory hog (I'm running a Ryzen 5 with 16gb RAM and it's STILL a resource hog). On a mobile device all bets are off.
I can't recall anyone objecting to the ads as opposed to the disruption they cause, if they fix that then everyone is happy.
All that aside, it's pretty evident that whilst that's your opinion (which is fair even if I think it's flawed) not everyone agrees hence the inevitable stream of subscribers that come one these threads and tell the free members they have no right to complain.
hence the inevitable stream of subscribers that come one these threads and tell the free members they have no right to complain.
Or alternatively, reveal to them the magical solution to the issues they're always having.
Again: have you all reported it?
I sympathise, I do, and I disagree with the sentiment expressed by some that you should feel obliged to subscribe. The user experience of the forum could be better and I'd love it to be so, but the uncomfortable truth is that the developers are thinly stretched and have a day job. The last time I saw it, the road map for changes for the forum alone was like two years long.
I do however rankle a little at prolific posters who are here day in, day out, who are boasting about how they deny the site the fractions of pence that advertising gains and are encouraging others to do the same. You can't have it both ways.
What's a digital sub, two quid? You wouldn't get a movie rental for that. Should you subscribe because your UX is poor if you don't? Of course not. Should you subscribe because the hours and hours you spend here is worth a nominal contribution? Well...
kelron
Free MemberIt’s fine if there’s no ads loading, ie by subscribing
My experience is that it was still flakey when I was a paid up subscriber. Nothing seemed to be improving, so I stopped paying. Apart from a few more ads, it’s still the same. I don’t run an ad-blocker on my phone FWIW.
Have a look at the Mig Welding or Motorhome Fun forums if anyone wants an example of what decent forum software can be like (you could pick almost any forum and there’s a 90% chance it will function better than this one).
It’s all been said before though…
Have a look at the Mig Welding or Motorhome Fun forums if anyone wants an example of what decent forum software can be like
im willing to bet 50p of anyones money that those forums don’t get anything like the daily traffic this one does, and if they did, they’d fall over.
Motorhome Fun forum
Is that a 'specialist' forum!? 😀🤔
im willing to bet 50p of anyones money that those forums don’t get anything like the daily traffic this one does, and if they did, they’d fall over.
I'm pretty sure they're both roughly similar / higher traffic than here (but I can't find the stats for this forum):
MHF:
Threads: 248,296
Posts: 4,677,336
Members: 54,670
MW:
Threads: 99,058
Messages: 1,888,266
Members: 33,598
I've just noticed that they both use the same Xenforo software - starts at $160.
EDIT: YBW forum is another that just "works" and happens to use the same software:
Threads: 570,052
Messages: 7,881,989
Members: 165,191
Is that a ‘specialist’ forum!? 😀🤔
**VERY** 😉
There’s over half a million threads on here, according to the forum overview
In fact, I’ll say what I reckon most folks at STW probs want to say but are too polite. If you can’t be assed to pay the teeny amount for a site run by mountain bike enthusiasts for mountain bike enthusiasts then who cares if your experience is a bad one, I certainly don’t
The problem is when it’s still awful for paid up members. Who subsequently cancel their membership. Which is what i did.
So yeah, you may not give shit about my experience, but ultimately stw are now without my cash so I’m surprised that they don’t
I’m pretty sure they’re both roughly similar / higher traffic than here (but I can’t find the stats for this forum):
Do any of these forums incorporate a magazine subscription, an online magazine, classifieds and various articles on their subjects. Do they have the same amount of traffic each day?
FYI, I've made some adjustments to our ad delivery to optimise for user experience over revenue. Those changes happened late last night so I'll be monitoring the results to see if we can ease things.
I particular I focused on mobile delivery. eg. I've removed completely the ad at the top of the page on mobile. This one I reckon gets really ignored as we all scroll down pretty instantly - it's also a candidate for the page jumping occasionally while it loads.
The problem is when it’s still awful for paid up members. Who subsequently cancel their membership. Which is what i did.
Same here.
Do any of these forums incorporate a magazine subscription, an online magazine, classifieds and various articles on their subjects. Do they have the same amount of traffic each day?
They all have classifieds / for sale & wanted ads. (Very active on YBW)
MHF, especially has extensive articles & an on-line magazine that are only available to subscribers.
YBW is associated with a series of print magazines (Practical Goat BonerBoat Owner, Yachting Monthly, Classic Boat, Yachting World, etc..) and has articles on its website, separate from the forums.
My impression is that they all get more posts per day than here - certainly on a par.
I thoght that there might be a site somewhere that had these sort of stats, but haven't found one as yet.
My impression is that they all get more posts per day than here – certainly on a par.
Are you sure as they seem to be that they only get a few per day?
Well whatever got tweaked last night seemed to do the trick, for me at least, not a single crash today. It was pinch to zoom that was particularly problematic, instant crash before, doesn’t do that for me anymore.
Fingers crossed it's an improvement. Tomorrow at 5pm I'll see the revenue impact. Hopefully it's not anything significant.
Are you sure as they seem to be that they only get a few per day?
Just done a manual count since midday yesterday:
YBW 110 updated threads (may be multiple posts per update)
MW 80 updated threads (may be multiple posts per update)
MHF 110 updated threads (may be multiple posts per update)
STW 126 updated threads (may be multiple posts per update)
STW is busier than I thought, but not dramatically so. Certainly in the same leage as some of the other forums.
STW is busier than I thought, but not dramatically so. Certainly in the same leage as some of the other forums.
You are aware it’s not just about post counts and more about unique visits?
Or alternatively, reveal to them the magical solution to the issues they’re always having.
So if we all subscribed what then?
Oh, wait, no forum. Because adverts are life apparently (not being sarcy). Your argument doesn't stand up, even before you account for ex-subscribers and their reasoning.
I’ve just noticed that they both use the same Xenforo software – starts at $160.
I've nominated that in the past and got shot down for it. I can see why it's unattractive, the site is a proverbial birds nest that would require a lot of untangling and just gets kicked down the road.
Skyscrapercity is probably the biggest forum going but doesn't have intrusive ads, no idea what their unique visit count is like though, I bet it dwarfs this place.
@drac most of them do offer image hosting though, rather than freeloading off someone else's servers 😉
@mark any chance of the floating google banner at the bottom either disappearing or becoming much easier to remove once you've seen it? That's my biggest beef and takes up a huge amount of screen space once you take an address bar and on screen keyboard into account.
That's the biggest earning ad spot on the site. I could remove it but then I'd be making several people redundant as a result - it genuinely does earn that kind of money.