There's alcohol in fags? Clearly I'm missing out.
was that at me ninfan? Yep alcohol is an addictive poison aswell and bringing it back OT, as has already been said, I'm not allowed to get pissed in the office even with the [i]very[/i] low chance of passive imbibing.Like alcohol?
(and no one here is asking for alcohol or vaping to be banned anyway, controlled yes banned no - or atleast I haven't seen anyone suggesting a ban)
D0nk, You intimated that consumption of addictive poisons was de facto unhealthy
I reckon you've never heard of hormesis
aracer, anisyl alcohol is a common additive in cigarettes....
I tried to make some liquid infused with some weed last week, unfortunately, I got too stoned while doing it and feel asleep half an hour before I was supposed to take it off the heat and nearly burnt the house down! A shame wasted a decent amount of weed! 😆 Next time!aracer - Member
There's alcohol in fags? Clearly I'm missing out.
ooh cheeky ninja edit while I was typing up a reply 🙂D0nk, You intimated that consumption of addictive poisons was de facto unhealthy
Hormesis well I know the word now, thanks. Yeah a glass of red a week may help prevent heart disease I'm sure that's why we in the UK have got such a healthy relationship with alcohol and bugger all heart disease. Thing is great swathes of the population tend to overdo their drug/substance of choice be that caffeine, fags, booze, THC, codeine, take your pick, so outside of the "beneficial" dosage anyway.
I'm not allowed to get pissed in the office even with the very low chance of passive imbibing.
Are you allowed coffee in the office? Caffiene is a poisonous addictive drug.
Thought it made my point clearer, sorry.
Thing is great swathes of the population tend to overdo their drug/substance of choice be that caffeine, fags, booze, THC, codeine, take your pick, so outside of the "beneficial" dosage anyway.
Sugar, pies, telly etc. too
Thing is that basing 'control' let alone prohibition on the fact that something might be overused/abused by some is of, at the very least, questionable effeciveness, a classic case of making the many suffer because of the actions of the few
The issue is of course not whether e-cigs or nicotine is theoretically poisonous, because nearly everything is, the question is whether there is any demonstrable harm to users, or even a realistic likelihood of harm (let alone passive users, whose exposure is magnitudes lower) - if there is, then of course controlling them is valid, however at the moment there is no evidence to that effect and we're stuck in a trap where people are calling for them to be regulated (at work for example) because they look like something that is banned, so must be dangerous (actually dangerous, not containing theoretically poisonous things, because as said, everything does and we are all exposed to low levels of poisonous things daily without batting an eyelid) which is just bonkers.
government takes in £12.3billion a year from smokers.
[url=
POLICYEXCHANGE.ORG.UK to cost the UK £14Bn.[/url]
Cost to UK "society", not actual cost. Note that this figure has been "calculated" by a couple of blokes who have estimated smoke breaks FFS.
I call strong BS on that entire "report" and I don't even smoke.
Caffiene is a poisonous addictive drug.
touche.Sugar, pies, telly etc. too
The problem with nicotine is (IMO) it's roots in smoking and all the underhand and immoral shite* that happened in the past, the jury is still out on the health impacts directly and passively but I'm disinclined to give vaping the benefit of the doubt.
*I'm not saying other industries are whiter than white
Off the top of my head I notice that it doesn't factor in pension savings from people dying younger in it's final calculations.Drac - Moderator
government takes in £12.3billion a year from smokers.
Esitmated to cost the UK £14Bn.
Not a particularly convincing report.
Nice jump you've made from 6 billion to 14 billion though! 😆
It's against our worldwide corporate policy to use an e-cig in the office.
Didn't stop a contractor puffing away on one last week though.
Nice jump you've made form 6 billion to 13 billion though!
No I didn't. They're different figures.
Off the top of my head I notice that it doesn't factor in pension savings from people dying younger in it's final calculations.
Not all of them do though as we spend £6Bn keeping them going.
I think we can agree that smokers largely cover the financial impact of their own health problems?Drac - Moderator
Nice jump you've made form 6 billion to 13 billion though!
No I didn't. They're different figures.Off the top of my head I notice that it doesn't factor in pension savings from people dying younger in it's final calculations.
Not all of them do though as we spend £6Bn keeping them going.
btw, I agree smoking is daft, there's a reason I switched to vaping! 😆
I think we can agree that smokers largely cover the financial impact of their own health problems?
Can we?
Drac - Moderator
I think we can agree that smokers largely cover the financial impact of their own health problems?
Can we?
Well the numbers seem to state they do.
[quote=seosamh77 said]I think we can agree that smokers largely cover the financial impact of their own health problems?
How did you work that out BTW ?
allthepies - Member
seosamh77 said » I think we can agree that smokers largely cover the financial impact of their own health problems?
How did you work that out BTW ?
(12 billion taken in tax + pension savings + normal health care costs that they would have used anyhow) - drac's dubious report =(suggests) that the cost is pretty neutral.
Nor the tax from the people employed by the tobacco industry, the suppliers (printers etc). Smoking is bad, I personally would be happy if it were banned outright. But it ain't a cost thing.
Well the numbers seem to state they do.
It costs the NHS £6Bn per year, so can you find the figures show the NHS gets over £6Bn from Tobacco?
[quote=seosamh77 said]
(12 billion taken in tax + pension savings + normal health care costs that they would have used anyhow) - drac's dubious report =(suggests) that the cost is pretty neutral.
