The age old conundrum with fighting body count wars that probably shouldn't be fought in the first place. When one side has to obey the 'rules' and fight with one hand tied behind their backs, but the other can, and will, do what the hell it likes. Probably being deliberately brutal to illicit a brutal response that is a PR disaster for the side that actually has to answer to someone. No army to fight as such, no line to break or territory to 'win' as such.
If any British soldier is found to have committed a war crime, he will, most likely, face some consequences. That is just and right. But what about the afghans who (certainly in the days of the Russian misadventure) would skin their prisoners alive, probably after using them as concubines for a few months? The fact that they were aided and abetted by the west at that time is irrelevant before anyone obviously mentions it. Many afghans have committed heinous crimes, where is their court martial?
Two wrongs don't make a right, but I for one would be very wary of being critical of anyone who has served in that vipers nest that is Afghanistan. Very easy to take the moral high ground when you haven't spent months not knowing if the next person you see might just shoot you in the back.
Have you got the polo shirt esselgruntfuttock ?
I'm rather encouraged by the fact that those we hand guns to are expected to uphold the law.
dannyh, you have just put in words what I was trying to put over.
You can have presence of mind and still be under pressure and suffering from stress, they did the the £$%^& a favour he wasnt going to around much longer after being struck by a round from an Appache. Its just a shame they didnt have the presence of mind to turn the camera off or just leave him to a long death until he heads to meet the 72 virgins that I hope end up being 80 year old nuns
that is twice ernie......tut tut tut.
You can have presence of mind and still be under pressure and suffering from stress, they did the the £$%^& a favour he wasnt going to around much longer after being struck by a round from an Appache. Its just a shame they didnt have the presence of mind to turn the camera off or just leave him to a long death until he heads to meet the 72 virgins that I hope end up being 80 year old nuns
I think your reasoning is becoming clear to now. It's gone from "walk a mile in their shoes" to "they did the [expletive deleted] a favour."
Charming.
What a strange thing to say ton. Still, I'm sure you know what you meant.
bearnecessities - MemberThis England?
I like to think I can decipher sensationalism, but still..
The punishment should be "Taken".
😡
p/s: The rule of war is written by the winner.
that is twice ernie......tut tut tut.
Do you have the t-shirt too ton? Navy/black would be rather fetching on you I reckon.
Why is the west's enabling of a load of nasty bastards 'irrelevant'? Seems a bit of a cop out to me.
[I]Have you got the polo shirt esselgruntfuttock ?[/I]
Not that one but 2 others. Dark blue with the prison service crown logo on the left breast. I only wear them when on night shift or C&R training. Is it relevant?
Well of course it's relevant ! I posted a picture of a polo shirt with a slogan and you responded by saying that you agreed with it. Why wouldn't ask if you owned one ?
Yep pretty clear what I've written but just remember theres a past, a history, a build up to actions and reactions and mistakes that get made not everything is as black and white as you read it in the papers
A past and a history..
Indeed Afghanistan, without doubt one of the poorest nations on Earth, invaded and brutalised by foreign devils for thousands of years.. I think I'd be a bloody vipers nest too in their shoes.
who was that brainy bloke who said, all is fair in love and war?
You want to shoot your missus ?
Yunki.
I agree entirely. It's just that the injustices of thousands of years would not be the first thing on my mind if I was in a firefight in Afghanistan.
Context is everything, you don't get more visceral context than active service in a guerrilla war.
no ernie, just terrorists.
Surely, the best thing we can do, if we really are the bigger man, is say look 'ere fine fellows, you boys have had the shitty end of the stick for about as long as anyone should ever have to bare..
You must all be absolutely broken, why don't you all just sit back and chill out for a bit.. Live the dream.. And as long as you promise to be gentlemanly with your Chiquitas (the prettiest women on the planet remember) then we will watch your backs for a few thousand years, buy your beers (well, sweet teas probably) and all that and make sure that you get everything that you need..
You crazy little bastards have hung in there against overwhelming odds, repelling superpower after superpower.. You deserve a rest Afghanistan..
Are we really the bigger man though?
I very much ****ing doubt it, silly little boys every last man jack of us
Well it wouldn't be fair to shoot the missus, would it. So not all's fair in love and war. No idea who said it but it's a pretty dumb thing to say.
it is only dumb cos you don't agree with it innit ernie. like anything you don't agree with, simply dumb.
To be fair "All's fair in love and war" is exactly how the terrorists justify their atrocities.
Sorry I thought we all agreed - that it wouldn't be fair to shoot the missus. OK, fair enough.....it's a valid point and not dumb at all.
"All's fair in love and war"
I don't understand this ^^^ ... 🙄
There is nothing about fair or unfair in war, you exterminate your opponents and rewrite the rules in your "image". My advice is go for all out war by nuking everyone to kingdom come ... reduce maggot population.