Yeah, but how much of that tax take goes on healthcare ?
Drac - Moderator
Well the numbers seem to state they do.
It costs the NHS £6Bn per year, so can you find the figures show the NHS gets over £6Bn from Tobacco?
That's a governmental issue if they aren't passing it on to the NHS. Doesn't negate the fact that smokers pay enough for their health issues.
[quote=seosamh77 said]
That's a governmental issue if they aren't passing it on to the NHS.
😆
Well I suppose if ciggies were banned, we could have a smaller NHS so some savings could be made there.
[quote=allthepies ]Yeah, but how much of that tax take goes on healthcare ?
That's kind of like asking how much of the road tax is spent on building roads 😈
That's a governmental issue if they aren't passing it on to the NHS.
Ah that makes it Ok then. 🙄
Well I suppose if ciggies were banned, we could have a smaller NHS so some savings could be made there.
Or we would need a bigger one as people would live longer, with lots of pesky conditions like dementia that goes on for years instead of lung cancer that carries a depressingly short survival rate
Why is that funny? Smokers more than pay their way.allthepies - Member
seosamh77 said »
That's a governmental issue if they aren't passing it on to the NHS.
Drac - Moderator
That's a governmental issue if they aren't passing it on to the NHS.
Ah that makes it Ok then.
What do you want smokers to start paying for their healthcare? They clearly already do.
Or we would need a bigger one as people would live longer, with lots of pesky conditions like dementia that goes on for years instead of lung cancer that carries a depressingly short survival rate
Smoking is one of the high risk factors in the cause of Dementia.
We only smoked in the first place to annoy you, you know? It was always easily worth the early death to see the reaction it generally provokes in tutty, sanctimonious, whiny, middle class cockbags.
But now e-cigs can provoke the same kind of huffy, petty, holier than thou bleating, without the lung cancer, its a win/win 😀
So smoking causes trolling. Explains a lot.
seosamh77 - Member
I think we can agree that smokers largely cover the financial impact of their own health problems?
Except that if EVERY smoker stopped RIGHT NOW - it apparently will be 20+yrs before all of them will clear the health system with no income from smokers to cover it......
What does that fantasy have to do with the price of cheese? 😆hammyuk - Member
seosamh77 - Member
I think we can agree that smokers largely cover the financial impact of their own health problems?
Except that if EVERY smoker stopped RIGHT NOW - it apparently will be 20+yrs before all of them will clear the health system with no income from smokers to cover it......
I can sense your petted lip from here! 😆Drac - Moderator
So smoking causes trolling. Explains a lot.
drac at the moment: 
[img] 
[/img]
So smoking causes trolling.
Indirectly! 😆
btw, I agree smoking is daft, there's a reason I switched to vaping!
I think becoming addicted to nicotine is a bit daft.
I did spot a guy rolling up on the train this morning. That has to be the Japanese tea ceremony to Vaping's instant coffee.
That has to be the Japanese tea ceremony to Vaping's instant coffee.
More like hara kiri?
where do you get your nicotine extract and how reputable a source is it? (genuine question btw)
From a place in the UK (South wales)
UK manufactured and tested, so I'm happy it contains what it's supposed to contain, and in the correct amounts.
I mix it down to about 0.3% now so hardly any at all. Most shop bought mixes are labelled at around 1.2%-1.8%
I bet a lot of smokers wouldn't buy none-branded fags,
A hell of a lot are perfectly happy to buy fags off a bloke in the pub at crazy cheap prices, so that's exactly what they are buying.
I wonder if those buying vaping stuff are similarly careful about the sources.
Maybe not enough, but a lot of us are very careful yes.
BTW vaping may get people off cigarettes, bit specious to suggest they help people "quit smoking" tho, they are still addicted to nicotine and with the ability to inhale nicotine in places you didn't used to, it is likely to push peoples intake higher than ever.
I asked my doctor if he thought I should quit using mine, and he said he didn't see any urgent reason to.
Unless the nicotine was causing any issues, then (in isolation, and in controlled amounts) it's fine.
In his words... "It's the same advice I would give to someone asking about giving up coffee or tea"
I know some are but, anecdotally, most of my smoking friends wouldn't - a couple would but everyone else thinks they're daft "that stuff's dangerous" 🙂A hell of a lot are perfectly happy to buy fags off a bloke in the pub at crazy cheap prices
interesting..."It's the same advice I would give to someone asking about giving up coffee or tea"
nealglover - Member
In his words... "It's the same advice I would give to someone asking about giving up coffee or tea"
would be interesting to hear the singletrack doctors chipping in on this argument. I've never asked a doctor myself, as I've not been near one in years. But anyone i know that has has similar experiences, doctors don't seem to have a bad opinion of them.
What @seos says, my gf's doctor is far happier with her vaping than smoking the real things
What @seos says, my gf's doctor is far happier with her vaping than smoking the real things
[img]
STATIC.GUIM.CO.UK whilst we await the full details of effects of vaping several years down the line, it would be difficult for it to be more harmful than smoking so no great surprise there. Dr not being bothered about patient then giving up vaping was what interested me - but then again, as we've discussed, pretty much everything is harmful.What @seos says, my gf's doctor is far happier with her vaping than smoking the real things
Side note, what does everyone use for pub based calculations now everyone is vaping?
smartphone?