As for love ... thou shalt not look at others' properties ... 😆
crankboy - Member
To be fair "All's fair in love and war" is exactly how the terrorists justify their atrocities.
Yeah, but, um.
I'm still unaware what we are doing in Afghanistan, aside from bravely shooting wounded soldiers for a laugh whilst trying to hide away from the Geneva convention,
The only thing its achieved as far as I can tell is to add many billions to the national debt and motivate a group of lads from Yorkshire to blow themselves up on the underground
ton - MemberNext thing, they'll be putting newspaper editors in the dock just for listening to people's phone messages. It's political correctness gone mad.
whoa....some slimy bastards get what they deserve....
Posted 56 minutes ago #
the sun etc do it a little bit = slimy bastards.
government does it wholesale = i'm sleepin good tonight.
something passed between soldiers in the battlefield is one thing. soldiers recording it on their go-pro and keeping it for posterity is another entirely.
kimbers - MemberI'm still unaware what we are doing in Afghanistan, aside from bravely shooting wounded soldiers for a laugh whilst trying to hide away from the Geneva convention,
The only thing its achieved as far as I can tell is to add many billions to the national debt and motivate a group of lads from Yorkshire to blow themselves up on the underground
[b][i]"A war begun for no wise purpose, carried on with a strange mixture of rashness and timidity, brought to a close after suffering and disaster, without much glory attached either to the government which directed, or the great body of troops which waged it. Not one benefit, political or military, was acquired with this war. Our eventual evacuation of the country resembled the retreat of an army defeated"[/i][/b]
That was the conclusion of British army chaplain G.R. Gleig after the First Anglo-Afghan War of 1839 - 1842.
If nothing else no one can accuse us of inconsistency.
Ernie...the polo shirt & the slogan on the badge (on it) are 2 completely different things.
Just to clarify..I agree with, 'no surrender to al-qaeda' (why wouldn't I/we?)
So, just so you get it, I own 2 polo shirts neither of which have that logo on but I agree with that logo.
Must say though, you win the wind up merchant of the decade award. 😉
They do matching ski-wear too.
Well the Soilders were not acting within the regs, but until you have walked a mile in there shoes then then you shouldnt really be passing judgement
Does that apply to every murderer, or just the ones employed by the armed forces? What a load of shite.
Must say though, you win the wind up merchant of the decade award.
Why thank you, that means a lot to me and is much appreciated. Although I haven't a clue what you are talking about. I posted a picture of a polo shirt and you said you agreed with the slogan printed on it. It seemed reasonable to ask you if you had one. I'm not sure why you think I'm winding you up. Perhaps you're winding me up ? 💡
perhaps you are talking shyte ernie.
perhaps you posted the pic for another reason?
[i]On 2 June 1982 during the war between Argentina and the UK over the Falkland Islands, approximately 1,200 Argentine POWs were being detained in a sheep shed at Goose Green on East Falkland Island.
Concerned about piles of artillery ammunition near the shed, the prisoners asked for and obtained permission to move it a safe distance away from them.
Unfortunately, as several of them did so, some of the ammunition exploded, possibly due to booby traps set earlier by Argentine soldiers to kill British troops. Three POWs died and nine others were badly burnt. A British medic at the scene, Sergeant Fowler, assessed one of the still burning men to be fatally injured and suffering horribly, and shot him to end his misery[/i]
War crime?
ton - Memberperhaps you posted the pic for another reason?
Another reason to what ?
oh I think you know ernie....you being such a clever bloke.
War crime?
Did he have laugh with his mates as he did it and ask them to keep quiet about it as he'd broken the Geneva Convention? What do you think Zulu?
War crime?
Is there an ongoing court martial with regards to that case Z-11 ?
What a thoroughly dispiriting and unpleasant thread. Have a word with yourselves.
I agree crikey.....and on that note, sorry for starting it, and offending anyone, but we all have different ideals and thoughts on stuff.
I am out. 😀
I am out.
Well there's a surprise. 😆
Ernie
A subsequent military inquiry concluded that no war crime had been committed. The other Argentines wounded in the explosion and fire were treated and evacuated, one of them had to have both legs amputated, and died on the operating table. The Regimental Signals Officer who witnessed the event and spoke in court stated, 'I remain convinced that Sgt Fowler acted in the best of motives, so as to alleviate human suffering'
I've read of accounts from Argentinian witnesses who said the medic was a hero for doing what he did.
ninfan "Prisoners of war shall not be unnecessarily exposed to danger while awaiting evacuation from a fighting zone."art 19 geneva convention .
so arguably yes a war crime to have them doing the work in the first place.
Shooting an unsaveable man burning to death is an act of humanity so that bit not.
What a thoroughly dispiriting and unpleasant thread. Have a word with yourselves.
Quite! When I read the title I didn't expect it to be quite so literal
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